Metal working

[Jeff2413]

Hey folks, good afternoon.  I've loved working with wood since high school (I'm now 44) and have been a self employed carpenter for the past 14.  I have recently gotten the itch to add metal to some of the rustic furniture I've been building and was wondering if anyone can tell me the basic tools I'll need to get started?  Obviously a welder (wire fed), grinder, cut off saw, etc. but is there anything else that I am going to need thats going to be a "holy crap I didn't realize I needed that" sorta tool that's gonna require an application and a credit check?    Thanks!

 

[Wuffles]

I'm not sure a wire fed is an obvious welder to buy as it does depend on what you are trying to stick together.

I only say as I am going through a similar situation and what I was intending to stick together is better suited to stick welding. Apparently. I still have no idea though.

 

[Jeff2413]

Hmmm.....I've actually done a lot more welding with sticks than I have wire.  Guess I'll have to ask the mighty Google.

 

[Cheese]

It really depends upon the material you choose to incorporate into the furniture. Aluminum, stainless, brass, copper or cold rolled steel all fabricate differently.

My suggestion would be to pick one, say aluminum, and try working with it and see how much you enjoy the task. Working with metal is a dirty process and some people just don't care for it. Aluminum is nice because you can work it with some of the woodworking tools you already own. Then if you decide it's not for you, you're not out that much.

 

[jbasen]

It really depends upon the material you choose to incorporate into the furniture. Aluminum, stainless, brass, copper or cold rolled steel all fabricate differently.

My suggestion would be to pick one, say aluminum, and try working with it and see how much you enjoy the task. Working with metal is a dirty process and some people just don't care for it. Aluminum is nice because you can work it with some of the woodworking tools you already own. Then if you decide it's not for you, you're not out that much.

I completely agree. I am a hobbyist building arts and crafts furniture. I incorporate a lot of copper elements in my furniture. I have a shear for cutting, a brake for bending, hammers for texturing, chasing tools for adding decoration, a plumbers torch for soldering, a kiln for adding enamel (melted glass) to the copper, and a host of smaller hand tools. There are also spcialized chemicals for adding patina to the metal.

As Cheese said, it depends on what you are trying to do and what metal you want to work with

 

[Holmz]

Having welded some copper, I can tell you it takes a lot of current and it is not done with a stick or a wire feeder.

 

[rvieceli]

When you say add some metal to rustic furniture... I get the impression that means some welded metal bases, maybe chair frames and stuff like that. If so then you need to be able to weld good enough for the stuff to hold together and look good too.

Let me make a couple of suggestions. Check around and see if there is a junior college, a vo-tech school or a high school that offers adult ed classes in welding. Our local junior college offers a basic welding class that meets three hours a week  for 10 weeks and introduces you to gas, mig and stick welding. It will give you an idea of what's involved and you'll be using their equipment not yours. the folks there should be able to suggest what you need to do what you want.

The other suggestion is in the meantime find a fabricator in your area. Can be a pro or a talented amateur. If you can draw a picture on a napkin, they can generally speaking make it for you. You may find that it is cheaper than you think and you'll probably get a better product. You have skills that you even be able to barter for work.

ron

 

[lumbajac]

If you haven't purchased your welder yet and can swing about $2K, I'd consider the Miller Multimatic. Small, light, but good quality (for your purpose) unit that you can MIG, TIG, and stick weld with all in one unit: http://store.cyberweld.com/mimu200wtigc.html?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=bingshopping&utm_campaign=@@ID@@

 

[teocaf]

Yes, as it's already been said, it depends a great deal on what metal you'll be using and how thick it will be, among other things.  That will determine your welder, your shielding gases, etc, etc.
 
To keep it as simple as possible without getting to overwhelming, here are just a few resources:

-The Complete Metalsmith by Tim McCreight--a great book that covers a lot of materials and processes in a nice, easy to read format.
-Sculpt Nouveau--a very good source for hot and cold patina chemicals for metal.  It's important to note that if you plan on doing patinas, you should choose cold rolled steel, unless you want to spend a tremendous amount of time and consumables getting the slag off the hot rolled steel.
-Miller 375 xtreme plasma cutter--a versatile cutter for 120/220V in a compact design
-The Miller Multimatic that's been suggested looks like a very good multimode welder, but I don't know much about it.  It must have replaced the Miller Passport Plus that I use so if you can find an MPP used, that would be a good choice as well.  The Passport Plus is one I know well and here are a few reasons I chose it for my use:  you can operate it in both 120 and 220V, it can use the big gas tanks as well as the small CO2 air gun tanks.  You can do aluminum with it in MIG mode using a spray transfer method by using an aluminum spool gun and argon gas.  It can also do stainless with a trimix gas.
-If you do bronze, a good source is Atlas Metals in Colorado.  they can sell you partial sheets and also the bronze mig wire.
-a nice option for cutting can be the Milwaukee corded bandsaw set up in a stand like SWAG makes.

Metalworking is a tremendously vast field of options, materials, processes, equipment, etc.  Just figure out the specifics on your first project and get a few simple things to get that done, even if you have to borrow or rent a welder.  That will give you a good idea before you start buying all kinds of stuff.  Borrow the book at the library and look online for the kind of metal stuff you want to put in your work.  Feel free to PM me with any specific questions.  It's hard, hot work, but there's something visually interesting about mixing materials such as wood and metal that makes it worthwhile. 

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I got into metal working/machining so I could fix my old woodworking machinery.

That was when I started swimming in the deep end. 

 

[Kev]

A big expense is any sort of mill if you want to shape, lathe if you want to turn.

Sheet ? ... If you want to fold stuff, bend stuff ... there's a cost.

Pipe ? ... Want to bend it?

My advice is to be very cautious moving down this path if you're coming from little experience as you can spend massive amounts of cash [eek]

Alternate, are you in a position to team up with a metal worker and make pieces together while you learn?

 

[tallgrass]

i think i am going to through a wrench into this. i would tell you to learn how to gas weld first. the equipment will give you the greatest flexibility in what you can do. Brazing, welding. limited heat treating and on on on. The key to good welding heat management and the movement of the puddle. this skill is transferrable to stick mig tig. Welding is a very deep pool, but a good understanding of the fundamentals will go further than a dedicated bit of kit for an application. In my shop i have mig tig gas. Each has its benefits, however in time you will understand what specialized gear you want as your skills and needs grow. You will not out grow gas, wont need to rewire your shop and so on. i would suggest until you can gas weld simple steel stamps with gas look no further.it is also quiet, slow, and will let you know what you are doing. just a thought. 

 

[sae]

If you haven't purchased your welder yet and can swing about $2K, I'd consider the Miller Multimatic. Small, light, but good quality (for your purpose) unit that you can MIG, TIG, and stick weld with all in one unit: http://store.cyberweld.com/mimu200wtigc.html?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=bingshopping&utm_campaign=@@ID@@

The Multimatic is a decent rig, but note that it doesn't do AC TIG, which means you're only TIGing steel.

I'd personally get both a MIG and a TIG so you can do aluminum as well.

 

[teocaf]

If you haven't purchased your welder yet and can swing about $2K, I'd consider the Miller Multimatic. Small, light, but good quality (for your purpose) unit that you can MIG, TIG, and stick weld with all in one unit: http://store.cyberweld.com/mimu200wtigc.html?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=bingshopping&utm_campaign=@@ID@@

The Multimatic is a decent rig, but note that it doesn't do AC TIG, which means you're only TIGing steel.

I'd personally get both a MIG and a TIG so you can do aluminum as well.

or you can just get the spool mate aluminum gun and mig weld aluminum with the multimatic using the spray transfer method.

ac tig is great but it is more technique intensive--probably beyond the scope of the OP to incorporate a bit of metal into his work.  however, it is true that aluminum is a good metal option because like it has been pointed out you can use your existing woodworking tools with nonferrous blades to work the material.  however again, since he mentioned the rustic look, casting aluminum might go better visually with that, and there are a number of ways to do that cheaply on a small scale in your garage, but also a bit more dangerous.

 

[greg mann]

I would not consider any metalworking if I did not have a drill press capable of easily drilling a 1/2 inch hole in steel. Drilling holes is the most fundamental metalworking process there is. After that, sawing, milling, tapping, turning and boring........and welding of course.......$$$$$$ [poke]

Good thing Festool has got you used to spending money. ;D

 

[teocaf]

I would not consider any metalworking if I did not have a drill press capable of easily drilling a 1/2 inch hole in steel. Drilling holes is the most fundamental metalworking process there is.

sorry, but i find that to be a most ridiculous statement.  it's an absolutist stance that takes a very narrow view of the vast subject of metalworking.  you can do lots and lots of all kinds of metalwork without drilling any holes.  in steel and many other metals.

and you can also create all kinds of holes without a drill press.  oxy acetylene torch, plasma cutter, mag drill, hand held drill, die grinder, use a punch or nibbler for thinner or softer metals, etc. 

you can also work with perforated material that's not necessarily drilled, cast aluminum for example in a form that will create a hole, fasten metal without bolts or welding, insert worked metal sheet goods into wood grooves, on and on;  those are just a few examples off the top of my head.

 

[greg mann]

I would not consider any metalworking if I did not have a drill press capable of easily drilling a 1/2 inch hole in steel. Drilling holes is the most fundamental metalworking process there is.

sorry, but i find that to be a most ridiculous statement.  it's an absolutist stance that takes a very narrow view of the vast subject of metalworking.  you can do lots and lots of all kinds of metalwork without drilling any holes.  in steel and many other metals.

and you can also create all kinds of holes without a drill press.  oxy acetylene torch, plasma cutter, mag drill, hand held drill, die grinder, etc.  you can also work with perforated material that's not necessarily drilled;  those are just a few examples off the top of my head.

To each his own. "all kinds of holes" says it all. Try putting a precise hole exactly where you need it with any of your chosen tools. A decent drill press will smoke 'em all. The only one you mention that will do a decent job at that is the mag drill, which is just a portable drill press. Disagree if you wish but my opinion cannot be written off as 'ridiculous' so easily. There is nothing more fundamental in metalworking than the capability to drill holes and there is nothing more economically positioned to do that than a drill press.

Interestingly, Par Warner claims the most important accessory to his router is his drill press. Go figure.

 

[rmwarren]

I would not consider any metalworking if I did not have a drill press capable of easily drilling a 1/2 inch hole in steel. Drilling holes is the most fundamental metalworking process there is.

sorry, but i find that to be a most ridiculous statement.  it's an absolutist stance that takes a very narrow view of the vast subject of metalworking.  you can do lots and lots of all kinds of metalwork without drilling any holes.  in steel and many other metals.

and you can also create all kinds of holes without a drill press.  oxy acetylene torch, plasma cutter, mag drill, hand held drill, die grinder, etc.  you can also work with perforated material that's not necessarily drilled;  those are just a few examples off the top of my head.

To each his own. "all kinds of holes" says it all. Try putting a precise hole exactly where you need it with any of your chosen tools. A decent drill press will smoke 'em all. The only one you mention that will do a decent job at that is the mag drill, which is just a portable drill press. Disagree if you wish but my opinion cannot be written off as 'ridiculous' so easily. There is nothing more fundamental in metalworking than the capability to drill holes and there is nothing more economically positioned to do that than a drill press.

Interestingly, Par Warner claims the most important accessory to his router is his drill press. Go figure.

I'll back you on those opinions Greg, my little (old/used craigslist $100) Rockwell/Delta DP is one of my most frequently used metal working tools. For the record I do about as much metal as wood in my shop.

And www.patwarner.com is a great place to spend an your of your life marveling at how precise a guy can be with pretty simple tools.

RMW

 

[teocaf]

I would not consider any metalworking if I did not have a drill press capable of easily drilling a 1/2 inch hole in steel. Drilling holes is the most fundamental metalworking process there is.

sorry, but i find that to be a most ridiculous statement.  it's an absolutist stance that takes a very narrow view of the vast subject of metalworking.  you can do lots and lots of all kinds of metalwork without drilling any holes.  in steel and many other metals.

and you can also create all kinds of holes without a drill press.  oxy acetylene torch, plasma cutter, mag drill, hand held drill, die grinder, etc.  you can also work with perforated material that's not necessarily drilled;  those are just a few examples off the top of my head.

To each his own. "all kinds of holes" says it all. Try putting a precise hole exactly where you need it with any of your chosen tools. A decent drill press will smoke 'em all. The only one you mention that will do a decent job at that is the mag drill, which is just a portable drill press. Disagree if you wish but my opinion cannot be written off as 'ridiculous' so easily. There is nothing more fundamental in metalworking than the capability to drill holes and there is nothing more economically positioned to do that than a drill press.

Interestingly, Par Warner claims the most important accessory to his router is his drill press. Go figure.

I don't know who Par is but I speak from my own experience in the shop combining wood and metal.  There is no doubt that a drill press is indeed a great and useful tool for both woodworking and metalworking.  The point of contention is in your first sentence:  "not consider ANY Metalworking"--that covers a whole lot of ground and whether you meant to or not, should not discourage someone like the OP to forgo considering metalworking altogether if he does not have a drill press.  I'm saying that YES, you can consider quite a few examples of metalworking without the beautiful hole.  For example if he wants some kind of rustic metal accents to his woodwork, a precise, perfect hole may not even be desired.  If one wants to do repousee copper panels for a furniture piece, one does not need to go anywhere near a drill press.  If one wants to work with extruded aluminum for cabinet frames with wood panels inset in them, one can do that as well without a drill.  So if you possess just a little bit of imagination, you can see that there are plenty of options for metalworking without any holes.  Holes are indeed great; Metal is what's fundamental to metalworking--everything else can be considered an option, depending on lots of factors.

Of course on a philosophical level, this particular discussion may not even be about metalworking per se.  It's probably more about a guy who likes to voice opinions in absolute terms or broad generalizations and another guy who takes delight in pointing out all the exceptions, or as the saying goes "poke holes in one's argument"...

 

[greg mann]

I would not consider any metalworking if I did not have a drill press capable of easily drilling a 1/2 inch hole in steel. Drilling holes is the most fundamental metalworking process there is.

sorry, but i find that to be a most ridiculous statement.  it's an absolutist stance that takes a very narrow view of the vast subject of metalworking.  you can do lots and lots of all kinds of metalwork without drilling any holes.  in steel and many other metals.

and you can also create all kinds of holes without a drill press.  oxy acetylene torch, plasma cutter, mag drill, hand held drill, die grinder, etc.  you can also work with perforated material that's not necessarily drilled;  those are just a few examples off the top of my head.

To each his own. "all kinds of holes" says it all. Try putting a precise hole exactly where you need it with any of your chosen tools. A decent drill press will smoke 'em all. The only one you mention that will do a decent job at that is the mag drill, which is just a portable drill press. Disagree if you wish but my opinion cannot be written off as 'ridiculous' so easily. There is nothing more fundamental in metalworking than the capability to drill holes and there is nothing more economically positioned to do that than a drill press.

Interestingly, Par Warner claims the most important accessory to his router is his drill press. Go figure.

I don't know who Par is but I speak from my own experience in the shop combining wood and metal.  There is no doubt that a drill press is indeed a great and useful tool for both woodworking and metalworking.  The point of contention is in your first sentence:  "not consider ANY Metalworking"--that covers a whole lot of ground and whether you meant to or not, should not discourage someone like the OP to forgo considering metalworking altogether if he does not have a drill press.  I'm saying that YES, you can consider quite a few examples of metalworking without the beautiful hole.  For example if he wants some kind of rustic metal accents to his woodwork, a precise, perfect hole may not even be desired.  If one wants to do repousee copper panels for a furniture piece, one does not need to go anywhere near a drill press.  If one wants to work with extruded aluminum for cabinet frames with wood panels inset in them, one can do that as well without a drill.  So if you possess just a little bit of imagination, you can see that there are plenty of options for metalworking without any holes.  Holes are indeed great; Metal is what's fundamental to metalworking--everything else can be considered an option, depending on lots of factors.

Of course on a philosophical level, this particular discussion may not even be about metalworking per se.  It's probably more about a guy who likes to voice opinions in absolute terms or broad generalizations and another guy who takes delight in pointing out all the exceptions, or as the saying goes "poke holes in one's argument"...

My staement can just as easily be interpreted as, "I would  not consider any metalworking....."  with the emphasis on 'I' rather than 'any' , which is how it was meant to be interpreted. I will concede the ambiguity but clarify: I, personally, would not consider any metalworking without a drill press. Not absolutist and not ridiculous, just my opinion.