MFT and Guide Rail Alignment

[jonny round boy]

The fixed part of the clamping elements are great bench dogs for the MFT, it's worth having a couple of sets 'cause you get four clamps out of the deal too. (of course at $84.00 a pair they're a bit steep)

Steve/Qwas,

According to the Ekat system (the online spares website), the fixed part of the clamp MFT-SP is available as a spare part - Part number 488546. Price is shown as 9.24GBP per pair*. They could well be useful on their own for this type of situation...

*As an aside, accessing the Ekat system via FestoolUSA shows the same thing, but at 11.60USD per pair. 11.60USD = 5.72GBP at current rates (not 9.24GBP). Yet again, you get it FAR cheaper than we do!!!

 

[Qwas]

If I can get others to try this way of cutting and prove it works on other tables, I'm thinking of making something out of aluminum round stock to fit the table holes and will slide onto the aux fence rail.

Then we can remove aux fence rail from the head slide on the aluminum pieces, pop it into some vertical holes and align the guide rail, pop it into horizontal holes to make crosscuts, or diagonal row of holes to make a miter cut.

 

[mhch]

I have to finish a slow paint job before I can quickly experiment with MDF arms.
My shop is small and invaded by the painting activity ... Will post pictures ASAP.

 

[greg mann]

It would not take much to make specialized fences with 20mm holes placed in exact locations to create exact angles. The greatest limitation to the mitering capabilities of the present fence is the small distance between the pivot point and the lock-pin. Add in a little play in the miter head and..... This is why it is so important to use the outboard clamp in the rail. I have a stop in the rail so that the outboard clamp is always positioned the same and right angles are never a problem, but having said that, I really like where this thread is going. By drilling holes in exact distances from the edge of a fence-board, with one at say 1 inch and the other at 1 inch plus the distance needed to establish a specific angle, you can create an indexed fence. In fact, multiples holes can be done in a single fence with the angles marked for each possible setting. As long as the holes are at a proper distance to mate up with the MFT you are good to go. If you use 200 or 300mm spacings you improve the opportunity for accuracy significantly over 100mm and, since we are talking about fences, they are probably going to be at least 300mm long or more.

 

[greg mann]

If I can get others to try this way of cutting and prove it works on other tables, I'm thinking of making something out of aluminum round stock to fit the table holes and will slide onto the aux fence rail.

Then we can remove aux fence rail from the head slide on the aluminum pieces, pop it into some vertical holes and align the guide rail, pop it into horizontal holes to make crosscuts, or diagonal row of holes to make a miter cut.

Qwas,

The only problem with daigonal hole spacing is that it will be different than horizontal or vertical. I think an answer may be in building the angle into the fence. See previous post.

 

[poto]

Steve/Qwas,

According to the Ekat system (the online spares website), the fixed part of the clamp MFT-SP is available as a spare part - Part number 488546. Price is shown as 9.24GBP per pair*. They could well be useful on their own for this type of situation...

*As an aside, accessing the Ekat system via FestoolUSA shows the same thing, but at 11.60USD per pair. 11.60USD = 5.72GBP at current rates (not 9.24GBP). Yet again, you get it FAR cheaper than we do!!!

Johnny - how do you access the Ekat system? I was just on the FestoolUSA site, and couldn't find the part number you quote. I was wondering about milling off the top of two stationary clamping elements and fixing them to the underside of a rigid fence. That way there would be no play in the fence for aligning the guide rail, etc.

Poto

 

[Qwas]

Johnny - how do you access the Ekat system? I was just on the FestoolUSA site, and couldn't find the part number you quote. I was wondering about milling off the top of two stationary clamping elements and fixing them to the underside of a rigid fence. That way there would be no play in the fence for aligning the guide rail, etc.

Poto

Yes, something like that is exactly what I mean. I just tried the clamping element and it seems to work the best. The face on one mine has some damage on it, but the rest were fine. It would be best to take off the rubber face.

By the way, I tried some 20 mm bolts. I had more problems with them tipping than the 3/4 inch bench dogs.

 

[Qwas]

The only problem with daigonal hole spacing is that it will be different than horizontal or vertical. I think an answer may be in building the angle into the fence. See previous post.

For now, I'm just thinking of something very simple and easy. Something a production shop could send a dummy out to cut and know he couldn't screw it up!

Since most of our cuts are crosscuts, 45 degree, and rip cuts I would like to focus on them. We have always have the auxiliary fence to take care of the rest.

 

[mhch]

  I found the following hardware very appropriate to build arms/fences as discussed

  - elongated hexagonal M10 nuts (30mm long, 19.7mm diameter between opposite angles). unit cost 1.3 euros.

-  star knobs D60mm with a threaded M10x30 rod. They are almost identical to those used to secure
    the MFT fence and clamps from underneath. Unit cost 2.30 euros.

-  22mm  M10 washer, unit cost is 1.10 euros.

These prices are for buying one piece and are lower for larger orders.
So total cost is at most 4.7 euros per nut + bolt + washer set, which is lower than
the cost of the  earlier mentionned Festool spare part (6 euros = 9.24 GBP / 2).

The dealer trades in France, Switzerland and Germany (www pages in
French, German, Polish. No English, sorry ...) and probably ships across
Europe. Let me know if part number and dealer URL is of interest to you.

 

[Qwas]

Johnny - how do you access the Ekat system? I was just on the FestoolUSA site, and couldn't find the part number you quote. I was wondering about milling off the top of two stationary clamping elements and fixing them to the underside of a rigid fence. That way there would be no play in the fence for aligning the guide rail, etc.

Poto

Here is a link to the Ekat / Festool link.

I couldn't find the clamping elements on it, maybe Johnny's link would be better. I do have the parts breakdown diagram of the clamping element. His part number is correct for the end stop (with the rubber face on it) without the the attachment bolt.

 

[Ned]

I was wondering about milling off the top of two stationary clamping elements and fixing them to the underside of a rigid fence. That way there would be no play in the fence for aligning the guide rail, etc.

That would be an extraordinarily expensive way to do it, I think.

My example is from the USA, but would probably hold anywhere.

The clamping elements cost 84 USD.  The utility of the set would be reduced without the stationary elements you're going to convert.

A 1m round bar of 20mm aluminum costs about 44 USD ( www.mcmaster.com ).  Other sources, and using steel instead of aluminum, could be cheaper.

You could cut pieces off the bar and tap them yourself (hand filing and a drill press), or you could have a machine shop do it.  Anyone with even the smallest metal lathe should be able to do this job, quite possibly using scrap material.

If I still had a lathe, I'd be happy to make 4 of them for 50 USD.  A commercial establishment would probably need to charge more.

Ned

 

[jonny round boy]

Go tohttp://www.festoolusa.com

Hover over the 'Service' tab, then go down & click on 'parts catalog with diagrams'

Then click on 'browse our online parts catalog with diagrams' and that open the EKAT USA site, which is this page.

To find the clamps, click on 'Multifunction table' on the left hand side, and then click on MFT-SP. Finally, click on the part number, 488030. That then brings up the drawing & partslist.

 

[johnbro]

Maybe I'm missing something, but here's what I don't get:

The guide rail assy is squared to the table frame with the installed stops. The table top (MDF) is square to itself, ie the holes are aligned to themselves and to the sides of the MDF insert.

How can you be sure that the MDF and the table frame are square to each other. Unless you can guarantee that, you can't use the guiderail in the "traditional" way, that is to say, drop it down into its cradle and I know it's square to the table frame.

 

[Qwas]

You didn't miss anything.  What I'm suggesting is forget squaring the rail to the table. Square the rail to the MDF.

And now the rows of holes are aligned parallel and perpendicular to the rail.

Now the holes can be used to align the rail, and hold "fences" or something to get straight cuts, or 45 degree cuts.

 

[poto]

That would be an extraordinarily expensive way to do it, I think.

My example is from the USA, but would probably hold anywhere.

The clamping elements cost 84 USD.  The utility of the set would be reduced without the stationary elements you're going to convert.

A 1m round bar of 20mm aluminum costs about 44 USD ( www.mcmaster.com ).  Other sources, and using steel instead of aluminum, could be cheaper.

You could cut pieces off the bar and tap them yourself (hand filing and a drill press), or you could have a machine shop do it.  Anyone with even the smallest metal lathe should be able to do this job, quite possibly using scrap material.

If I still had a lathe, I'd be happy to make 4 of them for 50 USD.  A commercial establishment would probably need to charge more.

Ned

Hi Ned,

I agree with you ... unless the stationary parts of the clamping elements are $11.60 a pair, as johnny round boy suggested in an earlier post. I still can't find them on the Ekat site...

Poto

 

[Corwin]

Well, this 'now documented' (way to go!)  feature is slicker than swiss cheese.  I really did not think the holes were that accurate, especially since some of the holes in my tables seem to swell.  But, I just check this out against my 12" precision triangle and those 45's are dead on.  Wow!  Have to rethink several things now -- it sure will simplify many of the jigs.

What I noticed about the clamping unit holders is that one need not modify them in any way -- rather than remove the rubber if you feel this is needed, just use the other (curved) face.  They are easily aligned by placing a straight edge along the back side -- the straight face of the holder.  I feel the Festool designers probably intended this useage for these holders, as they sure look to be a great setup -- Festool had better get in a good supply.

 

[Qwas]

What I noticed about the clamping unit holders is that one need not modify them in any way -- rather than remove the rubber if you feel this is needed, just use the other (curved) face.  They are easily aligned by placing a straight edge along the back side -- the straight face of the holder.  I feel the Festool designers probably intended this useage for these holders, as they sure look to be a great setup -- Festool had better get in a good supply.

Late one night I did think of using these clamps but forgot about it when I woke up. But I never thought of using the back face. Thats why I love to share ideas on here!

 

[Qwas]

Here are some pictures of a fence I'm thinking of.

The insert for the table hole is the dog from the Jet Parallel Clamps. These are for 3/4 inch holes so they are not perfect.

I use some nuts so they can slide onto the fence. Finger tightened so they can be easily moved.
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Here is the fence attached for crosscutting.
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And here it is for 45 degree miter.
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[Corwin]

Well, this hole thing has kept me in the shop a little late tonight.  I'll check some more another time, but thus far the only thing I have found that is not accurate is when I align across my two conjoined 1080s.  The holes in my older MFT vary slightly in size such that the holders fit anywhere from snug to all but too tight, while the holes in the newer table are all a little too loose.  So, what I've checked so far looks to be very accurate on either of my tables individually, just a little potential for error on these two when joined.  All in all, I am impressed with just how accurate this lays out.

 

[Qwas]

Thanks for the input, Corwin. Much appreciated!

I'm sure it works on most (90%?) tables, but it's good to get input proving it.