MFT/3 with T-slot on top...

[Mettes]

Hello,

well then, I've been reading the FOG for a couple of weeks now, very interesting, have to keep telling myself to go and get some work done, rather then to sit al evening before this screen...

the new MFT/3 is getting much attention from everybody here, and there seems to be one big problem with it. The missing upper T-slot. 
I myself don't have an MFT, old or new style, but I've done some drawing in AutoCAD and came up with this...

first picture:  the way they've been sent from Germany

second picture:  a possible solution to the missing T-slot problem

The L-profile can be placed in the T-slot in the back with some nuts and bolts, and the "extra" T-slot rail glued to this with some superglue.  A couple holes in the L-profile to fix the mdf, cut your mdf-top to the right size and your all done...

Is this possible, is this workable? Don't know, but what do you guys think of this?

Cheers, Hans

 

[Qwas]

That's one way to do it.

Is it possible for the T-slot to fit in the top of the V-groove. Notice that small lip at the top of the V-groove?

I think I would try to weld a piece of angle iron onto the bottom of the T-slot. Then the T-slot could be used in the V-groove.

Welcome to the FOG and glad to see you posting.

 

[nickao]

Mettes it depends on if that top T-slot gets in the way or not. I actually think it would have been much better for Festool to incorporate something like that, the best of both worlds.

Nice first post for sure!

Nickao

 

[ColoradoCop]

Pardon my ignorance, but what advantage would the t -slot offer that cannot be accomplished using one of the other clamping features available on the MFT-3?

 

[nickao]

The 50 jigs(okay I am exaggerating) I have made that all use a T-slot to begin with. The hardware you can buy in any hardware store in the world can be used to work in the T slot. And already I see advantages of the T slot for using the MFK 700 on its side too. I can go on and on, but I  won't.

All I see as the advantage of the V slot is taking off and on the fence faster and more accurately. And using the  Festool accessories that are not even offered here.  Who really uses that crappy fence system as is to begin with?

Nickao

 

[Qwas]

With a T-slot I can slide a fence down it, fine tune to the exact cutting length, screw it down, and cut. My fence has a stop on it that I rarely move. It's easier to move the whole fence.

I have used a clamp in a hole to hold a board to act as my stop. It's fine but just seems time consuming versus the T-slot.

I was going to bring up using jigs, but Nick beat me to it. 

 

[Mettes]

That's one way to do it.

Is it possible for the T-slot to fit in the top of the V-groove. Notice that small lip at the top of the V-groove?

I think I would try to weld a piece of angle iron onto the bottom of the T-slot. Then the T-slot could be used in the V-groove.

Welcome to the FOG and glad to see you posting.

I don't have the exact dimensions of a T-slot rail, I do have a CS70 which uses the same V-rail i think, so i'll try to find a dimension of a t-slot and check.

Whit this system you have the best of both worlds, you have the V- and the T-rail. If you weld the T-rail on the V-rail, then that's it...

 

[semenza]

Hi,

    Not that it wouldn't have been better for Festool to incorperate a T track also but-  maybe  an adapter could be made for T track using a short length of track attached to the new V  "bolt" hardware.  An extra step to set up but it might be a simple way to deal with it.

Seth

 

[Qwas]

I don't have the exact dimensions of a T-slot rail, I do have a CS70 which uses the same V-rail i think, so i'll try to find a dimension of a t-slot and check.

It looks like here in the USA, the standard outside width of T-slots is 3/4 inch or 19 mm.

 

[Corwin]

Bad location for installing T-track around an MFT -- you will want it lower unless you use a backer board or like cutting aluminum.  Seth's description of an accessory mounting bracket is the better approach IMHO.

 

[Steve Jones]

I assume the point of the "V" is to enable reliable alignment.

the "T" track has a lot of slop since the bolts fitting into the slot have to have clearance to move, which would allow for example a fence running at right angles to the "T" track to be locked down out of alignment.

The "V" slot eliminates this slop since as any jig designed to fit will engage the "V" and align exactly every time.

For home made jigs (which I'm afraid I still don't get the point of) - use the "T" track on the outside edge of the side extrusion, since clamping against the face of the extrusion will still retain accurate alignment.

 

[Mettes]

Bad location for installing T-track around an MFT -- you will want it lower unless you use a backer board or like cutting aluminum.  Seth's description of an accessory mounting bracket is the better approach IMHO.

I don't know how high a t-track is but I think you'll have a couple of mm, to stay clear of the alu. Not much, but enough to keep your saw save.

The accessory bracket is a possible path, buth then you can't use both at the same time.

Cheers...

 

[Mettes]

I assume the point of the "V" is to enable reliable alignment.

the "T" track has a lot of slop since the bolts fitting into the slot have to have clearance to move, which would allow for example a fence running at right angles to the "T" track to be locked down out of alignment.

The "V" slot eliminates this slop since as any jig designed to fit will engage the "V" and align exactly every time.

For home made jigs (which I'm afraid I still don't get the point of) - use the "T" track on the outside edge of the side extrusion, since clamping against the face of the extrusion will still retain accurate alignment.

That's correct, as I've mentioned before I own a CS70 whith the V-track and I have both the "angle stop WA" and the "Ripping-cut fence CS 70 LA".
Both use the V-rail to align thereselfs, and it's perfect every time.  So I definitly see the benifits of the V-rail.

 

[Qwas]

Here is how I accomplished the same thing on my old MFT 1080 table.

I routed a 1/4 inch groove into the MDF top, about 1/2 inch in from the top. I slide a 1/4 inch thick aluminum bar into the groove. I can the run my fence on the aluminum bar. The fence has a 1/4 inch slot so there is very little slop (I haven't measured it but I would say it is less than .005 of an inch over the 2 foot length of the fence).

Here you can see the grooves with the aluminum bar installed on the top and the left side. Notice the top bar only goes to the left of the guide rail. No possible accidents cutting into it.
[attachimg=1]

Here is a picture with my main fence.

I can also remove that fence and use a smaller fence when cutting plywood. This one is just under 1/2 inch tall and works great on our under sized 1/2 inch plywood.

By using a router with the edge guide, my fence is aligned with all the table holes.

The fence pops on and off easily in seconds and the aluminum bar can be removed just as fast to get my table back to being flat if needed.

 

[Frans]

It looks like here in the USA, the standard outside width of T-slots is 3/4 inch or 19 mm.

I recently ordered some steel to make my own t-nuts for my Festool stuff. On my collection, (Basis 1A/T, Basis 5a, Basis CMB120) there were 5 different sizes of T-slots. And that's only those slots where I thought mounting a jig might be useful. If I recall correctly, they were approx. 10x6, 12x6, 14x6, 20x6 and 14x9 mm.

No standards here, I'm afraid.

 

[Corwin]

I don't know how high a t-track is but I think you'll have a couple of mm, to stay clear of the alu. Not much, but enough to keep your saw save.

Every stick of miter track and T track in my shop is 1/2" in height.  Well, actually only one brand is a full .500", most are .001" or .002" shy of 1/2".  I may be incorrect to assume that the new MFT3's top sits below the top surface of the side profiles, as the old MFTs do, but you would only have 1/4" if mounted at the same level as the top of the profiles -- less if recessed.  You'll probably join me in using backer board below your material.

 

[nickao]

I assume the point of the "V" is to enable reliable alignment.

the "T" track has a lot of slop since the bolts fitting into the slot have to have clearance to move, which would allow for example a fence running at right angles to the "T" track to be locked down out of alignment.

The "V" slot eliminates this slop since as any jig designed to fit will engage the "V" and align exactly every time.

For home made jigs (which I'm afraid I still don't get the point of) - use the "T" track on the outside edge of the side extrusion, since clamping against the face of the extrusion will still retain accurate alignment.

I have the incra table saw set up and it uses T slots. It is the most accurate fence system I have used, even beyond what I need. Spring action in the attachment that goes in the T slot eliminate the slop and can be employed in any T slot system if needed.

I think the V slot is more for realignment and speed of taking the fence off then precision. Simple stops on either end of the T slots assures the same alignment every time. As long as you do not tweak the table. One reason for a complaint that the mft's need bracing.

Home made jigs are what woodworking is all about, I do not get that statement at all.

Nickao

 

[semenza]

Bad location for installing T-track around an MFT -- you will want it lower unless you use a backer board or like cutting aluminum.  Seth's description of an accessory mounting bracket is the better approach IMHO.

I don't know how high a t-track is but I think you'll have a couple of mm, to stay clear of the alu. Not much, but enough to keep your saw save.

The accessory bracket is a possible path, buth then you can't use both at the same time.

Cheers...

Hi,

        I am talking about a T track adapter about 2 - 4" long.  So wether or not both can be used at the same time  depends on were along the edge it needs to be positioned.

Seth

 

[semenza]

Here is how I accomplished the same thing on my old MFT 1080 table.

I routed a 1/4 inch groove into the MDF top, about 1/2 inch in from the top. I slide a 1/4 inch thick aluminum bar into the groove. I can the run my fence on the aluminum bar. The fence has a 1/4 inch slot so there is very little slop (I haven't measured it but I would say it is less than .005 of an inch over the 2 foot length of the fence).

Here you can see the grooves with the aluminum bar installed on the top and the left side. Notice the top bar only goes to the left of the guide rail. No possible accidents cutting into it.
[attachimg=1]

Here is a picture with my main fence.

I can also remove that fence and use a smaller fence when cutting plywood. This one is just under 1/2 inch tall and works great on our under sized 1/2 inch plywood.

By using a router with the edge guide, my fence is aligned with all the table holes.

The fence pops on and off easily in seconds and the aluminum bar can be removed just as fast to get my table back to being flat if needed.

Hi,

  So the bars in the grooves hold the fences?  Also is that an MFS on edge?

Seth

 

[Qwas]

Yes, the fence has a slot on the bottom just like the top.

It looks like the MFS but no. It is from 8020 Inc. and is their model 25-2550 meaning it is 25 mm wide and 50 mm tall. The T-slots are 6.5 mm which fits the 1/4 inch aluminum bar nicely.  The bars stand 1/4 inch above the top which fits in the fence T-slot at full depth and still lets the fence rest on table.