loss on the job price

[dirtydeeds]

today i finished making my first housed string staircase. yes it was a big loss on the single job (time and learning curve)

i dont care, it was worth every penny of the loss

i will never have to pay a joinery shop for a custom staircase again 

the figures say (after my investment in tooling ) that i can pocket some of the mark up that "a shop" charges ;D  ;D

materials and tooling purchases [the materials in this case tell you its paint and carpet quality work]

it was this quality of work that enabled me to take the risk and invest my time and money on a loss leader

1   sheet of 25mm MDF = treads
1   sheet 12mm ply = risers
2   18 foot lengths of PAR (planed all round) pine, finished size 216x32mm)= 2 strings, waste length gives the wedges
1   8 foot length of 3x2 cls for glue blocks
1   Litre of PVA glue
1   clip of 38mm 16 guage paslode nails ( glue blocks )
60 4x32 screws (8 guage 1~1/2 )
1   trend dovetail cutter [40 pounds english]
1   trend staircase jig [THE expensive item 150 pounds english]

labour

2 days including a BIG BIG learing curve (next time it will be half a day shorter, the time after that 10 hours or so)

tooling used

festool kit

TS 55 saw and guide rails (breaking down sheets)
OF1400 router (housing joints and rounding over the treads)
festool clamps
OFK500 router (strings)
MFT table
CS70 EB Preciso saw bench [the full set] for completing the breaking down of sheets, wedges and glue blocks

non festool kit used

trend 1/2 inch router (for the housing joints because it fits the trend staircase jig without adaption)
trend 1/2inch roundover cutter (tread nosings)
trend 1/2inch straight cutter (housing joints to underside of treads)
14 bessey K800 clamps (total staircase width including strings 840mm) [like they say you can never have enough clamps]
makita LS0714 (chopping various stuff to length) ................ i dont have a kapex  ???

normal hand tools

 

[dirtydeeds]

ps, even better

with good weather and a bit of of space you dont need a workshop

 

[bellchippy]

Well done Tom, stairs are a fun project .

I have made several staircases but never used MDF for treads, it just doesn't feel right

somehow, I can see the benefits no need to edge join to obtain the required width of tread,and also much cheaper

just a personal thing.

where are the pics 

 

[dirtydeeds]

for cheap staircases here in england

MDF treads are pretty well standard

and MDF risers are common

 

[Eastbourne Handyman]

Isn't it a great feeling to do something for the first time - and then discover how simple it is to do?
Well done on taking the plunge (no pun intended).
What prompted you to make it from scratch rather than buying one off the peg.
Have you got any pictures?
Hope you were wearing a face mask while routering the MDF!  I've got one somewhere but nearly always remember to use it after the event! 

 

[joiner1970]

for cheap staircases here in england

MDF treads are pretty well standard

and MDF risers are common

I have fitted loads of stairs with MDF treads but not seen any yet with MDF risers as you say here in the UK MDF treads are pretty much standard. Only thing I dont like about them is sometimes on winders the bottom edge of the nosing can split away in front of the riser as MDF splits easy on edge.

Just finished fitting two large solid oak stairs in two new build 3 storey houses, these had oak strings, posts, rails and spindles but mdf treads and ply risers this was all ok as originaly it was to be carpeted then the client asked the painter to varnish all the treads  : : :

As you can imagine it looks crap as you go up you might have 6 mdf treads (beige) then the winders are MR MDF (green) and the half landings are 18mm ply then back to normal MDF and so on, it wasnt designed to be seen  ??? the clients always right though  :

 

[dirtydeeds]

MDF. thats what i have a CT22 for   

i spent the extra on the hazardous dust version, it made it 'kin expensive but worth it

eastbourne, i was born there.

off the peg didnt fit, the cost of a custom one made, made making one, a no brainer

yes............. i know the bottom riser is shorter than the rest

and because i made it well, the bastd thing is a heavy mother..............

maybe reducing the amount of glue will make it lighter next time  :

a green and beige staircase...... 

i wont take odds on the guys misses TELLING him to get a painter and carpet fitter in, in the next couple of months

 

[dirtydeeds]

ill do things differently next time

i found out that MFTs are a bit short for gluing up staircases

now i KNOW why joinery shops have 18-20 foot benches for gluing up staircases

next time ill screw a couple of 18 foot 6x2s to the MFT with ply on top to give me a FLAT surface to build and clamp it onto

regardless of this my staircase strings are straight and "in wind"

they are only 10mm out of square, but ill sort that out when i fit them 

 

[dirtydeeds]

the stringers started 25mm out of square (not bad for being glued up on an mft)

but my 12lb sledge : sorted that out dead quick

 

[Rob Z]

Hi Tom, 

It's nice to tackle new work and learn how to take it on in the future.  I once helped a buddy who is a stairbuilder and handrail carpenter for about a week or so.  We built new stairs and installed handrail in the rectory of the church where George Washington had his funeral 200 years before. It was really interesting to work in an old building with historical significance. (I know you Brits scoff at 200 year old buildings, but around here that is an old one  ;D ).

 

[dirtydeeds]

supposedly, we scoff at buildings 200 years old

another myth, "we" isnt the vast majority of us

most of "us" live in buildings under 150 years old, "we" cant afford to buy or maintain the old ones

so that 150 years in england means................ we live in cowboy built built buildings

THE original cowboy builders were the the victorians and things havent got any better since

our worst period was the 1960s and 1970s, they are truly bad

what makes me laugh is people who live in victorian houses and say

"its ever so well built, compared with today"

pathetic 

i spend my time in buildings of this age, sorting them out

 

[Rob Z]

Hey Tom, 

I didn't mean to hit a nerve  I was making light of the fact that so many Europeans have told me that they grew up in or live in buildings that are many centuries old and they think our conception of what is old is kind of amusing to them.  I remind them not to feel too superior because the Egyptians have even older buildings.  ;D

We have a lot of junk here too, and it makes me cringe when I work in some of the dumps that I am in and know how much my customers paid for them .

 

[dirtydeeds]

my place was built in 1936, by welsh miners  :    i live in kent just about as far east as you can get from wales

im not rolling my eyes at them being welsh, its the miners bit

a catalogue of errors, ill give you just ONE error

the upstairs floor falls 1 and a half inches in 12 feet (the width of the house)

there is no settlement............  thats how it was built

 

[Rob Z]

Yikes!  We just finished a large job in one house, circa 1890, assessed at ~1 million, and the back of the house has settled almost 13".  Nice.

 

[Eastbourne Handyman]

Tom, what would you expect? The whole of Wales slopes either up or down. They have no concept of flat. All of their houses are built on slopes.  ;D

 

[dirtydeeds]

rob z, that is some sort of settlement

what sort of foundations were used?

eastbourne h, any idea when welsh haggis' become extinct?

 

[Rob Z]

Tom, I think the foundation originally was just rubble laid at depth with a masonry wythe setting on top.  Sometime later, the house was stabilized with a massive build-up of concrete in the basement.