Lower cost alternative to oak for table top?

[amt]

Hello.

I would like to make a breadboard style table top, roughly 30" x 84" x 2".  I do not have the capability or desire to mill my own lumber, so I'd like to stick to product already milled for me.  I was wondering if there's another wood that can stand the abuse of a breakfast table and usually costs a lot less than oak.  The top would likely be stained with a semi-transparent white, with just a little grain showing.  Would poplar be a good choice?  Anything else?  Thanks!

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Hello.

I would like to make a breadboard style table top, roughly 30" x 84" x 2".  I do not have the capability or desire to mill my own lumber, so I'd like to stick to product already milled for me.  I was wondering if there's another wood that can stand the abuse of a breakfast table and usually costs a lot less than oak.  The top would likely be stained with a semi-transparent white, with just a little grain showing.  Would poplar be a good choice?  Anything else?  Thanks!

Interesting post that raises a lot of questions!  When you say "stand the abuse of a breakfast table" are you talking about the table being structurally sound or resisting dents and scratches?  If its the first, then there are many woods that will work well.  Colonial furniture makers turned out a slew of pine tables with breadboards.  Poplar is a good wood, but it is softer than oak and will show dents more easily.

There are two schools of thought on making a table that stands up to dents and scratches: 1)find a material or a finish that is impervious to them (no wood that I know of is) and 2)live with the likelihood of dents and scratches by making your table easy to repair - which generally means a finish that you can sand off, make the repair, and replace the finish without redoing the whole table - typically a simple oil finish.

One concern, noting that you don't have the capability or desire to mill lumber, when you glue up your top, it is unlikely to be perfectly flat.  Do you have a means of flattening it?  Handtools work if you have the skill and time.  Otherwise, you might wish to search for a cabinet shop that will flatten it on a wide sander for you.

Sounds like a fun project - hope you will post lots of progress pics!

 

[mouppe]

I don't where you are located but where I am oak is the cheapest hardwood you can buy. Ash is also cheap and has a similar grain pattern.

Birch is cheap but rock hard to work.

As Jesse wrote, you may want to explore a hard finish on a softwood.

 

[jmbfestool]

Rubber wood?!!

 

[Tinker]

Many moons ago, my mom worked for a builder.  The carpenter foreman took an old pine door that had been removed from a remodel job. He cleaned it up and added pine "X" type legs and added oil and varnish.  He gave Mom the table when i rebuilt her kitchen.  That was in 1952.    many a party was held with great feasts.  Her oldest son (that was me) used to table for many small WW projects.  I fixed fishing equipment and shop tools on that table.  It got used for cutting game, fish and chickens (I raised poultry for several years), and many a thanksgiving/Christmas turkey or ham got sliced on that big table.  Of course, I used a good cutting board and plenty of protective paper over the table.

When Mom passed away in 2001, the table was still in near perfect shape even tho it had been used every day in her kitchen. There were a few dents here and there, but nothing of major consequence.  Our daughter took it to her own place.  I don't know where the table is now. Our daughter passed it on to one of her friends who had ample space to use and appreciate.  I think she did a refinishing job on it before letting it go.  If I had the space, I woud have kept it and probably would not have refinished.  Of course, i remembered where most of the dents (none very big) had come from.  :

Tinker

 

[amt]

Thanks for all of the replies!  I am in Austin, TX.  I don't have my notes on me right now, but I got some quotes on 2x4 and 2x6 red oak (really 2x3.5 and 2x5.5).  I'll report back what those prices were as soon as I can.  I guess I'll have to call them back for a quote on poplar and maybe a few other woods.  Honestly if the oak is not much more expensive than the alternatives, I will probably stick with it.

I don't think I will mind having to make minor finish repairs.  If I use just an oil paint, hopefully the repairs will be easy.  I would consider going with a simple clear finish, but I am not sure if the grain of the table will be "competing" with my wood floor (5" wide Ipe).  I kind of already have that problem with the wood floor and the kitchen cabinets, but those at least match up very closely (really by coincidence).  I have white baseboard trim, so I thought a white color would work OK on the table top.  I suppose worst case, I choose one finish option, I don't like it, and then I do a different finish.  Another excuse to get a Festool, this time a sander!  ;D

As for glue-up, I was planning on using a Domino to get good panel alignment for the top surface (my justification to get a Domino...).  I know this may not guarantee perfect alignment.  I do have one  odd option for DIY:  I have a quite large floor sander (RO, not the belt kind) which covers a really wide surface area, something like 12" x 18".  I might be tempted to make a few passes with it to see if I can achieve something acceptable,  If not, then I would probably have the top surfaced somewhere in town.

And, yes, I hope to post pictures of the progress.  After the table I would like to build a banquette for it.

 

[tbellemare]

Thanks for all of the replies!  I am in Austin, TX.  I don't have my notes on me right now, but I got some quotes on 2x4 and 2x6 red oak (really 2x3.5 and 2x5.5).  I'll report back what those prices were as soon as I can.  I guess I'll have to call them back for a quote on poplar and maybe a few other woods.  Honestly if the oak is not much more expensive than the alternatives, I will probably stick with it.

I don't think I will mind having to make minor finish repairs.  If I use just an oil paint, hopefully the repairs will be easy.  I would consider going with a simple clear finish, but I am not sure if the grain of the table will be "competing" with my wood floor (5" wide Ipe).  I kind of already have that problem with the wood floor and the kitchen cabinets, but those at least match up very closely (really by coincidence).  I have white baseboard trim, so I thought a white color would work OK on the table top.  I suppose worst case, I choose one finish option, I don't like it, and then I do a different finish.  Another excuse to get a Festool, this time a sander!  ;D

As for glue-up, I was planning on using a Domino to get good panel alignment for the top surface (my justification to get a Domino...).  I know this may not guarantee perfect alignment.  I do have one  odd option for DIY:  I have a quite large floor sander (RO, not the belt kind) which covers a really wide surface area, something like 12" x 18".  I might be tempted to make a few passes with it to see if I can achieve something acceptable,  If not, then I would probably have the top surfaced somewhere in town.

And, yes, I hope to post pictures of the progress.  After the table I would like to build a banquette for it.

Have you tried Dakota or Brazos Forest Products?

They can have some reasonable deals and good selection. They can also help out with milling. I know others that can solve milling problems quite reasonably.

Tom

 

[amt]

I have not tried either of those, but I will look in to them.  My quote for 2x4 red oak was $5.41 per lineal foot and 2x6 was $7.40 per lineal foot.

 

[atomicmike]

Have you considered going thinner on the top to help reduce the cost? Depending on the design, 2 inches could look too chunky, and would be quite heavy for a table of that size. As a gift for a friend, I built a dining table out of white oak with a 1" (or slightly over) thick top, 35" x 65". The top alone weighed close to 70 pounds, and the base was another 40+ pounds.

I doubt it will help much as a cost comparison, since I used rough-sawn lumber, and white oak is relatively cheap around me, but I believe I spent less than $175 on lumber for the table.

- Mike

 

[jmbfestool]

Rubber wood??? Any one rate rubber wood? 

It's what alot of cheap furniture is made of so must be cheap.

It's hard wearing.

 

[Kev]

We're seeing a fair bit of mango wood furniture down under. I'm not a great fan though.

The first furniture timbers that come to mind for me are oak and teak ... then everything else [smile]

 

[Mauri Motti]

Let me throw in a teaser too. All Oak boards milled on a 30 cm jointer and aligned with dominos. Sanded with Rotex 150.
[attachimg=#]

Regards,
Mauri

 

[BUTTER]

  If I use just an oil paint, hopefully the repairs will be easy.  I would consider going with a simple clear finish, but I am not sure if the grain of the table will be "competing" with my wood floor (5" wide Ipe).  I kind of already have that problem with the wood floor and the kitchen cabinets, but those at least match up very closely (really by coincidence).  I have white baseboard trim, so I thought a white color would work OK on the table top.  I suppose worst case, I choose one finish option, I don't like it, and then I do a different finish.    ;D

If you are going to paint, then maple will give you a better surface.

I have done some finishes lately with a "whitewash" WB-finish from General, esp on open-pore woods like oak and ash - wipe it on, wipe off, then topcoat with poly.  it looks like garbage on poplar, btw.

 

[amt]

Atomicmike, that's a beautiful table.  I have considered thinner material.  So far my only choices in S4S around here seem to be 3/4" & 1.5".  BTW I made a mistake about the thickness earlier.  It is actually 1.5 and not 2 inches.  I have been wondering if 3/4" would be strong enough....  Maybe I can build some extra support in to the legs (will have to be a trestle style since people's legs need to clear when they side in the banquette).

Mauri, that table is very nice!

As for rubberwood, I think my current table is made of that.  IMO there's nothing wrong with it, but I have doubts it would be much cheaper since it probably comes from far away. 

 

[amt]

I called back the lumberyard and asked for suggestions on a lower cost alternative.  They suggested Poplar 2x4@$2.83/ft and 2x6@$4.05/ft and Douglas Fir 2x4@$1.88/ft and 2x6@$3.00/ft.  I asked about how soft the Douglas Fir would be, and they stated certainly softer than the Oak, but harder than Pine.  I am leaning towards the Douglas Fir.

 

[thebicyclecafe]

Atomicmike, that's a beautiful table.  I have considered thinner material.  So far my only choices in S4S around here seem to be 3/4" & 1.5".  BTW I made a mistake about the thickness earlier.  It is actually 1.5 and not 2 inches.  I have been wondering if 3/4" would be strong enough....  Maybe I can build some extra support in to the legs (will have to be a trestle style since people's legs need to clear when they side in the banquette).

Mauri, that table is very nice!

As for rubberwood, I think my current table is made of that.  IMO there's nothing wrong with it, but I have doubts it would be much cheaper since it probably comes from far away.   

If cost is really important, you can do the center of the panel with 4/4 stock and either build up the edges or use 8/4 stock for the outer portions of the panel. This is quite often done with tabletops to save on lumber costs. Structurally speaking, with a solid base and minimal overhang, you will have no problem with the thinner stock. Visually speaking, 3/4" thick is a bit thin for a table top, so you definitely want to at least give the appearance of thicker stock on the visible edges.

Just a quick tip- while the domino will help with vertical alignment, and that will only go as far as your ability to edge joint the stock. If you can get this done at the lumber mill, or if you have a tracksaw, that would be critical in the success of your glue-up.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Poplar and Doug Fir are both good woods.  They do have their own personalities, though.  Poplar can have areas of green or purple coloring that may show through a light while stain - test first on a piece of scrap.  Doug fir needs care when sanding.  Parts are somewhat hard and other parts are quite soft (as with some oaks), if you stay in one place too long with the sander, you will take out mostly the soft wood and leave ridges of hard wood.  Doug fir is soft enough that it will show dents with use, but that just makes it look like a real piece of family furniture in my opinion.  Its worth paying a little extra for a good grade on these woods.  Knots can cause all kinds of mischief in a table, especially if they are near the breadboard.

Have you made a breadboard before?  They are a little tricky in that they will stay the same length, but the middle of the table will grow and shrink with changes in humidity, so you might want to think through whether you want the breadboard sticking out or the middle part sticking out most of the time.  Here's an article that shows a technique that the Greene and Greene  style uses to soothe the awkwardness of the joint:

Greene and Greene American Woodworker article

 

[amt]

Upon further contemplation, the cost of the oak really does not seem all that bad, considering that I intend to keep this table for many years, so we'll probably just go for the oak.  After all, why build a cheap table with expensive tools?

Thanks for the Greene and Greene link.  I'll probably pass on that at least for my first table.  Are there any other designs which are relatively simple that I should consider?

 

[Old School Carpenter]

Another thing to consider is that the oak at your lumber yard was probably kiln dried to furniture grade, and the doug fir to framing grade. About 10 to 15% moisture difference. Whatever you decide to use make sure to get it in your shop area and let it acclimate for a week (preferably more) before using.

Remember, it costs just as much in time to build it out of "cheap" material, as it will to make it out of something that will last.

Mike- a big fan of locally sourced North American hardwoods.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Upon further contemplation, the cost of the oak really does not seem all that bad, considering that I intend to keep this table for many years, so we'll probably just go for the oak.  After all, why build a cheap table with expensive tools?

Thanks for the Greene and Greene link.  I'll probably pass on that at least for my first table.  Are there any other designs which are relatively simple that I should consider?

If this is your first table, I suggest skipping the breadboard altogether.  The idea behind the breadboard is to hide the end grain at the end of the table - not a big deal in my opinion.  An alternative would be an edge treatment that de-emphasizes the end grain, maybe a bevel toward the inside or something like that.