Makitas new 18V trim router

[pingvinlakrits]

How can someone in the US get the 8mm collet?

I can get you the part number tomorrow, I have the little plastic bag for it at the work shop. You should be able to get one from a local dealership.

WastedP: glad you like it!
I have used it a couple of days now - still no heavy use - but so far it is a great piece of kit. I will do some small ad hoc routing this week for some minor custom edge profile work in hard material (Staron/Corian) but I am sure it can handle it.

I was going to try hooking it up to the vac with the shroud but I have no great hopes for Festool-ish DC.

I still don't think it will "replace" the OFK500 - the OFK is "just" an edge router which I am happy to have. But, again, if I had to choose just the one small router it would be the Makita for sure.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Most Brushless direct drive motors are simpler to make and quicker to mass produce than their brushed counterparts.

If that was true they would also be cheaper.

From what I have heard the "trouble" with brushless motors used to be that they would not stand up to abuse / knocks very well.
I don't know how they have evolved to find their way in to handtools that are abused on a daily basis.

 

[Steven Owen]

Most Brushless direct drive motors are simpler to make and quicker to mass produce than their brushed counterparts.

If that was true they would also be cheaper.

 

From what I have heard the "trouble" with brushless motors used to be that they would not stand up to abuse / knocks very well.
I don't know how they have evolved to find their way in to handtools that are abused on a daily basis.

Most tools use a solid aluminum cage with shock absorption to protect the motors.  I’ve never had any issues with knocks or drop impacting hand tools.  The case on the tool gets damaged before the motor ever does. 

 

[pingvinlakrits]

How can someone in the US get the 8mm collet?

Makita part number is 763618-5

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Most Brushless direct drive motors are simpler to make and quicker to mass produce than their brushed counterparts.

If that was true they would also be cheaper.

 

From what I have heard the "trouble" with brushless motors used to be that they would not stand up to abuse / knocks very well.
I don't know how they have evolved to find their way in to handtools that are abused on a daily basis.

Most tools use a solid aluminum cage with shock absorption to protect the motors.  I’ve never had any issues with knocks or drop impacting hand tools.  The case on the tool gets damaged before the motor ever does.

Yes, I am sure you are right but I am just reporting what I read in an article a few years back on the topic. I am not saying that was necessarily true or correct and things have certainly evolved since then. I honestly haven't had a single tool motor give up after a fall over the years as far as I can remember, neither brushed nor brushless. I have burnt out a brushless Festool drill - not even pushing it very hard - but I don't think it was the actual motor catching fire.

 

[Steven Owen]

Most Brushless direct drive motors are simpler to make and quicker to mass produce than their brushed counterparts.

If that was true they would also be cheaper.

 

From what I have heard the "trouble" with brushless motors used to be that they would not stand up to abuse / knocks very well.
I don't know how they have evolved to find their way in to handtools that are abused on a daily basis.

Most tools use a solid aluminum cage with shock absorption to protect the motors.  I’ve never had any issues with knocks or drop impacting hand tools.  The case on the tool gets damaged before the motor ever does.

Yes, I am sure you are right but I am just reporting what I read in an article a few years back on the topic. I am not saying that was necessarily true or correct and things have certainly evolved since then. I honestly haven't had a single tool motor give up after a fall over the years as far as I can remember, neither brushed nor brushless. I have burnt out a brushless Festool drill - not even pushing it very hard - but I don't think it was the actual motor catching fire.

Stuff like that will always depend on the quality of tool you’re buying.  Sadly the market is full of this made to spec junk from China to fill spots in flyers for Lowe’s and Home Depot.

If you’re buying Festool, Milwaukee, Dewalt, Mafell, Bosch, and Makita brushless.  You usually don’t have to worry about fragility. 

There’s no shortage of poorly designed tools jumping on the brushless bandwagon to make a quick buck.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

All data depends on who you ask. I dropped by my Mafell dealer / tool repair center the other day. There is no shortage of broken/faulty brushless drills/machines...  ...the idea that they would hold up better than brushed units seem to bear no weight with the repair guys.

They service all brands in one city and currently have 200 repairs in house, all brands. Milwaukee and Makita are there in droves. New Milwaukee drills by the basketful! He even asked me to keep an eye out for a service tech - they are so busy and need to hire more staff. As we spoke for ten minutes three more repairs were walking in... 

He has been in the game quite a few years and is very knowledgeable. He knows which machines last and which don't. Festool stirrers/mixers are very frequent visitors to the repairshop. They stopped selling them because they got so many returns to the service center. And he is a high volume seller of mixers.  We spoke about different tools and different brands and the conclusion was that there is not one brand that has significantly fewer repairs than any other. Possibly Hitachi, in his view, but not all tools of course.

As a whole Festool ranks well, not as good as Mafell or Hitachi and a few other brands but going by percentage of sold units and repair orders they are a bit above average - in a good way. It is nice to have someone to ask "do you get any in for service out of these tools" and he can actually answer it in detail.

 

[Steven Owen]

All data depends on who you ask. I dropped by my Mafell dealer / tool repair center the other day. There is no shortage of broken/faulty brushless drills/machines...  ...the idea that they would hold up better than brushed units seem to bear no weight with the repair guys.

They service all brands in one city and currently have 200 repairs in house, all brands. Milwaukee and Makita are there in droves. New Milwaukee drills by the basketful! He even asked me to keep an eye out for a service tech - they are so busy and need to hire more staff. As we spoke for ten minutes three more repairs were walking in... 

He has been in the game quite a few years and is very knowledgeable. He knows which machines last and which don't. Festool stirrers/mixers are very frequent visitors to the repairshop. They stopped selling them because they got so many returns to the service center. And he is a high volume seller of mixers.  We spoke about different tools and different brands and the conclusion was that there is not one brand that has significantly fewer repairs than any other. Possibly Hitachi, in his view, but not all tools of course.

As a whole Festool ranks well, not as good as Mafell or Hitachi and a few other brands but going by percentage of sold units and repair orders they are a bit above average - in a good way. It is nice to have someone to ask "do you get any in for service out of these tools" and he can actually answer it in detail.

Is there actually enough Mafell sales data to make a fair comparison between Festool and Mafell?  I would think Festool is selling a 1000x more tools in North America vs Mafell.

 

[Michael Kellough]

"Is there actually enough Mafell sales data to make a fair comparison between Festool and Mafell?  I would think Festool is selling a 1000x more tools in North America vs Mafell. "

Henrik and the repair guy he spoke with live in Sweden.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Steve; I have enough data to divvy up all Festool offerings in reliable vs sketchy columns. That data is from the three largest vendors in Sweden - with which I have a personal report with the head of staff on a first name basis. All are high volume sellers and one is an official Festool service center.

Mafell? Info is more scarce - that is for sure given the lower volumes of machines shipping. However the data is there as two of the above are Mafell dealers and at least one is in direct contact with Mafell on a weekly basis. One can always extrapolate those numbers but so far all I can say is that Mafell service returns are extremely low no matter how you work the numbers.

I have added to those numbers myself - on that occasion we did not agree on the problem though - and I still have good reason to think I was right in that matter.  I got a replacement for that machine anyway.

I am not sure I hold Mafell significantly higher in terms of build quality over Festool - but they do have fewer lemons in the line up - and their line up is still quite extensive within their field. I trust all brands on a "per-machine-basis" but I admit I expect more from Festool and Mafell - and sometimes you just don't get that.

 

[Steven Owen]

Steve; I have enough data to divvy up all Festool offerings in reliable vs sketchy columns. That data is from the three largest vendors in Sweden - with which I have a personal report with the head of staff on a first name basis. All are high volume sellers and one is an official Festool service center.

Mafell? Info is more scarce - that is for sure given the lower volumes of machines shipping. However the data is there as two of the above are Mafell dealers and at least one is in direct contact with Mafell on a weekly basis. One can always extrapolate those numbers but so far all I can say is that Mafell service returns are extremely low no matter how you work the numbers.

I have added to those numbers myself - on that occasion we did not agree on the problem though - and I still have good reason to think I was right in that matter.  I got a replacement for that machine anyway.

I am not sure I hold Mafell significantly higher in terms of build quality over Festool - but they do have fewer lemons in the line up - and their line up is still quite extensive within their field. I trust all brands on a "per-machine-basis" but I admit I expect more from Festool and Mafell - and sometimes you just don't get that.

At the price people expect a lot from Mafell and Festool without a doubt.  We really do need a 3rd competitor in the high end tool market with kind of thinking to put more pressure on Festool and Mafell. 

I’d love to see Bosch, Dewalt or Makita step up with pro-lines that offer a higher standard of tool manufacturing.  That would be asking a lot from 3 shareholder culture companies. 

 

[glass1]

I think brushless and brushed motors can handle abuse in different ways. On brushed motors the brushes are sacrificial and take the abuse(obviously limited like the pads on disc brakes). The brushless motors use electronics to measure abuse by measuring heat, when overheated they turn off, without the electronics the brushless motors could easily be destroyed.

 

[WastedP]

...If it holds up to laminate trimmer abuse, then it is awesome.

It’s been getting very stellar reviews so far.  I’d be surprised if it didn’t perform with laminate.

Sorry, I was referring to the level of abuse that I tend to put on laminate trimmers.  Ridiculously deep dadoes done in one pass, for example, or trying to flush trim too much or too thick of material.  It's so easy to bite off more than a laminate trimmer can chew.

The smoothness of this laminate trimmer is on a level above pretty much every other small router I've owned or used (PC, Makita, DeWalt, Bosch, Rigid).  I've never used an MFK 700, so I can't compare it to that.  It's a nice tool to use.  I don't know if that's  because the competitive tools are garbage, or if this one is just really good.

An aside about tool reliability:  When I lived in a different area, I used to buy all of my tools from a dealer that carries all kinds of lines and has their own in-house repair department.  Before making any purchase, I'd take the tool to the back repair counter, and ask them what they thought of it.  They weren't working on commission, so they wouldn't hesitate to tell me if a tool had a major flaw or if a competitive tool was better.  They were good at explaining what components were upgraded from one model in a line to another (i.e., Makita makes something like six different cordless drills at six different price points).

 

[Steven Owen]

...If it holds up to laminate trimmer abuse, then it is awesome.

It’s been getting very stellar reviews so far.  I’d be surprised if it didn’t perform with laminate.

Sorry, I was referring to the level of abuse that I tend to put on laminate trimmers.  Ridiculously deep dadoes done in one pass, for example, or trying to flush trim too much or too thick of material.  It's so easy to bite off more than a laminate trimmer can chew.

The smoothness of this laminate trimmer is on a level above pretty much every other small router I've owned or used (PC, Makita, DeWalt, Bosch, Rigid).  I've never used an MFK 700, so I can't compare it to that.  It's a nice tool to use.  I don't know if that's  because the competitive tools are garbage, or if this one is just really good.

An aside about tool reliability:  When I lived in a different area, I used to buy all of my tools from a dealer that carries all kinds of lines and has their own in-house repair department.  Before making any purchase, I'd take the tool to the back repair counter, and ask them what they thought of it.  They weren't working on commission, so they wouldn't hesitate to tell me if a tool had a major flaw or if a competitive tool was better.  They were good at explaining what components were upgraded from one model in a line to another (i.e., Makita makes something like six different cordless drills at six different price points).

Very few cordless and corded edge trimmers/routers are good.  The Rigid would never make anyone’s list.  For all the positive reviews, I would never use the Dewalt models for any laminate dados.

 

[Llap Goch]

Just to get this thread (almost) back onto the Makita 18v trim router.........I have just received the AimTools (Katsu) offset router base for my DRT50, RT0700 and 240v Katsu trimmers and for £25 delivered, it is an exceptional bit of kit. The Makita OEM version is nearly three times the price and whilst I am sure that it too is excellent, the Katsu base is a cracker and like the other Katsu bases I have, stands up well to the OEM versions in terms of fit and finish.

It comes with an additional knob to mount on the base so that the base, with the offset housing removed, acts as a very effective extension plate.

If anyone is interested in an offset base for any of the Makita palm trimmers, or the Katsu/MerryTools clones at a bargain price, then have a close look at the Katsu version.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SP1017481...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

The Makita 18v trimmer continues to impress and the addition of the two LED lights into the housing top is a brilliant (sic) addition to what is a truly superb, powerful and flexible tool.

 

[Jozsef Kozma]

Is Festool missing a boat in this line
I love the cordless Sanders the power cord
transformer just makes it everything I can ask

 

[DB10]

Is Festool missing a boat in this line
I love the cordless Sanders the power cord
transformer just makes it everything I can ask

Yes, but if Festool were to make a cordless trimmer imo, it would need to run on the same system as their 4.2 & 5.2 batteries to compete with the Makita trimmer.

 

[Jozsef Kozma]

Agreed

 

[Steven Owen]

StevenOwen:

The OFK500 is still the best balanced edge router I have used to date. It would be super if they churned out an 18V'er - that would be the edge routers dream machine for me, if the balance was as good. 

Still, the Makita is surprisingly well balanced as an edge router with a battery on top.
If I had to let one go or just keep one edge router I would keep the Makita  - the slight difference in user ergonomics  is offset by the lack of a cord.

It is better balanced than the Virutex that the Makita replaced. The Virutex is a nice machine with soft start and runs quiet. The Makita has that too, has lower center of gravity  and adds the LED - awesome.

Is it a game changer? Dunno, but Makita shows the competition that it is possible to make a great little 18V router that does not feel weaker than a small corded one. All the "cheap" add ons are just gravy on top. Will make good use of the tilting base tomorrow after thinking of what could be done with it.   

I haven't pushed the machine or made any strenous routing with it but so far I am very impressed.

I picked up the correct collet for it today and will continue the first project with it tomorrow morning; two bedside tables in massive Oak with Staron/Corian tops. Commissioned by the missus and made by "left-overs" from a side board I built years ago that we don't need any longer.

Festool has the best ergonomics.  An 18 V would be a huge improvement.  It might also come down to the law of diminishing returns.  The Festool would be better, you would have to justify paying 3 times the price for a handful of minor advantages.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Steven and Jozsef: true!

I might be in the minority but I like the OFK500 router bits. I would continue using them if they were to release an 18V OFK but I am not holding my breath. The German Rep said that the new battery shape and transformer opened up a lot of new possibilities for them and he was genuinely interested in our thoughts on the matter. When pushing for a battery OFK it was clear they were not exactly working on one...  ...but after some discussion it was clear to us both that they have a slightly different approach to dust collection and other regulations in Germany. 

After giving him a few examples of use - and mentioning the Makita a few times too many  [wink] he did catch on to the idea. I made sure to push for a Vecturo. And a Nail Gun. And a lot of other things.  [big grin]

However the only confirmation I could squeeze out of him was that an 18V impact is as good as ready and will most likely hit the market next year. That and a new smooth and flexible vac hose that will pretty much eliminate rail drag.