Lightweight drawer box material/method?

[Nick86]

Hello all, new poster here. Thank you all for helping create this terrific resource.

I am in the planning stages for a large bedroom built-in mostly consisting of various sized drawers. For a variety of reasons, weight is major consideration. Before figuring out the carcass, I'd like to tackle the drawer box design because that is the bulk of the build. The drawer dimensions will range from ~15" to ~30" wide, from ~6" to ~12" high, and in all cases 15" deep. They must be able to contain light to moderate weight household items (clothing, etc.). I'm looking for the lightest materials which a small, traditionally outfitted workshop can hope to use for these drawers.

For drawer box construction: I have in the past used 9mm (~3/8") baltic birch for the sides of drawer boxes that were slightly smaller in dimension than those called for here. In that application, I used a captured 6mm BB bottom glued in the dado, and glued butt joints with two 4mm through dominos on each joint. (I note this thread on similar work: Post). I found the drawers to be quite sturdy, even if still relatively hefty. I did get minor tearout when cutting the through dominos (perhaps 1 in 10 had the issue), which was frustrating but manifested for me regardless of plunge direction and patience. Despite this, the overall effect was still quite nice, even if imperfect.

Does anyone have experience with alternative materials or methods of constructing sturdy drawer boxes of this size? Any alternative material to the high weight of BB? I can't imagine going down to 6mm for this size, but has anyone tried, and if so, what is the joint? Any Confirmat experience with thin ply? I'm open to outside the box, off the wall, or really anything this great group has to offer as far as material and methods go.

I'm fresh out of ideas and am close to settling on a repeat of my 9mm/through domino version, so I'm hoping someone has something to toss out as an option. Thanks in advance.

 

[ChuckM]

"I did get minor tearout when cutting the through dominos (perhaps 1 in 10 had the issue)"

Tearout on the show face/side? Maybe mask taping the joint/surface before mortising it would help. Try it on some scraps.

 

[afish]

personally, I wouldnt use less than 1/2" so cant help you on that but I used to build exposed domino drawers a bit BB likes to tear out easy and if you are using thin stock as you say that only leaves a couple of mm between the edge and the domino then yea thats going to be extra tough.  In that case you might be better off not doing exposed dominos.  The tape does help and very slow plunge. You could also put some THIN CA glue on the areas where the dominos pass through. just check if it messes with your planned finishing process on some scrap first. but the CA should help a lot just let it soak in and once dry it should help a lot and slooow plunge with a sharp bit.

 

[Packard]

I never weighed them, but Blum Tandembox drawers are probably lighter than sold wood construction.

Not my first choice for drawers, but cedar is very light.  I never cut dovetails in cedar, so I don’t know how it machines.
https://www.google.com/search?q=blum+tandembox+drawer+slides&client=firefox-b-1-m&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjLydLB-OL8AhXAkYkEHU0MDbQQ_AUoA3oECAEQBQ&biw=1121&bih=714&dpr=2#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:e8b212d5,vid:b5jJdV0mOZ8

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
slow plunge.
Snip.

This, too. Let the cutter do its job.

Done on 5mm thick plywood with 4mm dominoes using the standard mortising techniques (no pre-taping):
[attachimg=1]

 

[Cheese]

Any drawers I make have at least 1/2" sides and for kitchen applications I prefer 5/8" sides.

For through Dominos I always use blue painters tape on the outside of the mortise especially when using ply. If I don't tape the entry point I'll get tear-out 40% of the time.

Here are some under-bed boxes I made and a closeup of the Domino connection.

And  [welcome]  to the FOG.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

 

[Packard]

I don’t see how dominoes adds to the lightness.  A domino joined drawer will be no lighter than a dovetail joined drawer. 

 

[ChuckM]

Yes, dominoes will add some weight, but inconsequential to the OP's drawers if he uses 4mm dominoes:

Each 4mm domino weighs 0.793 g, based on my batch. And that's 1.6 g per joint according to OP's plan.

[attachimg=1]

The weight of my corded mouse (excluding the cord) is about 50 grams, or the same weight as 63 no. of 4mm dominoes, which cater for 30 joints (or close to 8 drawers?).

The OP needs to assess if that additional weight is too much vs the benefits of loose-tenon joinery.

 

[Michael Kellough]

You have to deduct the weight of the Baltic birch that was excavated for the mortises. The net additional weight of the Dominos would be pretty close to nill.

 

[afish]

WTH, are we talking about here?  Are people seriously concerned with the weight difference between domino drawers and dovetails? are we planning on trying to launch this thing into outer space where every gram needs to be accounted for [blink] I didnt really understand the need to shave every possible ounce to start with. I mean seriously what are we talking about 5-8 pounds total for an average dresser going from 3/8  to 5/8 drawer box. I fail to see an issue unless the OP floor joists are made popsicle sticks...but we went off the rails debating the weight difference of a domino vs non domino drawer. [doh]

 

[Svar]

WTH, are we talking about here?  Are people seriously concerned with the weight difference between domino drawers and dovetails? are we planning on trying to launch this thing into outer space where every gram needs to be accounted for [blink] I didnt really understand the need to shave every possible ounce to start with.

Pro tip: you can further reduce the weight of dominos by drilling holes into them. I always do it for my outer space applications [big grin].

 

[Svar]

I am in the planning stages for a large bedroom built-in mostly consisting of various sized drawers. For a variety of reasons, weight is major consideration.

Look into Premcore Plus White Birch Plywood. It is 40% lighter than BB plywood because of light weight core. It's face quality is better than BB.

 

[afish]

WTH, are we talking about here?  Are people seriously concerned with the weight difference between domino drawers and dovetails? are we planning on trying to launch this thing into outer space where every gram needs to be accounted for [blink] I didnt really understand the need to shave every possible ounce to start with.

Pro tip: you can further reduce the weight of dominos by drilling holes into them. I always do it for my outer space applications [big grin].

That smart thinking right there. [not worthy] I had thought about perforating the box itself but not the domino... Have you done any G-force testing on the holey dominos?  We might be able to market them to NASA and charge 3-4 grand per domino.   

 

[Packard]

And then there is end grain balsa core.  At 9.7 lbs per cubic foot, the light-weight champ.  You will have to laminate a skin on both sides and perhaps use high strength adhesives for attaching hardware. 

A strength to weight ratio approaching graphite reinforced resin sheets. 

But perhaps we are delving too much into Colin Chapman’s realm (“simplify and add lightness).

I can understand trying to reduce the weight of drawers in your Air Stream camper, but why are we stressing out about it in the house?

As a final riposte, foam core with aluminum laminated on both surfaces has been used to produce truck trailer bodies.  Apparently rigid and light.  Impact resistance is suspect, but the strength should be very good.
https://www.lzpanels.com/aluminium-foam-core-sandwich-panels.html

 

[tsmi243]

Remind me to stay off Packard's lawn  [huh]

The question wasn't about dominos being lighter than dovetails- it was about how best to join lightweight (thin) material. 
It was a good (if strange) question, but it's getting a lot of dumb replies. 

Nick- for what I'm imagining in my own shop, I'd think 9mm is probably the practical minimum- and I don't know why I'd want to use less than 12mm.  Without knowing why you're trying to go thinner, it's hard to suggest what might work. 

Joinery- You can't use material thinner than the domino itself, so that's already putting a limit on that.  For something like 1/4" ply, dovetails or box joints will give you better results than pretty much any kind of fastener will.  But again, that's IF 1/4" will make a strong enough box for what you're doing. 

Other materials- it's hard to beat ply for strength-weight ratio.  I really doubt any kind of plastic will do it better.  Is sheetmetal an option?  Like a mechanics tool chest?

 

[Packard]

You can join 1/4” panels with very good strength by placing a full height triangular piece of 3/4” x 3/4” stock in each corner and along the bottom seams.  That is face grain to face grain glue-up with 3/4” x length surface.  Th joint will be stronger tha the material.

The question then becomes, “Is 1/4” thick plywood strong enough, or will I need to go to 3/8”.

1/4” will be strong enough for kitchen cabinet sized drawers. I don't know about wider drawers.

 

[ChuckM]

You can join 1/4” panels with very good strength by placing a full height triangular piece Snip.

Triangular braces add a lot of strength to a lot of things, and many antique furniture desks and dressers (but not drawers) rely on them.

This long drawer (5mm ply) uses braces to reinforce the 4mm domino joinery. The joint will outlast me (no matter how many times I pull the drawer out).

[attachimg=1]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I'm not entirely sure why we are concerned about the weight of drawers?

But I would add that once you get to the point of 30" wide drawers, it is very good practice to put the bottom grooves high enough to put a connecting strip of wood below the bottom itself. It doesn't have to be anything huge, a simple 2" or 3" wide piece that ties the front and back together. It strengthens the front and back both and supports the middle of the bottom, making it more like 2 smaller drawers. It keeps the bottom from sagging.

 

[ChuckM]

The OP says weight is a major consideration. Finished piece to be moved to somewhere that's not so accessible?

 

[afish]

The OP says weight is a major consideration. Finished piece to be moved to somewhere that's not so accessible?

If im moving large furniture that is difficult to move the first thing I would do is pull out the drawers and those cam be moved one at a time. so, I would not be concerned about individual drawer weight but more so the carcass weight.