MFT dogs with FS cutting guides

[JeromeM]

Is it possible to make room for adding 1/4 inch holes(or what ever would be standard) to the four corners to attach our own jigs?

What kind of jig are you thinking of? I'm interested in new jigs but apart from a 90 degree (or other fixed angle) I don't know what you would attach.

In the current design there is room for people to drill at least 3 holes between the rail and pin cutout and with a thickness of 9.525mm or 3/8" you can easily tap a thread in the clip if you want. would that not be enough?

 

[mishle]

parallel guides mostly.  ;D I don't know how I would go about it but I would figure something out. Having a connector that connects square is half the battle from what I've seen in other post around here.

 

[JeromeM]

parallel guides mostly.  ;D I don't know how I would go about it but I would figure something out. Having a connector that connects square is half the battle from what I've seen in other post around here.

For PG you need a wide attachment to the rails or the ends will move too much so you would need 2 for each guide

 

[rmwarren]

I was working in the shop yesterday and hit a snag, I am getting much more slop than I originally noticed. The dogs are wobbling more than I previously realized and it is imparting an error to the cuts. I notice it most on narrow stock, when I normally place the dogs closer to each other.

None of this takes into account the variation in MFT holes out there, I think I have a real problem here.

You could also put a thread in the bottom of the dog and have a bolt and washer which could be inserted easily from underneath to really lock the dog into position[/i]."

Andy, I think you were right all along, I was misguided to think that the dog would work reliably with just an interference fit. I added a 8MM tapped hole, which can be used with the knobs from the Festool Clamping Elements kit or a machine screw & washer. Problem solved.

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I am going to place the initial order today and get this moving. I just want to check the overall height (6mm shoulder + 50mm pin) one more time before I pull the trigger.

Thanks for your input and the same to everyone else who has participated in the discussion.

RMW

 

[andy5405]

Ron,

I hope I'm right on that score as I really like your idea and I still think it's a winner. There is one thing I definitely got wrong though and that is referring to Qwas Dogs as square wheels. I had a play yesterday afternoon with my German ones and was astounded at the level of accuracy I could achieve so easily. They are a real pain as you try and lift the rail up and down for different thicknesses of material but that is a small price to pay for what you can achieve. I set up a ridiculous test that would highlight cumulative errors and was amazed at the results. So I have to humbly apologise to Mr Qwas and can say rail dogs rock!!!

 

[Alan m]

i have to agree qwas dogs rock. im not not gone on the rail dog idea. its a pain to use regulary.

this idea should improve on that system 100 fold and make it easy to drop the rail on and off

 

[rmwarren]

Houston, we have lift-off... [thumbs up]

I placed the order tonight for a total of 30 sets and a couple extra low-profile dogs as someone requested them. Production time is 20 business days.

The final design includes:

• Rail clips are now 9.525mm thick (3/8") and made of Acetal (Delrin) a very hard, durable plastic. Acetal is not only tough but a bit slippery, I chose it to eliminate any chance of wear developing under heavy use or getting bent if they are banged around.
  
• The "Guide" dogs are aluminum, 19.9mm diameter with a 6mm high head that is 24mm diameter. The pin is integral, the entire thing is machined of 6061 aluminum. I added an 8mm tapped hole on the bottom so they can be attached firmly to the MFT, eliminating any possibility of wobble. The pin extends 50mm above the top of the head (56mm total projection above the MFT surface).
  
• The "Alignment" dogs are the same as above, sans the pin protrusion, and the 8mm tapped hole is bored clear through. I decided on this because there have been times that I wanted to mount something to the MFT with precision and repeatable, I expect that I will use a screw and washer to attach the dog from the bottom and another screw to attach whatever else from above.
  

My final cost went up a bit due to the changes, it is not final but I expect to be able to sell these for about $100/set including 2 of each of the above along with the necessary hardware. I will firm this up once I receive everything and am sure of my costs, I hope that it may come down a bit.

Much appreciation to everyone who weighed in with suggestions and/or encouragement, I think I received 25 or 30 PM's from all over the world. That in itself is one of the coolest things that has come out of this so far, thank you all.

Here are the final renderings:

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Lastly a special thanks to JeromeM and Andy5405, you guys basically egged me along and got me to take the plunge. Now, hopefully, someone will actually buy these... if I don't at least break even I have some splainin' to do here at home.  [eek]

Oh yea, Happy New Year!

RMW

 

[hawhite330]

Just found this thread today. I have been thinking about getting Qwas dogs, but I like what you have come up with. I would be interested in getting a set of devices when available.

 

[rmwarren]

Just and update: I received notification that 2 of the 3 components were finished and shipped, the other 1 should be a couple more days. I will inspect and post photos or a video once I have everything in hand.

I have a list of everyone who PM'ed me expressing interest in a set, I will reach out as soon as I have everything in had and ready to go.

Thanks,

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

Received the first part, the guide clips, and they came out great. I did not really know what to expect so I am pleased and a bit relieved.

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The small dogs shipped Friday, the dogs with the alignment pin hopefully will be done next week. Assuming that everyone who expressed interest in a set takes them I think I am totally sold out.  [big grin]

On a totally different topic, I got to spend 1/2 a day in the shop today and finally made myself a set of parallel guides using the Incra track. I have the Festool guides but find them a bit awkward to use, the ones I made are based on several other threads on the FOG and I think they may be better for how I work.

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They are made of Acetal and seem pretty sturdy, time will tell how they hold up in the shop.

RMW

 

[rookie08]

Looking good!  [thumbs up]

 

[Iwood75]

I like the name "Hot Dogs."

Please let me know the exact price and ordering procedure, etc.

Also, how much would you want to build me a set of your "incra" parallel guides? Bet this could be your second product success. Congrats!

Thanks.  Joel

 

[rmwarren]

Also, how much would you want to build me a set of your "incra" parallel guides? Bet this could be your second product success. Congrats!

Thanks.  Joel

Joel, I will figure out how I am going to manage the orders and let you know, The easiest way will be thru PayPal but I am not very familiar with using it to sell stuff, I have mostly been on the buying end.  [big grin]

Regarding the Incra gadgets, if I had to make them myself they would end up costing a mint, I am not a very practiced or proficient machinist. If there is enough interest I can do the same deal as the dogs, i.e. have a quantity made by the CNC shop. I want a few sets myself so I can have them set up for < 18", 18" to maybe 30" and 30" plus.

Thanks,

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

Small (material alignment) dogs arrived and everything looks good. They fit my MFT perfectly, no noticeable slop. As previously noted they are bored clear thru and tapped with M8-1.25 thread so they can be either locked in from the bottom or used to attach a fixture of some sort from above.

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No ship date on the last piece yet, i.e. the "guide" dogs. I am hoping they will get to me this week.

RMW

 

[gompy58]

Received the first part, the guide clips, and they came out great. I did not really know what to expect so I am pleased and a bit relieved.

[attachthumb=#]

The small dogs shipped Friday, the dogs with the alignment pin hopefully will be done next week. Assuming that everyone who expressed interest in a set takes them I think I am totally sold out.  [big grin]

On a totally different topic, I got to spend 1/2 a day in the shop today and finally made myself a set of parallel guides using the Incra track. I have the Festool guides but find them a bit awkward to use, the ones I made are based on several other threads on the FOG and I think they may be better for how I work.

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[attachthumb=#]

They are made of Acetal and seem pretty sturdy, time will tell how they hold up in the shop.

RMW

mine mine mine, gimme that set  [tongue]

How much would that set be with the incra stuff included? in Metric  [tongue]

 

[rmwarren]

Just an update on the dogs, the last piece (dog w/ pin) needed to be re-made, I am supposed to have them early next week. Sorry this is taking longer than expected.

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

Bad Dogs!  [mad] [mad] [mad]

So the "pin" dogs arrived today and I was pretty excited until I inspected them. The machining was nowhere near the quality of the first dogs, there were issues with the surface roughness, tolerances and lacking the beveled edges I had designed in. In one dimension they were under by 0.004", beyond the 0.005" that was specified, for a total of - 0.009". There is even a little nib remaining on the turned end of the pin, indicating that the lathe cutter was not properly centered.

I am convinced that the shop I had do the work subbed it out, which also explains some of the delays. The original dogs and the little guide clips were perfect.

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So anyway, this is just not acceptable, I am having them re-made. It will probably be another month before the new dogs are howling at my door. Sorry for the continuing delays.

RMW

 

[williaty]

I feel your pain, man. I've designed aftermarket automotive parts. Everything on the protos looks awesome, you pull the trigger on the production run, and what shows up is crap because the shop you were working with did the protos in-house but subbed out the main work. We had an entire run of parts that were delayed months, we had backorders, and when they showed up, they were worthless because they hadn't cleaned the parts after welding before they went to powder coat.

 

[Alan m]

how about asking for one of our fellow fog gaget guys to help. you know ron wen, john with the numbers after his name, rick cristopherson, qwas etc.

 

[rmwarren]

Alan,

It was just a production issue, if they had done the same quality work as the first batch it would not be an issue. They do have a reputation for standing behind their work and good customer service, I am hoping they just got behind for a short time and the next batch to be good.

Thanks,

RMW

how about asking for one of our fellow fog gaget guys to help. you know ron wen, john with the numbers after his name, rick cristopherson, qwas etc.