Mafell edgebander and Europe power

[Lincoln]

Not doubting Timberwolf's expertise, but I'd get a second opinion from Tobias, at 'Elektrowerkzeug', a major retailer of Mafell, Festool, Fein etc, etc, etc in Germany. He's the man.

 

[afish]

well, just a quick update. I had emailed Mafell and they forwarded my email back to timberwolf and they emailed me saying sorry no it will not work. Then pushed a little further trying to get some clarity and I explained the issue to him and showed him a picture of the mafell manual showing the 50/60hz and that was enough to peak his interest. so he said he would reach back out to mafell for more clarity.  I know Kludge makes this for Mafell and at this point Im thinking the person at mafell that said it wont work was not fully informed and possibly made a rash judgment. I could be wrong but seems like a case of the left hand not knowing what right hand is doing scenario. 

 

[tsmi243]

I could be wrong but seems like a case of the left hand not knowing what right hand is doing scenario.

Much more likely they're being told to say no due to legal exposure, because the machine never got certified for US sale. 

If I were the one who had to reply to you, I'd be as vague as I could about it.  That's what this sounds like to me. 

 

[afish]

true, it could be a certification issue and CYA. However I get the feeling no one has ever even looked in the manual since I seem to get the 50 vs. 60 hz excuse until I show them the manual.

 

[Fourmi]

I can't help on the US voltage side of things, but I do have one of these if anyone has any questions - I know they're as rare as hens teeth and very little info about them out there.

 

[afish]

I would be interested in hearing your likes/dont likes and your opinion on the "zeroness" of the joint.  Would you but it again. 

 

[jeh]

Im going to need to discuss the issue on why mafell says or thinks it wont work, or just not made available here first.  I am planning on emailing them next week.  I had sent Kluge an email thursday night asking them but havent heard anything back yet.  Its not a small purchase for me so I would really like to hear first hand what the issue is and a warranty would be nice too on something around 10k There is so little info/reviews out there.  I would really like to see one first hand to see "how" good the joint looks and if its worth the extra 10k.  Im thinking it would be but its a pretty big leap of faith since I have only seen photos of "zero joint" edgebanding and never in person.  Most shops dont even have a zero joint edgebander that I know of since they are in the 6 figure range.

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] does your shop have a zero joint bander? or is it EVA/PUR Im not talking about your portable one but the stationary/main one.

No reason to even bother asking someone. Mafell has chosen not to sell it here. If the motor is universal and is marked with voltage/hertz data you posted then you should be good to go. I have brought back the 110V UK tools and had no problems with them.

 

[Fourmi]

I would be interested in hearing your likes/dont likes and your opinion on the "zeroness" of the joint.  Would you but it again.

Likes :

Pull it out of the systainer, attach and adjust the support plate / handle, plug in the mains and airline, turn on and put in some edge band, you're ready to go in 1 minute from opening the systainer to running the first edge

Waterproof joins without the cleaning up - you can get polymer backed edge band that creates waterproof joins, for bathroom cabinets, etc., ( much like the polyurethane for the Festool, but of course you have to clean the machine through, and what happens if you get a power cut when your Conturo is full of polyurethane? )... with the Mafell you can switch from polymer to standard just by what band you put in the machine

Lack of bulk - I had a Virutex style glue machine before (they all look the same) and the glue pot is behind the machine and under the support plate - this means you need a reasonable overhang on your piece of work over the edge of the workbench to use the machine - no fun for smaller pieces. The Mafell obviously has no glue pot so the over hang required is virtually nothing. I have a couple of Vac Sys heads built into one of my work benches, set up so when horizontal they are level with the top and when vertical the hold work flush with the edge - I can literally drop even a small panel on the vac heads and edge band it. I think minimum width with my setup is about 7 or 8 cm.

Lack of maintenance - let it cool down, put it back in its case - it will be ready to go in under a minute next time you need it.

Dislikes :
Of course start with the elephant in the room - price... it's not cheap. It is beautifully engineered, and I really hope it keeps working for a long time, but in a normal world (i.e. not in a little bubble of wealthy clients) - a one man band cannot justify / afford it - a real shame as it's exactly the situation it's made for.

Edge band availability : to start with it was not easy to get hold of edge band, I can now get hold of the correctly backed edge from several suppliers. I've given up trying to get hold of edging by the metre and concentrate on a handful of edges and buy by the roll - from 50m to 150m depending on the colour. Pricing for a band in white is around 0,50€ per metre, up to 1,50€ per metre for some of the fancy '3D' design edges.

Zero edge : this is down to three things - 1) how you prepare the edge; 2) how you clean up the edge band after applying; 3) the colour you are using;

For preparing critical edges, I over size my panels by 0,5mm on all sides, then trim to size with a router. This sounds time consuming, but as with any process, once you get it down to a fine art it's very quick. Drop the panel on the vacuum pads, dedicated rail for edging ( a Virutex rail with a funky edge ), router setup for edging panels ( I use an OF1400 with a custom outrigger / stabiliser and a top bearing bit ), 0,5mm offset setup blocks, ( I make a lot of setup blocks to have exactly the same offset when I drop a rail onto work ), clamp and go. As an asides, I'll be very interested to see the cut quality of the new Festool TSV60 when I can get my hands on one, it's certainly on my radar.

For edging, one of my MFK700s is setup with the edge band base and a 2mm round over bit. I never touch the adjustment, I can pick it up and go. Run down the edge and you're done. No glue to clean up. For 0,8mm or 1mm edging, I often put on a micro bevel. I have another MFK700 setup for that; also a Mafell KF1000 set for straight cuts, but I don't use that too much - MFK700 rules for edging, no question.

Solid colours are the hardest. I've done a lot of grey anthracite which is pretty hard. Of course with a really bright light and looking for it, you can see the join... but I have cabinets I've made for my kitchen, and in day to day use, it looks like the inside of the cabinet just comes out and rolls round in to the edge.

Photos are a two edge sword - because lets say I posted a photo that gives this effect - someone will always say 'you've taken the photo so you can't see the join' which is true, because in everyday conditions you can't see the join; if I posted a photo with super bright lighting and zoomed up - someone will always say 'you spent all that money and I can see the join' which is true, because in these particular conditions you can see the join.

Would I buy again - probably... because I'm never happy unless I do the best I can do, and I don't think there is another way to do edging better (in mobile portable mode).

BAT table : this is to hold the machine for passing small (and larger) pieces over it. I don't have it, it's expensive, I want it... one day my finger will twitch on the mouse button and it will arrive a week later.

 

[afish]

[member=79486]Fourmi[/member] Thanks for those details.  Just a little clarification on my end I cut everything on a cnc with compression bit so the edges are dare I say perfect. Currently I use the conturo and do also own a MFK My biggest issue with the conturo is it applies the glue to the banding and not the panel so you end up with A LOT of extra glue when trimming off the glue re-melts from the heat and sticks to the bit and just about everything else within 3 feet and gums up the bit quickly and bad.  For regular melamine and carcass panels its not a big deal I use a razor style trimmer and no issues.  However doing doors with fine or high gloss finish is a big issue.  The gummed up bit can easily damage the face, best case there is a ton of delicate clean up.  While I wish I had the budget and space for a fully auto zero edge bander I dont.  I am also similar to you that if Im going to do it I want to do it the best I can with what I can reasonably buy. While 10k is a tough pill to swallow it is doable if I decide too. 

To me edgebanding is one of those make it or break it items.  I can get very very good results with the conturo on carcass panels but High gloss doors are just good to really good IMO.  I can still see the glue line when close. A lot of people wouldn't notice but I do.

Also the waterproofness is another draw. I made some outdoor doors and drawer fronts and had to epoxy everything which was not fun since I dont want to deal with PUR in the conturo.   

So my 3 biggest draws for this thing is
1. Zero joint quality #1 by far. 
2. Ease of trimming and clean up on delicate finish (do you have any bit clogging issues on the MFK) not really sure how gummy the "functional layer" is on this style banding is
3. Waterproofness without risking damage to machine. I too enjoy the just let it cool and stick it back in the systainer approach.     

 

[Lincoln]

[member=79486]Fourmi[/member]  -  would be very interested in any pics you might have of your day to day mobile setup.
Lincoln.

 

[Fourmi]

The polymer backing is extremely thin, it's heated to around 450 celsius to bond to the panel, there is no gumminess or glue after edging. After trimming with the MFK (on 2mm edge with a 2mm round over) there is a wafer like strip of edge band left by the cutter and is hanging on nothing, I peel it off in one piece.

 

[Michael Kellough]

“zero edge”, “zero joint quality”, what does zero mean?

 

[afish]

It refers to visibility. The banding does not use glue. it has whats called a "functional" layer on the back that is either activated by laser od hot air. It is NOT the same tech. as the pre glued that is attached with hot air.  From my understanding its basically a combination of hot air and compressed air sort of hot air injection. Long story short it is supposed to produce a waterproof, invisible joint between panel and banding