Mafell Kss 40 18m?

[jarbroen]

I don't know which is worse, the Festool addiction or the Mafell disease...

I have several projects coming up that gave me the idea that I needed something like the HKC55.  Decks, fence, shed siding, planter boxes, gazebo, etc.  Lots of outdoor plans this year.

I first looked at the HKC55, it's Festool and relatively cheap.  Then I read some of the complaints like lack of power, cut quality...
I realize I could get the corded version that probably has more power, but it takes away the convenience and portability.

Then I started looking at the Mafell KSS 40.  I recently added the Mafell MT55 and P1cc to my toys, I mean tools.  I've been super happy with the even higher level of quality/well though product vs. the similar Festool I've used.  It's definitely been worth the extra dollars they cost to alleviate some of the frustrations I had with Festool saws.

My biggest concern with the KSS 40 is the depth of cut.  1 9/16" gets the saw through 2x material for the most part.  A lot of my projects outdoors will have material that dimension or smaller - probably 90% of the material.
The HKC55 is over 2" which would probably cover 95%.

I know there aren't a ton of Mafell users on here, but was wondering if anyone had experience with the KSS 40?
The current 'special' pricing makes the saw much more temping.  It's $999 with Flexi rail, charger and batteries.  Just a couple hundred extra over the HKC55 set.
I've learned to 'buy once' even if it means the item that cost an extra couple hundred.  Much cheaper than selling the first purchase to buy the one I should have gotten.
That would suggest getting the KSS 50 or 60.  However, those are not on the same 'special' pricing and are quite a bit more costly when bundled with batteries.  Not sure I can justify the cost for the extra cut capacity.
Plus, I think with the size of the KSS 40 I'd be much more likely to whip it out for projects.

I think I already know which way I'm leaning.  Just performing my due diligence before getting the KSS 40 over the HKC55.

 

[Michael Kellough]

The KSS 40 is a delightful tool. Reminds me of the first time I used my (then) new Ricoh GR-1.

The GR-1 was a one trick pony. Only the one lens, a superb 28mm that collapsed into the body making it the most sleekest and most compact high quality 35mm camera there was.

The KSS 40 is similarly dedicated to a single task though you can switch it out to the Flexirail for longer cuts. The full blown kit is by far the better deal.

The HKC 55 with it’s interchangeable rails and ability to ride regular FS rails is an intermediate category between the KSS 40 and the rail riding saws.

I have way to many saws, and cameras.

 

[ScotF]

You might want to check out the Mafell forum for more info - while most really like the saw, there have been some problems with the electronics on some. Of course, I had a similar issue with my HKC that was fixed under warranty. That is where the 1 yr vs 3yr might play into your decision.

FWIW - I have several Mafell tools and really like every one of them, but I have not jumped into the battery platform of Metabo/Mafell and reports of these issues gives me pause. It is not just the smaller saw, it seems similar reports on other battery saws too.

 

[demographic]

For me 40mm depth of cut just isnt enough to cut framing timber in the UK which is often about 45mm thick.

I use my HKC for that a LOT.

Theres a cordless 60mm depth of cut Mafell KSS thing but a mate got one then it was recalled before he had a chance to use it, expected to get one baxk this summer.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

I own several of the KSS saws, KSS-40 (cordless), KSS-300 (corded version of KSS-40), KSS-400 (corded). I've found I REALLY like the 120mm saws (KSS-300, KSS-40). They are light, nimble, and as a trim/remodeling carpenter I find they handle ~90% of my cutting needs. They work great for breaking down sheet goods, and blaze through crosscutting studs.

There have been a few reports of KSS-40 saws going down due to motor issues, it sounds like the manufacturer or distributor has been repairing those saws in a matter of days and returning them to users within a week or so. Mafell produces all of their AC motors in-house, whereas my understanding is that Metabo is producing the motors for the cordless tools. It's possible the Metabo motors are either experiencing some teething problems, or there are the normal failure rates, which are hard to gauge since mostly users only post when they are experiencing a problem. I'm aware of three or four failures that were reported on the Red forum.

All that being said, the KSS-40 has all of the benefits and shortcomings of a cordless saw. On the plus side, it's incredibly mobile, and has good power. On the down side, power suffers in cold weather (below ~20F), and you're subject to the now-common internal electronics intended to protect the motor and battery from damage.

I suspect either the 40 or 300 would serve you well. The HK-55 and KSS-55 are (relatively) much larger saws, and I've found them to be overkill for simple framing and processing sheet goods and millwork.

 

[jarbroen]

I really appreciate all the feedback!

I have read the Mafell forums on the subject and noticed the complaints of failures.  Not sure how widespread that is and whether that's ongoing or been resolved...  And I read about HKC issues as well.  The 1 vs 3 year warranty and the fact that I can try out the Festool is a factor too.  I might decide to give the HKC a try on one of my projects.  Even though I know the 30 day return is there I'm reluctant to buy a tool I'm not 95% sure I'll keep. 

I also have a concern about the KSS 40 depth of cut being a hair too shy of cutting 2X.  Some of the better quality 2X material I've purchased is at or over 1 9/16"(maybe 42mm).
And the battery platform is definitely a concern.  I currently have a T18 set and I'm really happy with it.  Not sure I'd want to switch over to any of the Mafell or Metabo drills.  So I'd be adding another battery platform to the mix.  I already have the 18v Festool, CXS Festool, Milwaukee 12v.

Corded isn't a bad option.  The one place I'm limited is out by my shed - it's 100+ feet from the house/power.
Otherwise, corded would solve the underpowered and another battery platform issue.
However, the cordless crosscut does seem super portable - which means I'd be much more likely to use it.

From a form and function I know the KSS 40 would be more enjoyable to use than the HKC55...

I still have a few weeks before I'll get going on my projects so plenty of time to overanalyze my choice...  [big grin]

 

[lshah72414]

Timberwolf tools only gives a one year warranty, but , if you register it with Mafell , they will give you a three year warranty. I have done that with all my Mafell tools. Don't know how it really works as far as the three year warranty, do you have to send it to Germany?, as I have never had to send a tool in for repair.

I agree with Tom Gensmer as far as the cold. Make sure you don't leave the batteries out in the cold,(Mine are stored in the tools, in an unheated garage).  I live in Michigan and they will stall. Fortunately, all my chargers with excess batteries are kept in the house, so all I have to do is swap out the cold battery for a warm battery and then they work.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Something to keep in mind as well is, will you be cutting bevels or not? My KSS-40/300 both cut through North American 2x materials just fine. The only times I've run into problems is sometimes saw dust can accumulate on the support columns, preventing the saw from descending to full depth. A quick shot of compressed air fixes the issue. The only other times I've had issues is when cutting pressure treated framing lumber that has swelled, but even then it's only a board or two on an entire deck frame.

If you're planning on cutting 45 degree bevels, remember that the HK(C)-55 will often not fully cut through 2x.

My KSS-400 cuts 45 bevels in framing lumber just fine, again the only time I've run into issues is on cupped, treated 2x10 and 2x12 material where the cup adds a few mm to the board thickness. The KSS-50 is the successor to the KSS-400, and the KSS-60 is another step larger.

So, for cutting decking boards and 0 degree bevels on framing lumber I'd opt for one of the 120mm saws. If you'll be cutting through 2x treated framing material at a 45 bevel, you may want to look at a KSS-50/60....

Regarding battery platforms, I'd recommend just buying the tool that best meets your needs, regardless of platform. I used to get all twisted up into knots trying to identify the "Perfect" battery platform that would satisfy all of my needs. I was never satisfied. These days I have a really nice mix of cordless (HILTI, Festool, Metabo/Mafell/CAS, Bosch), which has the side benefit of not having to constantly be swapping batteries between tools.

Regarding warranty, at least in North America my impression is that Timberwolf really wants to cater to the professional market, so they've put some policies in place that probably deter some hobbyists and tire-kickers. There are no returns, but I've had excellent support experiences from them, and they are quick to order parts and have walked users through pretty involved repairs over the phone (I would rather fix the tool in my shop and get back to work).

 

[CityDecks]

I don't know which is worse, the Festool addiction or the Mafell disease...

I have several projects coming up that gave me the idea that I needed something like the HKC55.  Decks, fence, shed siding, planter boxes, gazebo, etc.  Lots of outdoor plans this year.

I first looked at the HKC55, it's Festool and relatively cheap.  Then I read some of the complaints like lack of power, cut quality...
I realize I could get the corded version that probably has more power, but it takes away the convenience and portability.

Then I started looking at the Mafell KSS 40.  I recently added the Mafell MT55 and P1cc to my toys, I mean tools.  I've been super happy with the even higher level of quality/well though product vs. the similar Festool I've used.  It's definitely been worth the extra dollars they cost to alleviate some of the frustrations I had with Festool saws.

My biggest concern with the KSS 40 is the depth of cut.  1 9/16" gets the saw through 2x material for the most part.  A lot of my projects outdoors will have material that dimension or smaller - probably 90% of the material.
The HKC55 is over 2" which would probably cover 95%.

I know there aren't a ton of Mafell users on here, but was wondering if anyone had experience with the KSS 40?
The current 'special' pricing makes the saw much more temping.  It's $999 with Flexi rail, charger and batteries.  Just a couple hundred extra over the HKC55 set.
I've learned to 'buy once' even if it means the item that cost an extra couple hundred.  Much cheaper than selling the first purchase to buy the one I should have gotten.
That would suggest getting the KSS 50 or 60.  However, those are not on the same 'special' pricing and are quite a bit more costly when bundled with batteries.  Not sure I can justify the cost for the extra cut capacity.
Plus, I think with the size of the KSS 40 I'd be much more likely to whip it out for projects.

I think I already know which way I'm leaning.  Just performing my due diligence before getting the KSS 40 over the HKC55.

I have the kss40. Use it decking light framing etc. No mercy. Really powerful lol sucker that handles everything you fit it over. Dead on handheld mitersaw. The weight or lo ack is too hard to pass up.  Hkc has about  1/2 of the power of mafell.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[CityDecks]

Something to keep in mind as well is, will you be cutting bevels or not? My KSS-40/300 both cut through North American 2x materials just fine. The only times I've run into problems is sometimes saw dust can accumulate on the support columns, preventing the saw from descending to full depth. A quick shot of compressed air fixes the issue. The only other times I've had issues is when cutting pressure treated framing lumber that has swelled, but even then it's only a board or two on an entire deck frame.

If you're planning on cutting 45 degree bevels, remember that the HK(C)-55 will often not fully cut through 2x.

My KSS-400 cuts 45 bevels in framing lumber just fine, again the only time I've run into issues is on cupped, treated 2x10 and 2x12 material where the cup adds a few mm to the board thickness. The KSS-50 is the successor to the KSS-400, and the KSS-60 is another step larger.

So, for cutting decking boards and 0 degree bevels on framing lumber I'd opt for one of the 120mm saws. If you'll be cutting through 2x treated framing material at a 45 bevel, you may want to look at a KSS-50/60....

Regarding battery platforms, I'd recommend just buying the tool that best meets your needs, regardless of platform. I used to get all twisted up into knots trying to identify the "Perfect" battery platform that would satisfy all of my needs. I was never satisfied. These days I have a really nice mix of cordless (HILTI, Festool, Metabo/Mafell/CAS, Bosch), which has the side benefit of not having to constantly be swapping batteries between tools.

Regarding warranty, at least in North America my impression is that Timberwolf really wants to cater to the professional market, so they've put some policies in place that probably deter some hobbyists and tire-kickers. There are no returns, but I've had excellent support experiences from them, and they are quick to order parts and have walked users through pretty involved repairs over the phone (I would rather fix the tool in my shop and get back to work).

My kss40 fried up the 3rd using it. Sent it 6to tw replaced motor and cpl of other things came good as new. They it was a fluke.  Who knows.  I was more upset about having to return for refund and not being able to use such an efficient tool.

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[Tyler Ernsberger]

I have the Kss40 and the Kss50.  Both are amazing saws.  If I had to choose one it would be the kss50 being it’s more versatile.  Both saws do everything I throw at them.  I did burn up my kss40 motor 14 months into owning, mafell and Timberwolf fixed it for free.  I have a lot of info on my Instagram. 

 

[CityDecks]

I have the Kss40 and the Kss50.  Both are amazing saws.  If I had to choose one it would be the kss50 being it’s more versatile.  Both saws do everything I throw at them.  I did burn up my kss40 motor 14 months into owning, mafell and Timberwolf fixed it for free.  I have a lot of info on my Instagram.

Interesting.  There's been  several burnt up kss40's. Don't know how many are in circulation. 

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[Tyler Ernsberger]

I have the Kss40 and the Kss50.  Both are amazing saws.  If I had to choose one it would be the kss50 being it’s more versatile.  Both saws do everything I throw at them.  I did burn up my kss40 motor 14 months into owning, mafell and Timberwolf fixed it for free.  I have a lot of info on my Instagram.

Interesting.  There's been  several burnt up kss40's. Don't know how many are in circulation. 

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Mine was honestly probably from abuse. But there’s also different series of the saw.  Mine is the first type.

 

[CityDecks]

I have the Kss40 and the Kss50.  Both are amazing saws.  If I had to choose one it would be the kss50 being it’s more versatile.  Both saws do everything I throw at them.  I did burn up my kss40 motor 14 months into owning, mafell and Timberwolf fixed it for free.  I have a lot of info on my Instagram.

Interesting.  There's been  several burnt up kss40's. Don't know how many are in circulation. 

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Mine was honestly probably from abuse. But there’s also different series of the saw.  Mine is the first type.

Wish makita would make one.

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[jarbroen]

Something to keep in mind as well is, will you be cutting bevels or not? My KSS-40/300 both cut through North American 2x materials just fine. The only times I've run into problems is sometimes saw dust can accumulate on the support columns, preventing the saw from descending to full depth. A quick shot of compressed air fixes the issue. The only other times I've had issues is when cutting pressure treated framing lumber that has swelled, but even then it's only a board or two on an entire deck frame.

If you're planning on cutting 45 degree bevels, remember that the HK(C)-55 will often not fully cut through 2x.

My KSS-400 cuts 45 bevels in framing lumber just fine, again the only time I've run into issues is on cupped, treated 2x10 and 2x12 material where the cup adds a few mm to the board thickness. The KSS-50 is the successor to the KSS-400, and the KSS-60 is another step larger.

So, for cutting decking boards and 0 degree bevels on framing lumber I'd opt for one of the 120mm saws. If you'll be cutting through 2x treated framing material at a 45 bevel, you may want to look at a KSS-50/60....

Regarding battery platforms, I'd recommend just buying the tool that best meets your needs, regardless of platform. I used to get all twisted up into knots trying to identify the "Perfect" battery platform that would satisfy all of my needs. I was never satisfied. These days I have a really nice mix of cordless (HILTI, Festool, Metabo/Mafell/CAS, Bosch), which has the side benefit of not having to constantly be swapping batteries between tools.

Regarding warranty, at least in North America my impression is that Timberwolf really wants to cater to the professional market, so they've put some policies in place that probably deter some hobbyists and tire-kickers. There are no returns, but I've had excellent support experiences from them, and they are quick to order parts and have walked users through pretty involved repairs over the phone (I would rather fix the tool in my shop and get back to work).

Most bevel cutting I can anticipate would be 1x fascia or deck boards.  I don't bevel PT 2x(so far).
The KSS50 is tempting because I wouldn't have a worry about thickness or bevels, but there's a big trade off in cost and portability.  That KSS 40 kit all in a systainer sounds awesome.  Kinda like I've been super happy I picked up a CT Midi to complement my now shop bound CT 26.

If I was a professional this would probably be easier to decide.  Instead of only picking one flavor of Mafell crosscut saws I would probably have 3 - 40/60/80.

Good point on the batteries - one more charger isn't going to be a deal breaker.  And it does open up more options if I wan't a cordless sawzall.  I got rid of all my Makita 18v because I was tired of the batteries crapping out which leaves space on my charging shelf. [big grin]

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Something to keep in mind as well is, will you be cutting bevels or not? My KSS-40/300 both cut through North American 2x materials just fine. The only times I've run into problems is sometimes saw dust can accumulate on the support columns, preventing the saw from descending to full depth. A quick shot of compressed air fixes the issue. The only other times I've had issues is when cutting pressure treated framing lumber that has swelled, but even then it's only a board or two on an entire deck frame.

If you're planning on cutting 45 degree bevels, remember that the HK(C)-55 will often not fully cut through 2x.

My KSS-400 cuts 45 bevels in framing lumber just fine, again the only time I've run into issues is on cupped, treated 2x10 and 2x12 material where the cup adds a few mm to the board thickness. The KSS-50 is the successor to the KSS-400, and the KSS-60 is another step larger.

So, for cutting decking boards and 0 degree bevels on framing lumber I'd opt for one of the 120mm saws. If you'll be cutting through 2x treated framing material at a 45 bevel, you may want to look at a KSS-50/60....

Regarding battery platforms, I'd recommend just buying the tool that best meets your needs, regardless of platform. I used to get all twisted up into knots trying to identify the "Perfect" battery platform that would satisfy all of my needs. I was never satisfied. These days I have a really nice mix of cordless (HILTI, Festool, Metabo/Mafell/CAS, Bosch), which has the side benefit of not having to constantly be swapping batteries between tools.

Regarding warranty, at least in North America my impression is that Timberwolf really wants to cater to the professional market, so they've put some policies in place that probably deter some hobbyists and tire-kickers. There are no returns, but I've had excellent support experiences from them, and they are quick to order parts and have walked users through pretty involved repairs over the phone (I would rather fix the tool in my shop and get back to work).

Most bevel cutting I can anticipate would be 1x fascia or deck boards.  I don't bevel PT 2x(so far).
The KSS50 is tempting because I wouldn't have a worry about thickness or bevels, but there's a big trade off in cost and portability.  That KSS 40 kit all in a systainer sounds awesome.  Kinda like I've been super happy I picked up a CT Midi to complement my now shop bound CT 26.

If I was a professional this would probably be easier to decide.  Instead of only picking one flavor of Mafell crosscut saws I would probably have 3 - 40/60/80.

Good point on the batteries - one more charger isn't going to be a deal breaker.  And it does open up more options if I wan't a cordless sawzall.  I got rid of all my Makita 18v because I was tired of the batteries crapping out which leaves space on my charging shelf. [big grin]

My KSS-40 has earned a spot in my van and gets regular use, whereas my KSS-400 only comes out for framing jobs where I need to really hustle (power) and/or I need to cut bevels in 2x material. If I worked outdoors all Winter I'd probably carry my KSS-300, but since I'm mostly indoors these days the KSS-40 is my pick. If I could only pick one, I'd keep the KSS-300 or KSS-40, the KSS-400 is awesome but for the limited amount of framing I do these days I could get by with a traditional sidewinder.

Rather than considering all of the tasks you "might" perform, I'd suggest you instead think of the tasks you most often perform, and acquire a tool that best fits that task....

 

[CityDecks]

I've been using the kss40 for over a 1000 crosscuts cuts per week for the last 3weeks and  have 2-3000 cuts to go just for wall. 2000 + more cuts for capping.
Cut 20ft deck boards  down to with 1/4. 5degree bevel for clean reveal then onto mitersaw with stop for thousands of repeating cuts for walls. It eliminates  cutting twice on mitersaw and hassle of flip/ flop and additional staging.  The flooring  bypasses the mitersaw.  Too much trouble for miter.  No use for speed sqr to make sqr cuts anymore.  Makes em perfect every time. 

To me to it's more then paid for it self at least once just on this job.
This is perfect tool for my life. I lost track of how much time I've saved.

If anyone reading this is hesitant in purchasing. Don't.

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[RKA]

I don’t have any experience with the KSS40, but I’ll offer up a few points.
-Festool’s 30 day return applies to the saw, not the rail.  If you’re in NJ, I can lend you a rail, but otherwise, their 30 day return may not be of much use if you’re stuck with an expensive rail.
-Neither one of my FSK rails are dead on 90 degrees.  They are close, but if that matters to you, bear it in mind.
-Your stated needs are met with the 40.  Frankly, having a compact portable cordless is really useful.  Later if your needs require a larger saw, get one.  But you’ll appreciate the small saw for 1x material.  I feel the same way about my drills.  CXS if it can power through, otherwise I’ll get something bigger or faster.  But I value it’s compact size as much as I value a larger motor when the job calls for it.
-Another battery system isn’t the end of the world if the tool is useful.  I used to limit myself to battery systems until I reached a turning point.  I got tired of waiting for brand B to release a tool or settling for a sub-optimal tool because my brand didn’t have anything better.  In retrospect, it was silly, I enjoy using a good tool and if it costs me a little more in the long run, It’s money well spent.
-Longer rails are an option with the HKC.  If you’re making angled cuts, like stair stringers, those longer rails are handy.  But the Mafell offers the flexirail which is terrific if you need portability. 

I don’t think there is a bad decision here, just two slightly different options.  Both will do your deck project, but looking a little beyond that might help you identify the better tool for you.  Just remember, it won’t be your only saw.

 

[jarbroen]

Ordered the KSS 40 complete set!  In the back of my brain I'd probably already decided on it days ago.
I've just learned to curb my impulse buys and give myself a few days to marinate on bigger purchases.

Looking forward to use it on a bunch of the projects I mentioned.  I anticipate that my Kapex won't leave my shop very often from now on.

I didn't purchase any blades yet.  I figured I'll test the saw with the stock blade for a bit before deciding what I need.  That will be about the time I need to place an order from Timberwolf for other saw blades anyway.

Thanks again guys!

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Congrats [member=65755]jarbroen[/member] ! The KSS-40 ships with a 24 tooth blade, whereas the KSS-300 ships with a 40 tooth blade, which would be a handy blade to have for finer work. Blade changes are pretty quick/easy, and I try to make a point of using the blade best suited to the task at hand.

If you ever encounter depth-of-cut issues, remember to check the bottoms of the support columns, as they can accumulate sawdust which can limit your cut depth. A quick swipe with a brush or a shot of compressed air resolves the issue.