MFT and Guide Rail Alignment

[Qwas]

I want to look into those stops tomorrow. It wasn't the cause of  the unexpected angle, that is what trigonometry says to expect.

 

[Qwas]

Hey Steve - you'd better be careful using the curved side of the stationary clamping element for your square: since the radius of curvature is not centered at the center of the hole, any rotation of the clamping element in the hole will throw off your square. The sides won't line up parallel to the hole centers. You'd be better off with something cylindrical in the holes, as mhch did with the PVC.

Love the parallelogram!

I looked into that issue today and you are correct. I guess it's back to using the front face of the clamp.

 

[nickao]

Hey Qwas I was wondering if there something wrong with the Black and Decker dogs I have been using. They fit nice and tight and do not lift up?

Take a look if you can:

B & D  79-010-4

nickao

 

[Qwas]

Hey Qwas I was wondering if there something wrong with the Black and Decker dogs I have been using. They fit nice and tight and do not lift up?

Take a look if you can:

B & D  79-010-4

nickao

Those look great and exactly what I would use. I don't like the idea that they lock in place, time consuming to remove. But if I had them, I would grind that off. Have they working good for you?

 

[nickao]

Well they do not actually lock because the little tabs do not click under the MDF, it's too thick. I just spin them to get them out. I only have 4 and did not want to buy more if there was something wrong with them.

It seems some holes are a smidgen larger and some smaller. On the smaller holes they are a really tight fit and hard spinning is required to remove them. On other holes they just pull straight out. The more I use them the better they are. I do not know if the holes are getting slightly larger or if the plastic on the dogs are just giving with use.

It would be nice if they were .40 cents or so. They were on sale for 3.50 for four, now they are back over 7.00, oh well. I will get some more.

nickao

 

[nickao]

Actually I made a mistake. The little tabs sit way below the table. I guess they are not wide enough to click in place though, which is a good thing I think.

Nick

 

[Qwas]

It's good to know they work. It could help others looking for bench dogs.  I will have to add them to the manual I'm working on.

I agree that the prices on this stuff is a killer. It's only a couple small pieces of plastic. But think of the time/money it will save us.

I like that saying with your signature!

 

[nickao]

Thanks I read it once and it seemed so true. I hate when guys would be standing over me saying that isn't going to work. Especially when I knew it would work and they were just being lazy or to dense to understand what I was doing.

nickao

 

[nickao]

Okay I snapped the little tabs completely off of the B & D dogs and they work even better. I would say as close to perfect as you can get. I just cracked them off then cleaned it up with the disc sander , not to tight not to loose anymore.

Nickao

 

[Qwas]

I found these little jewels today sitting in my Jig Parts Box. They are 1/4-20 T-nuts but the long legs are rounded and fit the holes perfect and snug.
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I'm going to use them on my fence I made for the holes. I slip a regular nut on the bolt first to act as a spacer and allow the T-nut to rest lower in the hole. I tighten them until the long legs are perpendicular to the slot for the best hole alignment while pushing workpieces against the fence.

I put a regular T-nut (black) on the fence behind this one to let you see the legs are shorter than normal.
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Sorry for the poor picture quality. I think I got too close while taking the pictures but I think you can see them good enough.

You never know where you will find something useful!!!

 

[nickao]

Looks cool!

 

[Qwas]

I would like to point something out about the parallelogram that you may not have thought about.

The parallelogram can be used to guide the workpiece under the guide rail or it could be used to "guide" the guide rail while the workpiece is under the guide rail and held by some bench dogs.

Let's say you needed to rip some stock to 3/4 inch wide. You could put bench dogs in a vertical row of hole on the right side (waste side) of the guide rail. Completely loosen the guide rail and put some bench dogs to the left of the guide rail to support the parallelogram. Use the moving arm of the parallelogram to move the guide rail to the cutting line on the workpiece. Secure the guide rail, remove the bench dogs holding the workpiece (so you don't "trap" the board when cutting) and cut.

Once the guide rail is set up to the correct position, the parallelogram can be removed entirely. This allows longer boards to placed under the guide rail.

Example (this is actually a cross cut but same principle) - I have a 6 foot long board, 8 inches wide. I need to cut off strips 1 1/2 inches by 8 inches. I put bench dogs in holes on the waste side to act as a stop for the workpiece. I used the parallelogram to move the guide rail until I have 1.5 inches + blade kerf between the bench dogs and the rubber strip on the guide rail. I secure the rail. I put some more bench dogs into horizontal row of holes to the left of the guide rail to support the work piece. Slide workpiece in place against all bench dogs and bring the guide rail down. Remove the bench dogs on the right and cut. Remove cut piece, put bench dogs back in, move workpiece against all dogs, remove the bench dogs on the right and cut. Repeat as necessary.

 

[Qwas]

Here are some pictures from Omer in France on his method of implementing bench dogs and a fence.

His pictures were posted here at www.cyberbricoleur.com

Nicely done!

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[Dave Ronyak]

I would like to point something out about the parallelogram that you may not have thought about.

The parallelogram can be used to guide the workpiece under the guide rail or it could be used to "guide" the guide rail while the workpiece is under the guide rail and held by some bench dogs.  ....

Example (this is actually a cross cut but same principle) - I have a 6 foot long board, 8 inches wide. I need to cut off strips 1 1/2 inches by 8 inches. I put bench dogs in holes on the waste side to act as a stop for the workpiece. I used the parallelogram to move the guide rail until I have 1.5 inches + blade kerf between the bench dogs and the rubber strip on the guide rail. I secure the rail. I put some more bench dogs into horizontal row of holes to the left of the guide rail to support the work piece. Slide workpiece in place against all bench dogs and bring the guide rail down. Remove the bench dogs on the right and cut. Remove cut piece, put bench dogs back in, move workpiece against all dogs, remove the bench dogs on the right and cut. Repeat as necessary.

Qwas,

I must be missing something.  Why not simply use Festool's Longitudinal Stop Item #488564 for such repeat cutoffs together with the standard harware for mounting the guide rail to the MFT and the standard fence for assuring that the board being fed to make the repeat cutoffs is properly aligned relative to the guide rail?

If I want to make a series of rip cuts, especially if of a length greater than an MFT, I prefer to use a freely movable (portable) guide rail equipped with a pair of side stops that are adjusted to create the desired width of the ripped stock.  For narrow widths, if you have the hole drilling set Item #583290, you can use the side stops that come with it.  If you need to rip stock of greater width than the side stop rods enable, substitute longer rods.  Ideally, use hexagonal bar stock that is 5/8" dimension point-to-point across the hexagonal cross section.  I simply substitute a pair of hardwood dowels.  Very precise.  Very repeatable.  If you have an  MFS, you can make up a pair of precision calibrated side stops as taught in Jerry Work's MFS manual, but at a much higher price than the dowel or hex rod approach.

Dave R.

 

[Ned]

Why not simply use Festool's Longitudinal Stop Item #488564 for such repeat cutoffs together...

Just in case any readers of this thread haven't memorized all the part numbers (Newbies!) :

This is what Dave's talking about.

Ned

 

[Qwas]

It can be done that way. I'm one of those that always has problems getting the fence perfectly square to the rail. But with this system it is so simple, fast, and has great accuracy.

I don't own the longitudinal stop so I can't comment about it.

I did a parallel cut on a 2 foot wide piece of plywood this weekend. In under 1 minute of setup time, my cut was well within 1/32 of inch of parallel over the 2 feet.

 

[nickao]

Hey guys I think Qwas is just refining, experimenting and trying new things with this parallel set up. Anything can always be done another way, maybe even simpler or faster.

I bet I can cut just as accurately, probably more so and really quick with my table saw and Incra setup. I can set up for the cut in about 20 seconds. But by Qwas stretching the limit with his imagination new ideas may pop up for using the mft.

So keep the ideas coming Qwas.

Nickao

 

[Qwas]

I appreciate Dave's question, and it was a good question.

But you are right Nickao. Now that I have seen the purpose for holes, I'm trying to stay dedicated to it and see if I can learn or see more.

I still feel like there is something simple still missing, maybe dealing with the sides of the MDF top.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I have no intention or desire to stifle Qwas' creative ideas or those of anyone else.  Like many members on FOG, I am constantly trying to improve my own understanding of Festool's products and to improve my own woodworking skills, which I would rate as moderate (involving a lot of trial fitting if I want something to be very precisely done).

Qwas, please do keep the ideas coming.  Building on one another's ideas is how we all advance.

Dave R.

 

[nickao]

Guys like you are why this forum so good.

Nick