Longer open time adhesive ?

[Bob D.]

Titebond makes a hide glue.

Application Guidelines
Application Temperature: Above 50°F (10°C)
Open Assembly Time: 10 minutes (70°F./50% RH)
Total Assembly Time: 20-30 minutes (70°F./50%RH)
Minimum Required Spread : Approximately 6 mils or 250 square feet per gallon
Required Clamping Pressure: Enough to bring joints tightly together (generally, 100-150 psi for softwoods, 125-175 psi for medium woods and 175-250 psi for hardwoods)
Method of Application: Can be applied by roller or dip spreader, pressurized oil cans, plastic applicators, brush or stick.
Cleanup: Damp cloth while glue is wet. Scrape off and sand dried excess.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
It's a definite possibility.  I could pre-glue all the tenons into the side pieces. Cuts the task basically in half.  I have a bit of play in the slots laterally (long direction).  My concern is that the loose tenons don't end up exactly in the correct position and then I can't align the "shelf" properly (in the long direction).  That would not be the end of the world - do a trial fit and if there is a problem then I would have to figure out which loose tenon was hindering final alignment and shave the end of that tenon a bit.  Or, just shave the end of all four tenons on that piece.

Assuming you used tight and wide (middle) width settings in cutting your mortises, you can glue tenons in all the tight mortises first, and those tenons won't move. If both mating mortises are cut in the wide setting (not common for me), my usual preference is place the tenon in the center of the mortise (eyeball). But in most of my builds, I use the tight to loose rather than the loose to loose combination.

 

[Packard]

I use Titebond’s pre-mixed hide glue for my cane panel installations.  Reversibility is the key reason to use hide glue for this application.

But the viscosity and flow of the hide glue makes it a pleasure to work with.  I can lay an entirely uniform line of hide glue.  I would not be able to do the same with PVA glue from Titebond. 

I have no personal experience regarding the strength of the bond.  I don’t think the door panels or seat panels need huge amounts of strength.  So far, all the bonds have held.

I get the glue from Rockler.

I install the cane panels after soaking them in water for 20 minutes.  I suspect that the moisture content lengthens the open time, but I have no data to prove that.

 

[deepcreek]

Just used some for the first time yesterday.

I normally use Titebond 3 but decided to give their hide glue a try on this project.

Highly recommend.

[attachimg=1]

 

[Packard]

Here is an article comparing hide glue with Titebond.  The author claims that the holding strength of both are about equivalent.

But he then goes on to say that PVA adhesives bond by penetrating the grain in the wood.  Hide glue bonds at the molecular level. 

That meant nothing to me until he explained that by bonding at the molecular level, hide glue will adhere to glass and metal rather tenaciously.

He makes other observations, including the reversibility advantage of hide glue and the waterproof capability of Titebond.  In any case, a short article and I found it interesting.
https://esomogyi.com/titebond-vs-hide-glue/

 

[Steve1]

UPDATE

I decided to pre-glue the tenons into the 3 "shelves" and give it a shot with the Titebond.  I did have to shave the ends of a few tenons after pre-gluing them, but that was minimal and very quick.

It was a real scramble, but I managed to get everything glued, positioned and clamped.  I even put glue on both the tenon and the mortise surfaces.  I had pre-stained panels and all of the interior.  It came out fine.  If you are wondering what the extra vertical rail is on the inside, its for drawer slide screws to land on.    Still need to make six drawers, a top, and a back. 

Next bottle of glue, I will probably try that Lee Valley Cabinet Maker's Glue.  An extra 5 to 7 minutes would have been very much appreciated.

Thanks to all for their input.

 

[Packard]

Lee Valley's Cabinetmaker's glue specifies 15-20 minute open time, but its a PVA glue so I wonder if its really any different than the Titebond.

When I had my picture framing shop we first used “white glue” (Elmer’s).  But probably in the early 1980s Framica came out with the first PVA glue for framers called “Corner Weld”. 

It was dramatically stronger than white glue and designed to glue end grain to end grain. 

For the longest time, I thought Corner Weld was stronger than other PVA glues for end grain applications.  But about a year ago I retested it and compared it with Titebond III. 

The strength was nearly identical for both.  Any differences could easily be blamed on imprecise execution on my part.

But one characteristic was significantly different.  When I glued up the Titebond pieces the areas to be bonded remained slick and wet for all the time it took to clamp the pieces.

But simply rubbing the areas to be bonded with the Corner Weld caused them to bond and grab within seconds of application. It is the nature of picture frame joinery that the joints only take seconds to join (using an underpinned), so this makes sense.

We could easily handle and finish a frame 10 minutes after glue-up (though my shop through put did not allow for that).

So I have come to believe that there can be significant differences in behavior for PVA glues.  Your own testing is the best way to discover those differences.

I still use Corner Weld for really simple glue-ups.  It is not as runny as Tite Bond III and I prefer that flow characteristic.