six-point socket II
Member
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2016
- Messages
- 2,219
Hi everyone,
so I had an interesting problem to solve/ glue up to make.
Let's talk about an interesting glue-up - EPS & building panel (aka tile backer) - and how important testing and evaluation is when it comes to this stuff.
Given circumstances lead to a situation were I needed to glue 4mm building panels (aka tile backer) to an existing ceiling that was partly covered in EPS. Added difficulty, that layer of EPS had an unknown layer of paint/dirt and adhesive to it. Removal of the EPS would have resulted in another set of problems - therefore it was considered last resort if I couldn't find a suitable adhesive and process to make it work.
I needed to create a bond between a cementitious surface and the EPS, at best the adhesive, or by prior use of a primer, would penetrate the layer of paint/dirt but not dissolve the EPS - so it had to be solvent-free.
I had some 20mm thick building panel cutouts from another project that were suitable for testing and evaluation, additionally they do provide a great grip for an ultimate strength test.
The first test was done with my go-to adhesive that we're going to refer to as Adhesive 1 from here on now. It bonds nearly everything to anything - I encountered so far.
I glued my test piece with a liberal amount of adhesive to the EPS and additionally spread some of the adhesive on the EPS to see if there was any reaction.
Long story short: The adhesive bonded my test piece to the paint/dirt and upon a single pull ripped that layer off the EPS, leaving the EPS intact. Same for the spread adhesive, I could peel it off the EPS - removing the paint/dirt layer and leaving the EPS intact.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
Not that this was really surprising, but one can hope, right? It was clear now that the layer of paint/dirt is not a stable surface.
I contacted my supplier and got in touch with their adhesive/chemical experts. As usual the first option that came up was mechanical removal of the EPS, again that was my ultimate last resort for a couple of reasons. I told them I was in a "playful mood" and would consider testing anything with the slightest chance of success. Legal waiver *blah* ... Try what we are going to refer to as Adhesive 2 from here on now. Adhesive 2 is a high-tack variant with incredible high initial adhesion, still solvent-free.
Seeing how easily that layer of paint/dirt came off, I also had another idea for testing Adhesive 2.
I took two of my 20mm building panel cutouts and glued one simply to the EPS, the other one I glued exactly in the spot were I had ripped off the previous test piece and therefore the unstable layer of paint/dirt.
[attachimg=5]
As one can easily see, Adhesive 2 also bonded the test piece only to the unstable layer. However, where that layer was already gone it bonded perfectly to the EPS, penetrating but not dissolving it. Obviously ripping the test piece off was possible, but quite some EPS came with it. The bonding would be more than enough to keep my 4mm panels in place. Additionally the very high initial adhesion would allow me to install the 4mm panels without supporting/pressing them.
Adhesive 2, just like Adhesive 1, doesn't require a precisely finished surface and can fill voids to some extend. Additionally, over the fairly large surface squaring everything up is not really hard to do. So the idea grew to take down the paint/dirt layer off the EPS with a sander. I went for my DTS 400, highest setting and highest setting on my dust extractor. Didn't use mesh but paper, grit 120.
[attachimg=6]
What that did: The DTS basically vacuumed itself to the EPS, guiding it with two hands it would easily slide across the surface and take the layer of paint/dirt off, but not just by sanding it down, every now and then removing small chunks of that layer. That was great and ultimately the whole job took very little time.
I then primed the no-EPS/concrete part (red) of that ceiling area for use with Adhesive 2 and glued the panels to the "sanded" EPS with Adhesive 2 - and after a few days finished them with plaster.
Kind regards,
Oliver
so I had an interesting problem to solve/ glue up to make.
Let's talk about an interesting glue-up - EPS & building panel (aka tile backer) - and how important testing and evaluation is when it comes to this stuff.
Given circumstances lead to a situation were I needed to glue 4mm building panels (aka tile backer) to an existing ceiling that was partly covered in EPS. Added difficulty, that layer of EPS had an unknown layer of paint/dirt and adhesive to it. Removal of the EPS would have resulted in another set of problems - therefore it was considered last resort if I couldn't find a suitable adhesive and process to make it work.
I needed to create a bond between a cementitious surface and the EPS, at best the adhesive, or by prior use of a primer, would penetrate the layer of paint/dirt but not dissolve the EPS - so it had to be solvent-free.
I had some 20mm thick building panel cutouts from another project that were suitable for testing and evaluation, additionally they do provide a great grip for an ultimate strength test.
The first test was done with my go-to adhesive that we're going to refer to as Adhesive 1 from here on now. It bonds nearly everything to anything - I encountered so far.
I glued my test piece with a liberal amount of adhesive to the EPS and additionally spread some of the adhesive on the EPS to see if there was any reaction.
Long story short: The adhesive bonded my test piece to the paint/dirt and upon a single pull ripped that layer off the EPS, leaving the EPS intact. Same for the spread adhesive, I could peel it off the EPS - removing the paint/dirt layer and leaving the EPS intact.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
Not that this was really surprising, but one can hope, right? It was clear now that the layer of paint/dirt is not a stable surface.
I contacted my supplier and got in touch with their adhesive/chemical experts. As usual the first option that came up was mechanical removal of the EPS, again that was my ultimate last resort for a couple of reasons. I told them I was in a "playful mood" and would consider testing anything with the slightest chance of success. Legal waiver *blah* ... Try what we are going to refer to as Adhesive 2 from here on now. Adhesive 2 is a high-tack variant with incredible high initial adhesion, still solvent-free.
Seeing how easily that layer of paint/dirt came off, I also had another idea for testing Adhesive 2.
I took two of my 20mm building panel cutouts and glued one simply to the EPS, the other one I glued exactly in the spot were I had ripped off the previous test piece and therefore the unstable layer of paint/dirt.
[attachimg=5]
As one can easily see, Adhesive 2 also bonded the test piece only to the unstable layer. However, where that layer was already gone it bonded perfectly to the EPS, penetrating but not dissolving it. Obviously ripping the test piece off was possible, but quite some EPS came with it. The bonding would be more than enough to keep my 4mm panels in place. Additionally the very high initial adhesion would allow me to install the 4mm panels without supporting/pressing them.
Adhesive 2, just like Adhesive 1, doesn't require a precisely finished surface and can fill voids to some extend. Additionally, over the fairly large surface squaring everything up is not really hard to do. So the idea grew to take down the paint/dirt layer off the EPS with a sander. I went for my DTS 400, highest setting and highest setting on my dust extractor. Didn't use mesh but paper, grit 120.
[attachimg=6]
What that did: The DTS basically vacuumed itself to the EPS, guiding it with two hands it would easily slide across the surface and take the layer of paint/dirt off, but not just by sanding it down, every now and then removing small chunks of that layer. That was great and ultimately the whole job took very little time.
I then primed the no-EPS/concrete part (red) of that ceiling area for use with Adhesive 2 and glued the panels to the "sanded" EPS with Adhesive 2 - and after a few days finished them with plaster.
Kind regards,
Oliver
