MFK 700 Modular Router: Member Feedback

[Daviddubya]

Hi David,

I agree with your assessment but think the zero degree horizontal base for the 700 would be needed only for very special situations for most, so would take the price of that gizmo out of your analysis....

Jerry - While few of us have had an opportunity to work with the MFK700, you are fortunate to have had that opportunity.  Your insight is valuable.  I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that the zero degree horizontal base would be the preferred base to use when trimming the top edge of a 3/4" (20mm in your case) hardwood edge flush with a panel.  I also assumed the 1.5 degree base would be used for flush trimming thin or veneer edging.  Am I correct?  What are the other situations where one horizontal base is used (needed) over the other?

 

[tvgordon]

I still haven't decided if I should buy the trim router or not.  I already have 7 routers (none of them Festool routers though), so I'm not sure how much use this router would get.  Plus the fact that is sells for more than two of the plunge routers - maybe I should get the 1400 - no, maybe the 1010.  Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Tom.
 

 

[Daviddubya]

I've been edge trimming with my routers for years & never needed such a device.  I worked in a big shop in the early 90's & first saw this method I use.  We produced alot of commercial millwork, & the countertops often had wooden edges, no matter what the surface.
 When I got there they had an old & large rockwell router (pre portercable, think about the 3 1/4 hp fixed base PC router in silver, with no plastic).  It was in it's original fixed base which was fastened to a double sub base plate.  The upper most base plate was a full base plate which extended away from one side of the router about 12".  To the underside of this base plate was a second 1/2" thick plate that only extended away from the bit & doubled up theextension of the top plate.  Now to look at the underside of the router base, you'll see thescond base is triangle shaped under the router itself, & partially surrrounds the cutter. This leaves the cutter, protruding through the top most base plate, exposed about 240 degrees or so.
 A handle is added to the top of this sub base next to the fixed base, but out on the extension.  This base is total  maybe 3/4" thick.
 To use it you must first adjust a 1"diam.  end mill type cutter (or a large diam. plunge bit) in your router to just kiss a piece of paper set under the router (not the base plate).  Next place the router on your counter top & proceed to trim down the exposed edges, a papers thickness away from the surface.
 This works very well in that the cutter action in relation to the grain of the edge is optimal.  If you cut from the side with a rotating cutter you'll tear up the grain. That sucks .  With the router on top but cutting with the underside of the cutter, you'll get perfect results.  Plastic laminate on the bottom of the sub base is a good way to always move smoothly about with the router.
 I only use a card scraper to clean off the machine marks, a good end mill cutter in your router will leave few, & there is no grain tear out ever.  I saw a great cutter for this in the eagle catalog I just got recently.  They even described it as such.

Terp - I also have used the method you described for flush trimming edging material flat to the top surface of a panel.  The jig I made is a "Flush Trimming Baseplate" from the book, "Router Magic" by Bill Hylton.  I have an old Porter Cable 7310 trim router permanently mounted in the jig with a 1" straight bit with bottom cutters.  The PC7310 is especially difficult to set the cutting depth of a bit, so dedicating it to the flush trim jig works for me.  Pat Warner makes a "Vertical Trim Subbase" for several name-brand routers as an alternative to making one:
http://www.patwarner.com/vertical_trim_subbase.html

This setup works well,  but I expect the MFK700 will work as well or better.  Then again, it should for the price, eh?

 

[Dave Rudy]

Well, I got the chance to look at and check out visually, but not test drive the 700 on Monday, at a top secret, undisclosed location (No, I did not have to leave the United States). 

Mine is on order.  After what Jerry said I cannot wait to get it in my hands.  I decided after thinking through it some more, that having the 1400 and the 700 should cover the bases.  Instead of getting a smaller and lighter plunge router, the 700 makes the most sense for me.  Without the 700 in the lineup, there are many reasons for a 1400 owner to consider adding the 1010 to the group.  I may yet conclude that I should do so (in addition to the 700).  But for now I have been delighted with the 1400, and never thought it too heavy or difficult to control (I did have that reaction to the 2000 on a couple of occasions, so mainly it sat in its systainer until I sold it).  I missed the 1010 mostly for edge-treatments.  I believe that with the 700 I won't need anything else for edge treatments, but time will tell.

Anyway, Bob (who was that masked man, anyway?) has my order in hand.

One thought about prices:  it seems to me that with the dollar going through the floor, Festool has held prices and contained increases amazingly well on previously available tools.  One thing we should expect though, is that as new tools or new models come online, prices are going to go up simply to reflect the economic realities of trading with a European company in the current monetary world.  Can you blame the manufacturer?  And as some of friends from other parts of the world have noted, we still have a good deal compared with what buyers are paying in Europe, for example (I think that in Australia Anthony gives all the tools away for free, but maybe I'm just romanticizing).  It doesn't seem like a good deal because while we were sleeping, we traded some higher quality precision goods designed and manufactured well for some mostly Chinese-made lesser quality tools that seemed like a relative bargain.  Focused on the bargain, I think we lost perspective on what the declining dollar meant to future high-quality purchases.  Our purchasing power has gone through the floor, but it wasn't so apparent in stuff coming from cheap markets.  There are people to blame, but Festool management isn't among them.  ??? ???  : 

Rant over.

 

[clintholeman]

Dave-

Rant or no, I think you are spot on about the value issue.  Next time someone buys only on price, it will likely be a cheap Chinese part, or tool, or?  [most anything].  We've traded a whole lot of our core businesses in manufacturing for cheap goods.  We, as a society, IMO, would rather buy a whole bunch of less than good quality for cheap, forgetting about value.

Rant over.

 

[Fred West]

Dave and Clint, PLEASE rant away. ;D This is a huge issue for me and has been for a long time. I do not understand why anyone buys quantity instead of quality. Yes the upfront cost can be prohibitive at times but especially with tools the cost factor of buying cheaply hits in so many different ways. Aside from the obvious cost of having to often repeatedly replace that tool you also have the situation when your new cheap poorly made  tool breaks you can have the cost of fixing or replacing your workpiece due to the tool leaving burn marks, chatter, poor cuts, etc. In the case of most of the Festool tools you also have the tremendous benefit of very little excess dust which our lungs and significant others very much appreciate. Why anyone would go through all of this when you can spend a little or even a lot extra upfront and have a tool that works correctly and leaves you free to spend your extra time completing your job on a timely basis is absolutely beyond me.

Now this is assuming that the user knows what he or she is doing. So, if you are like me you may still be spending time cleaning up mistakes but at least the tool feels and looks great.  ;D Fred

 

[Dan Clark]

Buying quality for the things that you will use and depend on is almost always a good proposition.  As an example...

About 25 years ago when I wore sport coats regularly (and was single), I went into my favorite men's shop in Framingham, MA and saw a $200 sport coat on sale for 50% off!  Great buy!  Well, maybe the style wasn't quite right.  And the quality was only "decent".  And the fit wasn't perfect.  And the color was just a bit off.  But, hey...  It was a GREAT deal!  So I bought it.

For the next year, when I was going somewhere or to work, I'd try on that new sport coat, look in the mirror, and think "Hmmm...  It doesn't look quite right today."  I'd take it off and wear something else.  In that year, I wore it exactly three times!  Cost per wearing: $33.

Then, I decided "This is BS!!!  I need a decent sport coat!"  So off I went to downtown Boston.  I went into a very nice store just off the Boston Gardens that sold Hickey Freeman and Burberrys stuff.  I spotted a nice Burberrys sport coat and tried it on.   

It was AWESOME!  A lovely combination of silk, wool, and linen.  Off the rack it fit almost perfectly!  Then I looked at the price...  $400!  FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!    Whoa, that was WAY too expensive.  And then...

A very attractive woman shopper walked past and said, "Nice coat.  It fits perfectly.  Are  you picking it up now!"  (Remember, I had just grabbed it off the rack.)  My jaw dropped and I thought, "Hmmm.... Hot honey thinks I look good in this coat.  Maybe it IS worth $400."  So of course, I bought this outrageously expensive sport coat.

Over the next five years, I wore that coat at least twice a week.  I wore it so much that I had to have the lining replaced.  (Even though I've gained too much weight to wear it today, it still sits in my closet.  And STILL looks awesome.)  My average cost per wearing for that coat was less than $1.

So which coat was more expensive?  The $100 one or the $400 one?  Which tool is more expensive, the $100 cheapie that doesn't work well and breaks down or the $500 tool that keeps working, and makes you look and feel good?!?

Regards,

Dan.

p.s., maybe the hot honeys will not admire your Festool tools, but at least you will.  ;D

p.p.s, in case you think it's just a story...
[attachthumb=1]

 

[Fred West]

Dan, WHAT I have droves of women coming through my shop and swooning when they see the Festools. You don't?? ;D Fred

 

[Dan Clark]

Dan, WHAT I have droves of women coming through my shop and swooning when they see the Festools. You don't?? ;D Fred

Fred,

My wife swoons when she looks at my Festools.  Uhmm...  To be precise, it's when she sees the Festool invoice. 

Dan.

 

[Fred West]

Dan, far better to show the results of the Festool and not the invoice. ;D A lesson learned the hard way here. Fred

 

[Ned]

A very attractive woman shopper walked past and said, "Nice coat.  It fits perfectly.  Are  you picking it up now!" 

Wrong picture.  As you say, without pictures, didn't happen. 

Did you realize at the time that the "woman shopper" was a store employee? 

I had a sportcoat like that.  Got amazing amounts of interest from the fair sex.  I was afraid to have it cleaned, fearing that whatever it had would be washed out...

Ned

 

[Brice Burrell]

 Dave, you're right, the declining dollar isn't Festool fault. It is, however, their problem, how they handle this problem is going to decide their future here. Continuing to raise already high prices will likely push them out of the market (here). It doesn't matter what Festool products cost in the rest of the world, if they become unaffordable here, that is all I care about. I'm not blaming Festool (I don't think anyone really is) and I'm not complaining, the situation is what it is. Festool has an uphill battle on their hands, the conditions aren't great with the declining dollar, slowing economy and the increasing cost of production. I don't foresee a big change in the conditions coming anytime soon, so the change is going to have to come from Festool.

 I have a good handle on the value of tools, I sink or swim on tool buying decisions. The building and remodeling is slowing down and we in the trades are feeling it where it matters, in our bank accounts. So I think you can understand why we are concerned about the cost of tools. Fred, Festool's competition isn't as bad as you are making them out to be. I moved towards Festool tools because of the value, where the prices are headed the value may flip back to the less expensive tool. And if it does, I will walk away from Festool just as fast as I went to them. Not out of spite, but for my survival in the trades. Festool's future is in professionals using their tools, not the hobbyists, they know that. It is our perception of the value (of Festool products) that will determine their growth. My perception is changing.

 As I said, I'm not complaining or assigning blame, nor am I am offering solutions. Part of the reason for this forum existence is to give users a voice, I'm letting my voice be heard thats all.

 

[Fred West]

Brice, I am not fooling myself as to the competition as I have many other brand name tools and love them as well. However they do not have the system nor anywhere near the dust collection ability. As would you I too would walk away if the price became prohibitive or the quality diminished. Otherwise I still stand by my comments. Fred

 

[festeringtool]

I think we are already there..... the prices are outrageous now!!

There are a lot of good tools out there that don't cost the earth but I admit they don't have the pretty boxes and the colour scheme won't match....

Some of us buy tools to do a job - others buying the tools seems to be the hobby!

Festering

 

[Brice Burrell]

Brice, I am not fooling myself as to the competition as I have many other brand name tools and love them as well. However they do not have the system nor anywhere near the dust collection ability. As would you I too would walk away if the price became prohibitive or the quality diminished. Otherwise I still stand by my comments. Fred

  Fred, sorry, that was a poor choice of words on my part. I'll edit my earlier post. However you are talking about the worst case, most (not all) tools preformed better that you make them seem in your post. One more thing, the  competition is designing their new tools to be more like Festool's everyday. This diminishes some of Festool's uniqueness and value. And sorry again.

 

[bruegf]

That's the beauty of a hobby - you don't have to justify the cost, you just do it because you want to, but its definitely different when it's your livelihood.

Fred

 

[butzla]

 Dave, you're right, the declining dollar isn't Festool fault. It is, however, their problem, how they handle this problem is going to decide their future here. Continuing to raise already high prices will likely push them out of the market (here). It doesn't matter what Festool products cost in the rest of the world, if they become unaffordable here, ...

Brice,  I too, am counting the days until  they start knockin these things off in Taiwan!

 

[Brice Burrell]

I think we are already there..... the prices are outrageous now!!

There are a lot of good tools out there that don't cost the earth but I admit they don't have the pretty boxes and the colour scheme won't match....

Some of us buy tools to do a job - others buying the tools seems to be the hobby!

Festering

 Fester, the prices are high, but like Dan said, its the value that matters. I find my Festool products to be an asset the my work. Most of them have provided a return on my investment in a short time. And as I already made clear, it is the future I'm looking at.

Brice,  I too, am counting the days until the day they start knockin these things off in Taiwan!

Well if they provide a better value, I'll buy them.

 

[nickao]

That's the beauty of a hobby - you don't have to justify the cost, you just do it because you want to, but its definitely different when it's your livelihood.

Fred

A lot of guys I have worked with do not like working with tools at all if they are not getting paid. I am lucky that it is my livelihood AND my hobby. So it's really easy to justify the expense!

 

[clintholeman]

It isn't only FesTools that are going up in price.  Anything made overseas is going up at the same rate and domestic products are not the victim of stagflation.

It is everyone's problem - not only FesTool.  A router bit that last year cost me $40, this year is almost $50 and it has nothing to do with FesTool.

From what I've read, it is likely going to be a long time getting over, if ever.