Merbau Chrissy table, a work in progress

[ROb McGilp]

Hi Woodentop,
I am sensitive to your concerns and would like to let you know that, prior to making any project, I like to review the status of the timber I wish to use, so as to have as little impact upon the planet as possible. I did this with Merbau and in my naivete, believed what I read. A more intensive review reveals that people at both ends of the spectrum, (endangered v common) are quite vocal. I pride myself on making rational decisions, so while you seem convinced by the endangered lobby, the jury is still out for me. Call this convenient if you like. I also ensure that I buy from reputable timber merchants and thus pay premium price so as to ensure that I am buying timber logged in conformity with sustainable, or, at minimum, supervised or approved harvests.
Just a note,though. You didn't really answer Eli's question as to the kinds of timber you DO use. "lots" isn't really an answer.
It seems to me that we, in Australia, are a little more concerned about conservation of timber resource than your countrymen. We do not import old growth Honduran mahogany or Brazilian Rosewood for example. While you have taken the edge off a table that I am proud of, I feel that I have done the best I can to ensure that I made what I wanted, while performing as much Due Diligence as possible.
Have a happy Holiday season and enjoy your woodwork.
Also for the record, fairly disappointed.

Rob McGilp

 

[The Woodentop]

Rob, sorry for the disappointment. Truly. But I like to remind my fellow woodworkers that we need to be careful.

As for my countrymen, I'm not really sure who you mean? You may know that I live in England at present but I should tell you I'm not a native.

And as for the answer to Eli's question, without wanting to appear evasive, I wouldn't want to begin a list for him or you. What I can tell you is I avoid rainforest timber at all costs. The jury might be out on the subject but I've seen enough evidence to convince me. Remember, the Americans are still questioning global warming! Not individual Americans but their reps in government at any rate. Now that takes some believing. Some of us are a little more ready to accept the 'disappointing' than others however much we'd prefer not to.

I hope you enjoy your table which looks excellent. I agree that you did a responsible job on the diligence front and, for that, I applaud you.

Larry

PS

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Ipil or merbau is a tree that grows in mangroves in Southeast Asia and islands in the Pacific Ocean. It is a member of the tropical Caesalpiniaceae family. It grows to around 50 meters (160 feet) tall with a highly buttressed trunk. It is the official tree of the United States territory of Guam.

Due to extensive logging of the tree, it is endangered in many places in Southeast Asia, and almost extinct in some. Extensive amounts have been purchased for the venue of the 2008 Olympics. The wood is used for flooring in US and European markets where it is commonly sold under different names. Both licensed and unlicensed mills harvest the wood.

 

[Ned]

...But I like to remind my fellow woodworkers that we need to be careful.

Spoilsport as a moral position.  How deeply satisfying that must be for you.

...Remember, the Americans are still questioning global warming! Not individual Americans ...

Wrong.  Sensible people around the world question various aspects of global warming.  This makes it difficult for the Ecos pushing their New Totalitarianism.

Some of us are a little more ready to accept the 'disappointing' than others however much we'd prefer not to.

...And we are all so grateful that you exist as a moral compass for us...

Once we decided to dismiss God from His responsibilities, that left a void of uncomfortable meaninglessness.  Unless..wait a minute..if there's nothing higher than us...we must be in charge...and capable. And from that point on, the fleas, full of hubris, thought they were in charge of the dog.

Let me be clear.  We understand only small bits of our world.  Small bits of the present, even less of the past, and virtually nothing of the future.  Humans are unable to reliably predict whether it will rain next week--predicting long-range trends is simply laughable.  We don't know, and it is my belief that we can't know.

The only thing that is certain about global warming is that it looks to be an excellent vehicle to power over others by the innately bossy among us--you know, those who at one time would have been saying "Don't you know there's a war on?"

What Larry the Woodentop should take away from this note is that--shock!--some here do not subscribe to his faith, and that even though he has found the True Way, FOG isn't the place to bear witness to his religious beliefs.

This forum is not the place for a debate on such things.  I speak up here--once--only because I am tired of tolerating the intolerant.

Ned

 

[The Woodentop]

Who on earth brought in religion? Not me!

You won't hear again from me on this topic. I've said what I wanted said and you may all take from it what you will.

Happy woodworking.

Larry

 

[Eli]

At least be honest with yourself. People being happy is exactly the opposite of what you're into. I'd prefer not to hear from you on any topic.

PS-for the record, when I first moved to Melbourne, having never met me, Rob picked me up from my house and drove me around to four or five timber places and showed me where to get recycled and sustainably harvested wood. Thus far out of everyone I've met he's one of only two guys I know locally that even think twice about it. So it's ironic that you'd punch him right in the spot he's most sensitive. 

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Just want to say Rob that I like the table, well done on getting it finshed in time for Xmas lunch nice work! Melbourne had a far mor palatable temperature for Xmas lunches than we did over in the west believe me. Did you worry about people putting their glasses on the table?

 

[ROb McGilp]

Hi LF,
Chrissy day was very pleasant weatherwise, but we'll be getting your high 30's-low 40's over the next week.
I've got to say that the Interstain finish I usede is great stuff. I had my wife rolling with laughter when I said I had to move the table back under cover when a shower went over. No marks from the water and no food/glass marks on the timber. The product is >60% wood turpentine. Not sure what the rest is.

Regards,

Rob

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought there are sources of tropical (rain forrest) wood products available that are produced from managed plots.  Check out Weyerhauser's website (lumber and pulpwood trees grown in Brazil which are mature in about 15 years!) and others for some examples.  Trees and the products that come from them are renewable resources.  If we cut down a tree, and make durable products from it, and plant a replacement tree (or more), we end up with a net reduction in atmospheric carbon dioxide.  If we let the original trees die and rot, we do not.  As a chemical engineer, I am not entirely convinced by the followers of Chicken Little regarding global warming, its causes and our ability or need to try to reverse it.  I do agree that everyone should attempt to conserve natural resources, but different people hold very different views on what are appropriate conservation/consumption measures.  Enough said, over and out on this topic for me.

Dave R.

 

[Anthony]

I can't help but continue the hijacking of Rob's thread. - Nice table Rob.

There are a few topics here: conservation of timbers, conservation of natural eco-systems (including threatened or extinct fauna), and climate change. All are interconnected, but not all are equally involved when we choose timber for our personal or business projects. We could talk about the interactions, impacts, and what people believe as truth, until the cows come home - which is not a bad thing. We all need to think about our consumer choices with the information we have available to us, and hopefully choose wisely and with an unselfish attitude.

I am not entirely convinced by the followers of Chicken Little regarding global warming, its causes and our ability or need to try to reverse it.
Dave R.

Without trying to start an argument, I would like to challenge your above comment Dave. Is it not sensible to err on the side of caution with respect to climate change. What can we loose to be cautious - a cautious approach is controlled and considered. A natural disaster hurts a whole lot more. I believe we do need to reverse climate change to the best of our human abilities (whether it is natural phenomenon or man made). I don't need television or a celebrity to make me aware of this. I only need to look around me to know (see below re state of Oz). It's what I can't see in underprivileged countries that would really frighten the hell out of me I am sure.

I am guessing Dave, that you don't live here in Australia where we are now experiencing an unprecedented drought, many farms are considered just plain dead and the farmers have walked away from them as it's very unlikely they'll recover again for the benefit of human food production. Water is pretty scarce in the country, and a majority of city reservoirs around the country are at all time lows due to continued reduction in rainfall. I also assume you are not a resident of a small Pacific island which is suffering from a little bit to much water, and are unlikely to ever see waters recede again.

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Without trying to start an argument, I would like to challenge your above comment Dave...

You may not be trying to start one, but it is very likely that an argument will be the result!  The subject of Global Warming/Climate Change is a very controversial topic where people on both sides defend their view rigorously. Discussing it on a public forum is like discussing race, religion and politics - it will just result in heated argument and bad feeling between participants, and other members will get fed up with both camps for discussing the subject in a forum entitled "Festool Tools in Action".

I might even go as far as suggesting that Global Warming/Climate Change is added to the following paragraph of Matthew's "General Forum Rules and Etiquette":

Avoid discussions about race, ethnicity, gender, religion, and politics.  There are times when these topics can lead to enjoyable discussions, but please tread lightly here!  Don't say anything about someone else that you would not like someone to say about you!

Forrest

 

[Anthony]

Without trying to start an argument, I would like to challenge your above comment Dave...

You may not be trying to start one, but it is very likely that an argument will be the result!  The subject of Global Warming/Climate Change is a very controversial topic where people on both sides defend their view rigorously. Discussing it on a public forum is like discussing race, religion and politics - it will just result in heated argument and bad feeling between participants, and other members will get fed up with both camps for discussing the subject in a forum entitled "Festool Tools in Action".

I might even go as far as suggesting that Global Warming/Climate Change is added to the following paragraph of Matthew's "General Forum Rules and Etiquette":

Avoid discussions about race, ethnicity, gender, religion, and politics.  There are times when these topics can lead to enjoyable discussions, but please tread lightly here!  Don't say anything about someone else that you would not like someone to say about you!

Forrest

I don't disagree with you Forrest that an argument may ensue.  I don't want to argue. If i did I would have begun an email with something like "your ignorant *&%&@*, you are wrong, and I am right, you should be ashamed of yourself for taking in breath." Which I did not! As fun as that would be for some members to watch, it is an argumentative response - no question, and it would certainly detract from the enjoyment of the FOG for the majority.

I indicated in my comments about "discussing until cows come home", that rational discussion is still a good thing even though it can get a bit dicey. But this is an important topic from whatever POV people take, and not discussing it is worse. We should not be afraid to speak-up or seek fair debate on controversial topics.

I disagree with you that the environment is akin to race, ethnicity, gender, and religious topics. It may be political to some, but that is not how I see it. Unlike the other topics that should be avoided as per the FOG rules, selection of timber resources, like the selection of the resources that make up the tools we use is relevant to many FOG users.

What I do agree with you, is (even though I also helped take the thread off topic) that this thread may not be the place. Discussion on public forums is just what some topics need, but other places on the FOG may be better, and I am happy to contribute to a thread on responsible resource selection somewhere else if it arises.

 

[Ned]

You may not be trying to start one, but it is very likely that an argument will be the result!  ...
I might even go as far as suggesting that Global Warming/Climate Change is added to the following paragraph of Matthew's "General Forum Rules and Etiquette":

Avoid discussions about race, ethnicity, gender, religion, and politics.  There are times when these topics can lead to enjoyable discussions, but please tread lightly here!  Don't say anything about someone else that you would not like someone to say about you!

I agree with Forrest.  It seems perfectly proper to mention that you used wood, say, salvaged from an old mill, in part because it says something about the wood.  To go on beyond that and claim some ethical mandate to do so is irrelevant and risky on FOG.  There are plenty of places on the net and off to have those discussions.

I'm not sure that climate change, etc. needs to be added to the list of topics to be avoided--both religion and politics are already listed. 

I see Anthony's just posted.  I can agree with him that there ought to be a separate area for this kind of discussion, rather than hijacking a useful thread.  Unfortunately, he goes on to say "discussion on public forums is just what some topics need", which is precisely the claim used to justify going on about someone's pet point of view.

I'm here for the Festools.  I'm interested in what other people have to say about Festools.  I'm delighted if we find we have other things in common, besides Festools.  But I can learn from people with whom I have little in common, except Festools.  If we find areas of disagreement, then I'm going to avoid them, because that would get in the way of talking about Festools.  I expect reciprocal courtesy in this--that is, don't bring up irritating things that have nothing to do with Festools.  Whether an irritating topic is God or Gaia, true or not, important or not, doesn't matter, since we're here to discuss Festools.

Ned

 

[Anthony]

I see Anthony's just posted.  I can agree with him that there ought to be a separate area for this kind of discussion, rather than hijacking a useful thread.  Unfortunately, he goes on to say "discussion on public forums is just what some topics need", which is precisely the claim used to justify going on about someone's pet point of view.

Hi Ned.

I do mean it's important to discuss the topic on public forums. But as agreed, put it in the right place. Sorry if this was not clear in my response.

I'm here for the Festools.  I'm interested in what other people have to say about Festools.  I'm delighted if we find we have other things in common, besides Festools.  But I can learn from people with whom I have little in common, except Festools.  If we find areas of disagreement, then I'm going to avoid them, because that would get in the way of talking about Festools.  I expect reciprocal courtesy in this--that is, don't bring up irritating things that have nothing to do with Festools.  Whether an irritating topic is God or Gaia, true or not, important or not, doesn't matter, since we're here to discuss Festools.

I am also here for the Festools. I also have a thing about environmental and social responsibility. Which brings me back to my choice is using and selling Festools. But that's a topic for another thread, another day.

Hope there is no hard feelings guys - I don't harbour any.

 

[Eli]

So anyway, you all met Anthony, the OTHER guy I know that gives a damn where wood comes from.  ;D

Let's just start a global warming thread, and leave poor Rob and his table alone. Meet you over there.