Makita vs Festool?

[Rip Van Winkle]

I love my Festool tools - But would think long and hard - About buying them today.
Notwithstanding the Festool issue - Regarding the hassle and considerable cost -
Of having to have sets of different proprietary batteries for each different tool -
There was a time - Back when I bought most of my Festool tools -
When Festool was noted for high priced - But high QA, premium quality tools.
But, the last few years Festool’s QA seems to have diminished -
As evidenced by an ever increasing number of posts - Across a wide variety of tools -
In the FOG’s Festool Tool Problems section.

Continueing to tell customers to return Festool tools within 30 days of purchase -
Or to send them in to be repaired to Festool Service -
Just isn’t good enough anymore.

Hence, the increasing comparisons to Makita and other brands -
“Good enough to do the job” - At 1/2 to 2/3 the cost.

    That portion about the battery platforms is only partially accurate.  You do not need a different battery for each different tool.  CXS/TXS and the new cordless sanders each have their own battery type. But everything else uses the same battery .......  TSC55 saw, HKC55 saw, Carvex, T and C series drills, PDC drill, BHC Hammer drill, DWC Drywall driver, Syslite, Radio ..... all the same battery platform.

Seth

Festool probably has the widest number of incompatible tool batteries and chargers outside of Mafell and Fein. It’s actually one area were they don’t have a “system” aproach in place, despite this being one of the things Festool is supposedly known for.
Mafell has such a wide variety of batteries and chargers, because they don’t manufacture their own battery system. They rebrand or modify other companies cordless tools to make their cordless models, and just use the original manufacturers battery platform, which means tools might use AEG/Milwaukee, Bosch, or Metabo batteries, depending on what the tool is. Are there others as well? At least this makes purchasing extra batteries more convenient locally than finding Mafell batteries given the small number of sources for Mafell tools in the US.
Fein on the other hand has a habit of coming out with a new battery system for each generation of tools. Other than the most often seen cordless drill though, most Fein cordless tools were highly expensive fastening tools, made for industrial assembly  for companies like BMW. So I can understand using a different battery system fir those tools, and actually keeping the older system when they switched to the newer lithium cordless system with the wider variety of tools. Fein also made an adapter for the chargers so the industrial tools could be charged with the regilar chargers.
Festool on the other hand never seemed to keep a “system” approach for their cordless tools. Back when the CDD and TDD cordless drills were being sold, both drills used different batteries, and different chargers, at least in North America. Then Festool came out with the newer C12 series drills which used different chargers and batteries from the CDD and TDD drills. Now Festool has added even more tools that don’t use compatible batteries and chargers.

Are there four different battery platforms currently in production or more at the moment?

 

[Alanbach]

So I just read this thread from the beginning and there is a lot of great information here but I was left with this discussion reminding me of tool buying conclusions that I made thirty years ago and how they still apply today. I should say that I own a lot of tools in Milwaukee’s 18V platform and three Festools (no cordless yet). The thought is this, platforms are great and I love having ten tools that run on one battery platform BUT no one tool manufacturer will ever make ALL the best tools that I need /want the most. Case in point, as much as I love my  Milwaukee cordless platform I will probably buy a CSX one of the days because it fits a need that Milwaukee can’t fill. Someone else will always come out with something new that has some particular improvement that will make it compelling to you. So you can pick the best path for you today but cut yourself a break because the day will probably come when you stray from that path and it will be OK. (Or you just might stumble across a great deal on some great tool and voila, you just arrived in a new platform.)

 

[Jmacpherson]

Seth has a very valid point about Festool batteries. Yes the 10,8v drills and the 18v sanders are different but the sander batteries work on the current 18v chargers. However, the 18v/15v batteries and tools are backwards and forwards compatible.

Here is Peter Parfit's review of the BHC, go to 03:57 to see the part about batteries.

A lot of people will invest into a cordless system which has the most variety, which Makita and Milwaukee probably own in terms of variety. Dewalt seems to be coming up with some interesting items and even Ryobi too from a more affordable point of view.
The battery ah/capacity race seems to have been replaced by the cordless tool of convenience race - cordless pvc pipe cutters, rivet guns and coffee machines

That being said, how many people would buy a tool from another platform from a convenience or efficiency point of view?

 

[semenza]

      I'd just like to point out that some of this incompatibility can be applied to other brands as well.

    I do not see any DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita, Bosch compact drill/driver that uses the same batteries as the 18v or higher tools in those brands. So how is this different from Festool CXS and C/T series using different batteries?

      A cursory glance through tools and info seems to also indicate that not all chargers are compatible, nor can all newer tools use older batteries in other brands either. 

    It would be great if all the tools used the same batteries within a brand, Festool or otherwise.  But it is not  just  Festool that has some or a variety of battery incompatibility issues.    Hmmmm, interesting.  [scratch chin]

Seth

 

[rljatl]

[member=1619]SRSemenza[/member]
Festool has three current battery types that are not cross compatible.
1. 12v
2. 18v (for drills and saws)
3. 18v (for sanders)

I think it is the brand new sander battery platform that has everyone disappointed.

 

[rst]

All this boo hoo rah about the new sanders is ridiculous, if Festool would have hung the existing 18v batteries on the new sanders the complaints would have been about the weight.

 

[semenza]

[member=1619]SRSemenza[/member]
Festool has three current battery types that are not cross compatible.
1. 12v
2. 18v (for drills and saws)
3. 18v (for sanders)

I think it is the brand new sander battery platform that has everyone disappointed.

Yes, I know. And it would be great if the sanders were compatible, I would like that too if I get one. I guess the trade off would be a large rectangular battery on the sander. Maybe that matters, maybe it doesn't. I have not really used any cordless sander except for just checking out the Festool sanders at  Connect.

My real point is that sometimes on this forum (and yes, this goes with the territory of it being a Festool forum) it appears that Festool is the only brand that has something wrong with a tool line or feature , etc. and that other brands do not have those problems. When in fact they do. In this case battery / tool / charger incompatibilities.

Seth

 

[Stephen B]

Makita has one Battery platform, Festool at least three. On some Makita tools the Battery due to size upsets the balance. ( Eg.new batt. Trim Router.)

There is your choice 'sports fans'. Do you want a full sized Festool Battery on one of the new Sanders or the given and appropriate balanced unit provided?

I have Festool and Makita, and others. As others have said here, it's not Festool vs Makita, 'it's the right tool for the right task'.

 

[RKA]

To be fair, Makita’s first generation Lion batteries and tools weren’t exactly compatible with what followed.  They later added circuitry to prevent the tools from draining the batteries too much rendering them bricks that their chargers would not charger.  As a result full compatibility with newer tools and batteries was limited without user modification.  I was happy with the performance of their cordless platform, but the inability to upgrade piecemeal with the newer batteries and brushless tools left me no choice but to vote with my wallet.  So Makita isn’t without fault.

I don’t feel much better about Festool having bought the last of their 14v platform before they standardized on 18v. So now I have three Festool battery platforms with limited cross compatibility between batteries, tools and chargers. 

 

[nvalinski]

Makita has one Battery platform, Festool at least three. ( Eg.new batt. Trim Router.)

I mean, they've got a 12V line which is somewhat comparable to what the TXS/CXS do without being compatible with the 18V line, no?

 

[Peter_C]

I will stand up for Festool and say great job on creating a battery for the tool, not the tool for the battery. Plus Festool's costs for their batteries is very reasonable.

I WANT two different voltage battery systems. Although I don't own Festool cordless, I do own Milwaukee M12 12 volts tools and they are perfect for so many jobs. I don't need an 18 volt caulking gun, but the 12 volt version works awesome and is light weight. My go to 1/4" impact gun is my M12, and I own 3, 1/4", 18 volt impact guns in both Milwaukee and Makita. 

Also no one size of battery is good enough. I prefer a 2.0Ah battery for impact drivers and other tools vs a 5.0Ah. 9.0Ah batteries are great for some things, but heavy as heck.

Festool releases Bluetooth batteries for connection to their dust collectors...people complain. Makita goes the other route and releases tools that are Bluetooth and keep their batteries...people complain. Point being you can't make everyone happy. They both have their advantages.

Personally I feel no one tool brand, nor line, can do it all, and having multiples fits the trades. In other words I have no brand loyalty.

 

[rst]

I'm with Peter C, I buy and try whatever I think will work best for my specific purposes.  I've been doing commercial/industrial glazing, locksmithing, plastic fabrication, and wood butchering for myself for 38 years.  Over the years I've had B&D, Freud, 9 & 14V Makitas, and presently have 12 & 18V Milwaukees, 18V Feins, and now 10.8 and 18V Festools cordless tools.  At present I've weaned myself down to Milwaukee, Fein and Festool.  That being said Makita's 18V chopsaw really had me considering selling my 12" Makita slider.  Bought Milwaukee's 7 1/4" 18V instead for a traveler.  Someday when Festool sorts out their slider, I may go that route for in the shop.

 

[Stephen B]

[size=13pt]Makita has one Battery platform, Festool at least three. ( Eg.new batt. Trim Router.)

I mean, they've got a 12V line which is somewhat comparable to what the TXS/CXS do without being compatible with the 18V line, no?

[not worthy] [not worthy][size=14pt]Yes [member=67061]nvalinski[/member] You are correct.

I was thinking only of their 18V which includes Sanders, Drills and Routers. However my real point is that this should not be a debate of Festool vs Makita as each of their tools offers advantages and disadvantages to the potential customer.

 

[leakyroof]

[size=13pt]Makita has one Battery platform, Festool at least three. ( Eg.new batt. Trim Router.)

I mean, they've got a 12V line which is somewhat comparable to what the TXS/CXS do without being compatible with the 18V line, no?

[not worthy] [not worthy][size=14pt]Yes [member=67061]nvalinski[/member] You are correct.

I was thinking only of their 18V which includes Sanders, Drills and Routers. However my real point is that this should not be a debate of Festool vs Makita as each of their tools offers advantages and disadvantages to the potential customer.

. I thought there was a separate 18v battery line that doesn’t fit the higher draw tools since it was a 1.5Ah battery size with the Makita Compact Tool sub section?

 

[nvalinski]

I thought there was a separate 18v battery line that doesn’t fit the higher draw tools since it was a 1.5Ah battery size with the Makita Compact Tool sub section?

The new "subcompact" 18V line still shares the same 18V batteries, just on a 12V form factor of tool. I don't see any reason why the 1.5Ah batteries wouldn't fit a larger tool, just wouldn't run as long.

 

[Stephen B]

[size=10pt]

I thought there was a separate 18v battery line that doesn’t fit the higher draw tools since it was a 1.5Ah battery size with the Makita Compact Tool sub section?

The new "subcompact" 18V line still shares the same 18V batteries, just on a 12V form factor of tool. [size=14pt]I don't see any reason why the 1.5Ah batteries wouldn't fit a larger tool, just wouldn't run as long.

[attachimg=1]

 

[leakyroof]

I thought there was a separate 18v battery line that doesn’t fit the higher draw tools since it was a 1.5Ah battery size with the Makita Compact Tool sub section?

The new "subcompact" 18V line still shares the same 18V batteries, just on a 12V form factor of tool. I don't see any reason why the 1.5Ah batteries wouldn't fit a larger tool, just wouldn't run as long.

. Not the newest subcompact, the previous one. I thought there was a plastic shroud or tab that prevents the 1.5Ah batteries from fitting the tools that use the 3.0 and larger batteries.
If I remember right, my Compact 1.5s from my 1/4” QC 18v impact will not fit my Cordless Saw, my 1/2” impact or my 18v Blower even though they are all 18 volt batteries .
It doesn’t bother me a bit since the Saw alone needs 3.0 or 5.0Ah for long run times..

 

[nvalinski]

Was there actually a compact line, or just the previous pre-LXT batteries? I don't know much about the previous generation, but I think it was something to do with the LXT line being able to communicate with the battery, and some tab that made old batteries not forward compatible but new batteries backwards compatible (regardless of size). Could be totally wrong though.

 

[Peter_C]

I thought there was a separate 18v battery line that doesn’t fit the higher draw tools since it was a 1.5Ah battery size with the Makita Compact Tool sub section?

Makita calls their newer circa 2012 batteries "STAR Protection Computer Controls" and some of their older tools can not be used with newer high amp hour Star protected batteries. This is typically the older brushed tools that are not STAR rated. IE: I have an older Makita grinder that will accept the 3.0Ah batteries (Which are STAR rated) but will not accept the 4.0Ah packs nor the 5.0Ah battery packs.

My guess is that they worry more about over discharging a high amp battery back for warranty and safety issues.

 

[leakyroof]

I thought there was a separate 18v battery line that doesn’t fit the higher draw tools since it was a 1.5Ah battery size with the Makita Compact Tool sub section?

Makita calls their newer circa 2012 batteries "STAR Protection Computer Controls" and some of their older tools can not be used with newer high amp hour Star protected batteries. This is typically the older brushed tools that are not STAR rated. IE: I have an older Makita grinder that will accept the 3.0Ah batteries (Which are STAR rated) but will not accept the 4.0Ah packs nor the 5.0Ah battery packs.

My guess is that they worry more about over discharging a high amp battery back for warranty and safety issues.

. I bet you’re right. My 18volt impact is probably older than I realize, definitely older than my other Makita 18v tools.