Manual vs Powered Jointer

[sylthecru]

Hello All,

I am in the market for a jointer. After attending a Lei-Nielsen event this weekend I have questioned purchasing either a No.7 or 8 jointer Plane from Lie-Nielsen or Veritas in place of a powered jointer.

between the Lie-Nielsen and Veritas this jointer stood out to me because of the optional side fence.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=52414&cat=1,41182,48944,52414

The powered jointer that I had in mind is the Rigid Jointer

The final reason I am leaning towards the manual jointer is I am trying to learn as much as possible from my dad while he is still here and able to teach me the proper way to use hand tools.

I would like everyone opinion on both options if possible.  Also my workshop is currently one side of my two car garage so space is an issue.

 

[cliffp]

I have the Veritas BU jointer plane and like it. I find the adjustment for the blade easy to use (prefer it to the Lee Nielsen type of adjuster for BU planes or the frog based arrangement on BD planes).

I haven't had much success with the jointer fence but it may be just lack of practice. To me it is quite enough to think about to ensure that the front of the plane is flat to the wood at the start of the stroke and then shift weight to the back at the end of the stroke without having to worry about simultaneously applying side pressure on the fence. I had better results when the sole of the plane was vertical and the fence horizontal.

I also have a planer thicknesser (what you call a jointer/planer) and find this far better. Mine is a Hammer A3-26. It doesn't leave as perfect a finish as a hand plane (tiny almost imperceptible scallop shapes) but it can be made perfect with a stroke or two of a hand plane set to take a very fine shaving. Because you would be removing so little you don't have to worry about making it non-square.

My advice would be to get a jointer/planer or just jointer plus a shorter plane for smoothing (something between a 4 and a 5 1/2)

 

[bdiemer]

Hi
  I'll start off with #7 or #8 hand plane. The only reason I would ever purchase a #8 would be to complete a collection. I have been using a # 7 for untold too many years and NEVER wished I had a #8. As far as room in the shop, one may say the hand plane fits on the shelf. The truth is to get the most out of hand planes, you need a big heavy workbench with several hold down options. The workbench takes up much more room than the powered jointer that you're looking at. The learning curve on a power jointer is almost nothing, compared to hand planes.
  That being said, I would never discourage someone from taking on hand tools. That satisfaction of making something with hand tools is beyond compare. Even though after a hand tool day, my hands are often cut up, the reality is hand tools are much safer.
  The Lie Nielsen V/S Veritas is a never ending question. To me Lie Nielsen is more traditional and Veritas is old school with a twist. I use both. In many cases the fence may reduce the learning curve. A bit of a warning : High quality hand tools are just as addictive as Festool.

 

[grbmds]

I'm sure you will get answers that cover a wide range, from going all hand tools to all power tools. . . For me, personally, though, over the time I've been oosorking, I find I have moved toward using the tools that get the best results and use my time efficiently. I do this for a hobby and enjoy seeing high quality end results whether done with power or hand tools. With jointing, I invested in an 8" jointer a few years ago because I have found out that I just don't have the patience to flatten or joint with a hand plane and get acceptable results. While it's true that, with practice, you get better at using a hand plane, I get much better results quicker with a powered jointer and planer. I do own hand planes - a block, a smoother, a chisel, and a jointer, but I use them to get a final smooth surface, break an edge, plane end grain to square it up, adjust the size of a drawer front. For me, what helps me enjoy woodworking is using the tool that I get the best results with, whether hand or powered. Hand planes are a great investment and buying high quality from Lee Valley or Lie-Nielsen makes the most sense so they last the rest of your life and you get the best possible results. They are also a good learning tool to teach you the basic concepts which sometimes you don't learn when using power tools. And, the bonus, for you in this case, is you get to work with your dad to learn how to use the hand planes. To me, that is the best reason to start out with hand planes. Everything you learn will be of value to you in the future, whether you stick with mostly hand tools or invest in power tools later on.

 

[greg mann]

I agree. Get the hand plane and learn as much as you can from your dad. Even if you learn nothing it will be time well spent. The plane will become a pleasant reminder.

 

[JeremyH.]

I agree with Greg.

But I'll make a few comments on joiners.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I imagine it's much easier to jointer a 12' board on a powered unit, entirely flat.

However some wood, such as maple, tends to get awful tear outs on a powered joiner. You're better off to get a finish edge any other way; such as a hand tool, tablesaw 3* sand-disc, tracksaw and hand sand, anything else.

The lighter and cheaper powered ones will fight you for a finished edge. The movement will contribute to a ripple look in the wood from changes in pressure - it also stains poorly. If you go very slowly you can avoid it and with many woods get a finished edge. (still hard to do, board must stay perfect upright, keep it moving, and keep pressure on it so it doesn't go up and down)

 

[fshanno]

You might check out Ebay for vintage Stanley planes.  You can also find vintage fences for jointing planes.  A fence makes all the difference.  I rigged a wooden fence up for my Stanley No. 7 and it made edge jointing possible.  Without the fence forget it.  I've got no touch at all. 

I have that little Rigid jointer you mention.  Definitely a best value kind of tool.  You can face plane and joint boards up to about 60".  Nice little tool.  The blades that came on it are very good.  It's not going to yield a surface as nice as a hand plane.  I use a sanding block with a fence if I need to finish a jointed edge before glue up. 

 

[Kev]

A quality #7 if you are doing this for the passion would be my choice.

I'd avoid the Rigid personally ... if you want a power planer, save up and get something good.

Also look into sharpening. It's an important skill in the proficient use of hand planes.

 

[Holmz]

Hello All,

I am in the market for a jointer. After attending a Lei-Nielsen event this weekend I have questioned purchasing either a No.7 or 8 jointer Plane from Lie-Nielsen or Veritas in place of a powered jointer.

between the Lie-Nielsen and Veritas this jointer stood out to me because of the optional side fence.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=52414&cat=1,41182,48944,52414

The powered jointer that I had in mind is the Rigid Jointer

The final reason I am leaning towards the manual jointer is I am trying to learn as much as possible from my dad while he is still here and able to teach me the proper way to use hand tools.

I would like everyone opinion on both options if possible.  Also my workshop is currently one side of my two car garage so space is an issue.

I have one of these and I love it.
ECE Primus Jointer Plane 701
About 1/2 way down the page.

http://www.fine-tools.com/rauh.html

The only issue is that you need a book on sharpening, and some stones or a grinder.

I also have one of these for smaller work:

 

[Holmz]

Hello All,

I am in the market for a jointer. After attending a Lei-Nielsen event this weekend I have questioned purchasing either a No.7 or 8 jointer Plane from Lie-Nielsen or Veritas in place of a powered jointer.

between the Lie-Nielsen and Veritas this jointer stood out to me because of the optional side fence.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=52414&cat=1,41182,48944,52414

The powered jointer that I had in mind is the Rigid Jointer

The final reason I am leaning towards the manual jointer is I am trying to learn as much as possible from my dad while he is still here and able to teach me the proper way to use hand tools.

I would like everyone opinion on both options if possible.  Also my workshop is currently one side of my two car garage so space is an issue.

I have one of these and I love it.
ECE Primus Jointer Plane 701
About 1/2 way down the page.

http://www.fine-tools.com/rauh.html

I also have one of these for smaller work:

The only issue is that you need a book on sharpening, and some stones or a grinder.

I am now using a Tormak T7 and a 3000gr Japanese stone for about 10 seconds after the Tormek to really get the blade sharp.

There is a swiss disposable 'Rali' plane that looks interesting.

 

[Birdhunter]

Planes are fun and I have a shop full of LN planes, but a good power jointer and planer are way faster. I like the helical head models with bunches of square carbide cutters. They leave an amazingly smooth surface. If the cutters get dull of damaged, just rotate them to expose a new cutting surface.

 

[grbmds]

A quality #7 if you are doing this for the passion would be my choice.

I'd avoid the Rigid personally ... if you want a power planer, save up and get something good.

Also look into sharpening. It's an important skill in the proficient use of hand planes.

I agree on the power jointer or planer. You will likely be sorry buying cheap. I don't know about the Ridgid jointer but a good edge can be hard to get on a mediocre jointer. As for the hand planes, I would recommend starting with a new rather than used plane unless you are also interested in spending time restoring or tuning up the plane. With a new plane from either Lee Valley Veritas or Lie-Nielsen, you will have the right starting point; a high quality plane with a blade that is already flat on the backside, only requiring some honing to start. That way you can get into actually using it more quickly and, as the plane needs further sharpening, learn that process as you need to. If your father has woodworking experience he will be able to work with you on the sharpening also.

 

[Birdhunter]

Unless you have really really sharp plane irons, hand planes can be very disappointing, even the best ones.

I tried just about every sharpening system on the market before I tried  Work Sharp. It uses sandpaper disks glued to glass disks. I can put a glassy shine on a chisel or plane iron in minutes.

There is no "goop" as there is with water stones and, with care, no burning of the steel.

 

[Kev]

Unless you have really really sharp plane irons, hand planes can be very disappointing, even the best ones.

I tried just about every sharpening system on the market before I tried  Work Sharp. It uses sandpaper disks glued to glass disks. I can put a glassy shine on a chisel or plane iron in minutes.

There is no "goop" as there is with water stones and, with care, no burning of the steel.

care is the really important thing with a Worksharp. The nature of the Worksharp will make it very easy to overheat a blade if you're too aggressive. If you get a Worksharp don't make the first thing you sharpen your most expensive steel [wink]

(To be certain, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the Worksharp)

 

[Birdhunter]

You are right about being careful with the Work Sharp. Their video shows a touch & retract motion that keeps the tool from overheating. It does produce an incredibly sharp edge that's easy to touch up quickly.

My LN planes can now produce long curls of shavings I can see through.