Lower cost alternative to oak for table top?

[Mauri Motti]

Thanks Jesse for the greene and greene article. Have saved it right away, very useful. 

 

[amt]

If this is your first table, I suggest skipping the breadboard altogether.  The idea behind the breadboard is to hide the end grain at the end of the table - not a big deal in my opinion.  An alternative would be an edge treatment that de-emphasizes the end grain, maybe a bevel toward the inside or something like that.

That is probably a good idea.  I was a little worried that I would not have anything to keep the top straight, but I now have an idea:  I was planning on using dominos to join the long pieces to each other, mostly for alignment purposes.  However, it occurred to me that if I used the largest and longest domino, they could provide structural strength, preventing the boards from cupping.  Let's say the boards are 5-1/2" wide.  When joining two boards, I would make a mortise as deep as I can go, 70mm, on both boards.  I would do this about every 6 inches.  The domino would be just slightly smaller length, say 145mm, and the dominos would not be glued in.  Glue would only be used on the board's joining faces only.  Since the dominos are not glued and slightly shorter length, it would allow the two boards to expand & contract, but the domino would help keep the boards straight.  This might even work better than a bread board end, because there are these dominos throughout the entire length of the table and not just the ends.

 

[tbellemare]

If this is your first table, I suggest skipping the breadboard altogether.  The idea behind the breadboard is to hide the end grain at the end of the table - not a big deal in my opinion.  An alternative would be an edge treatment that de-emphasizes the end grain, maybe a bevel toward the inside or something like that.

That is probably a good idea.  I was a little worried that I would not have anything to keep the top straight, but I now have an idea:  I was planning on using dominos to join the long pieces to each other, mostly for alignment purposes.  However, it occurred to me that if I used the largest and longest domino, they could provide structural strength, preventing the boards from cupping.  Let's say the boards are 5-1/2" wide.  When joining two boards, I would make a mortise as deep as I can go, 70mm, on both boards.  I would do this about every 6 inches.  The domino would be just slightly smaller length, say 145mm, and the dominos would not be glued in.  Glue would only be used on the board's joining faces only.  Since the dominos are not glued and slightly shorter length, it would allow the two boards to expand & contract, but the domino would help keep the boards straight.  This might even work better than a bread board end, because there are these dominos throughout the entire length of the table and not just the ends.

The DF 700 on its deepest setting, 70mm, makes a mortise that is just right for joining two things using the standard, 140mm long Dominos.

Tom

 

[amt]

Sorry, I meant to say 135mm domino.  The idea is to have it be a little smaller than the full mortise so there's some room for the wood to shrink.

 

[thebicyclecafe]

That is probably a good idea.  I was a little worried that I would not have anything to keep the top straight, but I now have an idea:  I was planning on using dominos to join the long pieces to each other, mostly for alignment purposes.  However, it occurred to me that if I used the largest and longest domino, they could provide structural strength, preventing the boards from cupping.  

Hey amt, I guess if you don't glue them it might help to some extent, but I honestly think if you are using quality materials and methods, there isn't any reason to go to such great lengths to avoid irregular wood movement on a panel.

Other possible ideas are table stretchers that have oversized screw slots to screw the panel through, so that the wood can still move but only along the stretchers.

The idea behind breadboard ends is that they allow the wood to move, but restricting that movement to be along the length of the breadboard end. I think doing a breaboard end for purely structural reasons, is overkill. In this day of kiln dried lumber, good adhesives, and quality machinery, there's no reason a craftsperson can't get a solid, long lasting panel glue up with just butt joints and cauls.

Even attaching it to a solid table base will prevent irregular movement to some extent, as long as you allow for wood movement.

That deep domino joint seems like a whole lot of work for nothing gained. If you want to use the domino for alignment, then by all means, that's fine, use a small domino, 5mmx30mm.
But if your boards aren't milled four square to begin with, none of that is going to help you, and you will still have an improper joint.

Craftspeople have been doing large panels without any sort of fancy joinery, for a long long time, and are able to avoid cupping/bowing on a regular basis.

The key is to pick boards that are flat, stable and true to begin with, and let the board acclimate to a suitable moisture content before milling it. If possible, go with quarter-sawn stock that is mainly heartwood.

When it is stable, mill it four square and clamp the joint square- you can use alignment aids here if you like, cauls, biscuits, dominos...
Some folks swear by alternating the growth rings, and that's fine, but in my experience, if the board isn't stable to begin with, nothing is going to help. You can't force it into compliance, the forces of wood movement are just incredible.

 

[JerrySats]

Most lumber dealers will mill any of the products they sell so you don't have too . The cost is usually very reasonable .

 

[amt]

I ended up purchasing 4/4 quarter sawn white oak.  I am going to mill it myself, or at least attempt to.  Since I don't have a jointer, I will make a planer sled and face plane with thickness planer.  Or if for some reason that does not work out well, I'll try a router method.

I am hoping I can mill the 4/4 down to no less than 3/4 and that hopefully will be strong enough for the table top.  If it is not, I suppose I can go two boards thick, but it would be nice to not resort to that, for both costs and extra work.

 

[leakyroof]

Poplar and Doug Fir are both good woods.  They do have their own personalities, though.  Poplar can have areas of green or purple coloring that may show through a light while stain - test first on a piece of scrap.  Doug fir needs care when sanding.  Parts are somewhat hard and other parts are quite soft (as with some oaks), if you stay in one place too long with the sander, you will take out mostly the soft wood and leave ridges of hard wood.   Doug fir is soft enough that it will show dents with use, but that just makes it look like a real piece of family furniture in my opinion.  Its worth paying a little extra for a good grade on these woods.  Knots can cause all kinds of mischief in a table, especially if they are near the breadboard.

Have you made a breadboard before?  They are a little tricky in that they will stay the same length, but the middle of the table will grow and shrink with changes in humidity, so you might want to think through whether you want the breadboard sticking out or the middle part sticking out most of the time.   Here's an article that shows a technique that the Greene and Greene  style uses to soothe the awkwardness of the joint:

Greene and Greene American Woodworker article

  Thanks for the link. I had no idea that they were incorporating metal hardware like that into their designs.  These days some wood other than Ebony would be used, but the dark wood contrast would still come through as a design cue or look for the piece.  [smile]