Lawyer Table Saw TV Ad

[Kev]

If you don't understand or believe what sawstop claims their device does, I don't know what to say. 

Maybe that the the correct point to stop your story ...

Be happy with your own opinion and your own amazingly safe leap up and protect you from alien invasion saw stop.

If someone doesn't share your opinion and sees a different future potential you shouldn't feel so threatened - tough luck, honestly.

Let's all hope for the sake of your fellow US citizens that claims against "should have had" safety mechanisms don't spiral out of control and force local only product manufacture and consumption of highly expensive "safety" tools.

As for your little "too smart" comment goes, no - I'm just not so stupid as to EXPECT someone else to provide me with safety, then have the luxury of engaging a lawyer if I still screw up.

 

[Kev]

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/45040/stephen-colbert-takes-the-sizzle-out-of-sawstop

... slightly old and the video isn't available to me - but I found the many comments to the post very interesting.

 

[peter halle]

Hey,

There are many factors going on in the whole Sawstop / tool safety / product liability/ mandated / my rights / international differences / aspect here that won't be solved thru our posts here and we shouldn't be making any of this personal. 

 

[upscale]

As much as I dislike "ambulance chaser lawyers" I am interested in the Saw Stop Table Saw.  How many users have experienced false positives where they blade goes into safety with wet wood?

People keep asking that question and it's a non sequitur as far as I see it. How many woodworkers cut wet wood on their tablesaws? I never have. When I buy my wood at the lumber yard, I buy dry, stable wood that isn't going to significantly warp after I bring it home.

But, just for your information, a friend of my bought a SawStop a number of months back. He's a professional woodworker and has put a number of hours on his saw. He has yet to experience any incident that causes the saw to brake.

In the end, the safety feature on the SawStop can be turned off in the event that you might be cutting something that would cause a false positive. And, I'd be using a moisture meter on any wood that I suspected was wet.

 

[bruegf]

People comparing a saw stop to a seat belt need to think a little broader ... I wear a seat belt because there are so many morons on the road drinking coffee and chatting on the phone that can kill me. I'm not afraid that someone will come into my workspace, take the guard off my saw and push my hand into it. I know NOT TO PUT MY HAND NEAR A FAST SPINNING BLADE.

Yep, so similar to the arguments about seatbelts, "I'm a safe/better/smarter/you name driver than everyone else on the road and I don't need someone telling how to drive safely" and all the other absurd arguments.  Contrary to your statement the similarities are amazing.  And maybe you are smart enough not to text while driving, but I'm guessing even you will answer your cell while driving, and that alone makes you more accident prone.  Since I don't know if you do or don't EVER answer your cell while driving, good for you if you don't.  In that case you are one in a million.

Anyone that thinks the correct approach to workshop safety is to mandate saw stop or make it viable to sue a table saw manufacturer for not offering saw stop technology should also think it necessary to ban bandsaws, spindle moulders, planers, etc ... they're all dangerous tools if handled incorrectly. Just like guns! (which I personally think should have DNA encoding to the owner to prevent anyone else ever firing them ... and that on every weapon in existence - a minor expense!).

People are always the weakest link in safety, if we weren't, no safety devices would be required for any technology.  Mandating seatbelts did not eliminate or reduce accidents, it just increased the odds of surviving them.  Mandating brake technology (and I'm not a fan of mandating it) will reduce the number of serious accidents, but it won't prevent any.  I don't want it mandated, but I wanted the extra insurance enough to pay for it.  Its no different than buying home owners, auto, life, or medical insurance.  Like the brake technology, none of those prevent bad things, but reduce the impact if they do happen.

I don't really care - I don't live in the US, but can't you see what you're doing here?

Based on the number and intensity of your posts I find it very difficult to believe that you "don't really care". 

Fred

 

[Motown]

Hey,

There are many factors going on in the whole Sawstop / tool safety / product liability/ mandated / my rights / international differences / aspect here that won't be solved thru our posts here and we shouldn't be making any of this personal.  

I do think there is value in discussing these types of issues here because, for my part, the FOG has influenced many of my purchase decisions. As a musician/guitar player I think about my fingers when I am hammering a nail, let alone cutting wood and the SawStop was very interesting to me for that reason alone. That said, I am going in a different direction because professionalism and the way a company conducts itself means something to me. By all accounts the SawStop seems like a great saw but there are other options out there.

Now, if I could just think of a company that SawStop could look too as an example: one that innovates amazing tools, conducts itself professionally, works its *ss off to deliver great customer service and as a result is able to ask for and get a premium price..........where would I send them?  [tongue]

 

[peter halle]

I agree that posting here can be beneficial.  Hot topic for sure.  I was just trying to say "let's not get personal if someone else's thoughts and opinions vary from our own."

Happy Posting!

Peter

 

[Paul G]

bruegf, seems to me the only way the cellphone while driving analogy applies is if someone is going to use their cellphone while using a table saw. There's probably some moron who would especially with the advent of bluetooth headsets but it is his/her fingers at risk and not my own.

Before this thread I didn't know much about the history of the sawstop introduction to the marketplace.  I admire the innovation and no doubt it has prevented serious injury, in each case though I wonder how on earth did that person get their body on that blade. Only way I know is to ignore the rules of usage. Once the patent runs out on the technology I wonder about the long term viability of the brand. We likely will see comparisons of why xyz brake is better than abc brake, or maybe it will be simply a price war. More fingers of careless people will be saved but the consequence among some consumers will be a sense of security and complacency to good safety practices as people rely on the technology to protect them from themselves. The worst part then is when there is a genuine product failure and the brake fails to engage and the complacent person purposefully has their fingers far too close to the blade thinking it no longer matters since the tool will protect me and loses them. That jury will likely place all or most of the responsibility on the saw manufacturer (and any other wallets the plaintifs lawyer can mine) and stupid behavior is rewarded. Regardless it won't be long after general availability of the technology that it will be on a lot of other tools as well. My friend who was cutting a 2x4 with a circular saw and thought it convenient to rest the wood on his knee (sadly a true story) might just find a sympathetic jury willing to blame Skil for not putting a brake on those tools as well. I guess for me I'm just tired of the courts and legislatures pressing society into the mould of the lowest common denominator.

 

[greg mann]

People comparing a saw stop to a seat belt need to think a little broader ... I wear a seat belt because there are so many morons on the road drinking coffee and chatting on the phone that can kill me. I'm not afraid that someone will come into my workspace, take the guard off my saw and push my hand into it. I know NOT TO PUT MY HAND NEAR A FAST SPINNING BLADE.

Yep, so similar to the arguments about seatbelts, "I'm a safe/better/smarter/you name driver than everyone else on the road and I don't need someone telling how to drive safely" and all the other absurd arguments.   Contrary to your statement the similarities are amazing.   And maybe you are smart enough not to text while driving, but I'm guessing even you will answer your cell while driving, and that alone makes you more accident prone.  Since I don't know if you do or don't EVER answer your cell while driving, good for you if you don't.  In that case you are one in a million.
Fred

Kev, Please don't underestimate your own capacity to make a mistake.

 

[Kev]

People comparing a saw stop to a seat belt need to think a little broader ... I wear a seat belt because there are so many morons on the road drinking coffee and chatting on the phone that can kill me. I'm not afraid that someone will come into my workspace, take the guard off my saw and push my hand into it. I know NOT TO PUT MY HAND NEAR A FAST SPINNING BLADE.

Yep, so similar to the arguments about seatbelts, "I'm a safe/better/smarter/you name driver than everyone else on the road and I don't need someone telling how to drive safely" and all the other absurd arguments.   Contrary to your statement the similarities are amazing.   And maybe you are smart enough not to text while driving, but I'm guessing even you will answer your cell while driving, and that alone makes you more accident prone.  Since I don't know if you do or don't EVER answer your cell while driving, good for you if you don't.  In that case you are one in a million.

Anyone that thinks the correct approach to workshop safety is to mandate saw stop or make it viable to sue a table saw manufacturer for not offering saw stop technology should also think it necessary to ban bandsaws, spindle moulders, planers, etc ... they're all dangerous tools if handled incorrectly. Just like guns! (which I personally think should have DNA encoding to the owner to prevent anyone else ever firing them ... and that on every weapon in existence - a minor expense!).

People are always the weakest link in safety, if we weren't, no safety devices would be required for any technology.  Mandating seatbelts did not eliminate or reduce accidents, it just increased the odds of surviving them.   Mandating brake technology (and I'm not a fan of mandating it) will reduce the number of serious accidents, but it won't prevent any.   I don't want it mandated, but I wanted the extra insurance enough to pay for it.   Its no different than buying home owners, auto, life, or medical insurance.  Like the brake technology, none of those prevent bad things, but reduce the impact if they do happen.

I don't really care - I don't live in the US, but can't you see what you're doing here?

Based on the number and intensity of your posts I find it very difficult to believe that you "don't really care".   

Fred

Well Fred, as difficult as you find it, I really don't care - it honestly has little real impact on me - but I am amused. Blatant exploitation does get me momentarily on edge, but I get on with it and look for ways to entertain myself.

We'll circle back to seat belts ... seat bets are a very small part of a car ... the saw stop mechanism is a major part of a table saw. Don't know if you remember the introduction of seat belts, but they didn't double the price of a car. Just to be clear, wading a seatbelt while answering your phone doesn't protect the child you just ran over or the cyclist that you nudged off the road.

When it comes to texting while driving ... they're the very people I would love to see exit the gene pool (but that is heading off topic somewhat).

Back on saw stop - I have no problem with you wanting it, based on US table saw accidents it could only a matter of time till you have an accident if you use one ... but will it be body part in blade accident or some other form of injury?

I really hope saw stop doesn't bring about complacency when it comes to safety ...

You know, when you drive a car today, everything is automatic - not much to do ... big safe lump of metal, air bags, seat belts, cruise control, so why not pick up the coffee cup take a sip and turn round and look at the kids ... what's the risk?

... maybe because that's when things go wrong - like when a police woman driving a 4WD turned to look at her kids and drove through a red light and wrote off my niece's Toyota Tarago and permanently disfigured 4 of her 5 children. THANK YOU SEAT BELTS, you kept them nicely in place as they were squashed and mangled. But why do you think it happened?

...

Here's a more primal question for you to consider ... should you feel safe when you're doing something that has serious elements of danger? or does the fear keep you alert and focused?

 

[duburban]

As much as I dislike "ambulance chaser lawyers" I am interested in the Saw Stop Table Saw.  How many users have experienced false positives where they blade goes into safety with wet wood?

People keep asking that question and it's a non sequitur as far as I see it. How many woodworkers cut wet wood on their tablesaws? I never have. When I buy my wood at the lumber yard, I buy dry, stable wood that isn't going to significantly warp after I bring it home.

But, just for your information, a friend of my bought a SawStop a number of months back. He's a professional woodworker and has put a number of hours on his saw. He has yet to experience any incident that causes the saw to brake.

In the end, the safety feature on the SawStop can be turned off in the event that you might be cutting something that would cause a false positive. And, I'd be using a moisture meter on any wood that I suspected was wet.

I have access to a woodshop that has a sawstop. It has tripped by non human flesh 4 times. It happens on dense exotic woods. Blades are destroyed each time…

 

[Theshipstore]

Here's a more primal question for you to consider ... should you feel safe when you're doing something that has serious elements of danger?    NO
or does the fear keep you alert and focused?   YES

My thinking is that no matter what we do, drive, jog, bike ride, work with our tools we need to be aware of our surroundings and what we are doing at all time. I always believed at the end of a day being with family is the only real thing that counts so...

Be Aware of what you do.  Off track maybe but on track for me

 

[woodie]

If you don't understand or believe what sawstop claims their device does, I don't know what to say.  The information is out there, they aren't hiding how their device works. There is even a discovery channel video out there with the owner feeding his finger into one of his saws.  I suppose it's possible he paid off discovery channel and rigged the whole thing...maybe.

If you watched the Discovery video I'm guessing you saw the part where he soaks his hands in water for a few minutes before testing the saw. Not sure when the last time was I did that before using a table saw... Not saying I would want to test it on my own finger, but how is what he did any more real world than a hotdog.

 

[stvrowe]

I don't own a Sawstop and probably never will although I have used one in a woodworking class and have seen multiple demonstrations of the actuation first hand at both the IWF and AWFS shows.  The actuations I have seen are not slowly pushing a hot dog on top of a board into the blade.  They are feeding it as fast as the wood can be cut.  The results I have witnessed leave barely a mark on the hot dog skin.  I have absolute confidence the technology works as advertised.  Having both used and inspected the Sawstop, it is also a fine and well constructed machine.  I would have no reservations about purchasing one and if I was in the market for an American style cabinet saw, the Sawstop is what I would purchase today.

With respect to the ad, I just don't see much difference between this ad template and the dozens of other ads we see all the time that are actually aired - everything from social security disability denials, to some particular drug or other medical device.  It is just some lawyer or law firm hoping to make a big strike and make a lot of money by suing companies that they perceive as having deep pockets.  I have yet to see any evidence that Sawstop is behind this ad template and until we do, it is unfair to blame them for developing a technology that actually makes saws safer despite how it makes their competitors appear.   What I find most disgusting, is the American legal system that more often than not fails to recognize the role of personal responsibility in these cases.  There is always some level of assumed risk in whatever we choose to do.  If you wish to go bungee jumping and injure/kill yourself, don't expect to be successful in a lawsuit against the retailer who sold you the rope and the manufacturer of the rope because the rope was too long.  I would personally like to see the loser of a lawsuit be responsible for all legal and court fees of the party that prevailed.  That would put an end to a lot of this nonsense.

 

[Kev]

People comparing a saw stop to a seat belt need to think a little broader ... I wear a seat belt because there are so many morons on the road drinking coffee and chatting on the phone that can kill me. I'm not afraid that someone will come into my workspace, take the guard off my saw and push my hand into it. I know NOT TO PUT MY HAND NEAR A FAST SPINNING BLADE.

Yep, so similar to the arguments about seatbelts, "I'm a safe/better/smarter/you name driver than everyone else on the road and I don't need someone telling how to drive safely" and all the other absurd arguments.   Contrary to your statement the similarities are amazing.   And maybe you are smart enough not to text while driving, but I'm guessing even you will answer your cell while driving, and that alone makes you more accident prone.  Since I don't know if you do or don't EVER answer your cell while driving, good for you if you don't.  In that case you are one in a million.
Fred

Kev, Please don't underestimate your own capacity to make a mistake.

Thanks Greg, I appreciate the thought.

I take massive precautions, i've seen too much in my life not to.

FWIW, I believe there's two kinds (broadly) of accidents ... avoidable and unavoidable. Hit by lightening (technically you could avoid being outside I suppose) would be generally unavoidable. We've probably all cut a finger or something with a sharp blade at some time, but even those, if you think hard about them, were probably avoidable' Lapses in concentration bringing about a slight misjudgement. Some things can go wrong, but safe practices mitigate risks.

 

[leakyroof]

I think the longer lasting question is how long till another type of technology or assembly that can be built into a woodworking machine is introduced. Saw Stop is one way to do it, there will be others, And more than just installed on Table Saws.

 

[leakyroof]

As much as I dislike "ambulance chaser lawyers" I am interested in the Saw Stop Table Saw.  How many users have experienced false positives where they blade goes into safety with wet wood?

People keep asking that question and it's a non sequitur as far as I see it. How many woodworkers cut wet wood on their tablesaws? I never have. When I buy my wood at the lumber yard, I buy dry, stable wood that isn't going to significantly warp after I bring it home.

But, just for your information, a friend of my bought a SawStop a number of months back. He's a professional woodworker and has put a number of hours on his saw. He has yet to experience any incident that causes the saw to brake.

In the end, the safety feature on the SawStop can be turned off in the event that you might be cutting something that would cause a false positive. And, I'd be using a moisture meter on any wood that I suspected was wet.

I have access to a woodshop that has a sawstop. It has tripped by non human flesh 4 times. It happens on dense exotic woods. Blades are destroyed each time…

. Was it different species each time, or the same?
I like working with Purpleheart, Bubinga , Afromosia and others . Would hate to have to disable the safety mechanism each time for any of the tropical woods that I work with .

 

[tbellemare]

I think the longer lasting question is how long till another type of technology or assembly that can be built into a woodworking machine is introduced. Saw Stop is one way to do it, there will be others, And more than just installed on Table Saws.

I think it already exists.

Tom

 

[leer]

That woman made me extremely angry.

She's an actress. I found her attractive but not very convincing.

This discussion got me thinking, are there as many accidents (per user) with sliding table saws compared to others. In other words are sliding table saws safer?
Saw stop is interesting technology. They developed it, and they deserve all the revenue they get from it just as Microsoft and Apple etc. do.
Tim

Right on!  I may have to go buy some SawStop stock.  You see, I am one of those greedy capitalistic pigs that loaded his retirement account with stocks from similarly greedy corporations that make obscene profits.

Although I bought a track saw last Fall, and can get by with my contractor-style saw pretty well, I do still plan to upgrade to a SawStop in the future.  I've used one and they are extemely nice.

I'll gladly give them my money.  I had a table saw accident 18 months ago.  I was fortunate and just lost the tip of my thumb.  I've regained feeling and most days do not think about it.  Until I go to my shop and decide I need to cut a piece of wood on the table saw. 

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

[off topic]

Leer,
Sorry to hear of your accident.  Would you care to describe how it happened and how you could have prevented it?  ...for all of us table saw users? Thanks.