MFT dogs with FS cutting guides

[John2532]

RMW, there are alot of trig calculators online that will give the info you need.  I played with something similar a quite awhile ago and it worked, but for my use, I didn't feel it was much of an advantage over the MFT/3 protractor/fence.  If you were consistently cutting the same angles and wanted a fast set up you might find it more useful.

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The plate is mounted on a 20mm stub and different angles can be achieved with a simlpe rotation.  The fence could have been improved but the project was just shelved instead.

 

[RONWEN]

I need input from one of the mathematically oriented FOG members, I think I stumbled onto the mother of all sine bars. I think, based on my untested understanding of how a sine bar works, you can use 2 dogs to align the MFT fence to any angle just by calculating the sine angle (I am probably mis-stating this) and cutting the proper length of sine block?

These dogs are 24mm diameter and (in this example) 288mm on center (96mm X 3).

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Am I correct that offsetting one end of the fence from the dog by the calculated amount will give an accurate angle, or am I missing something?

Where this is relevant is that I am trying to come up with a simple method to use the dogs with the fence at any angle and this would be a simple solution that anyone could implement without a bunch more hardware. These photos show a simple block in use at one end of the fence that holds it tight to the MFT and dog.

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I tested this cutting a 45 degree angle and it came out perfect but I want to be able to set any angle.

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Little help anybody...  ??? ???

RMW

You are 100% correct.  In your example you've created a sine bar -- as long as the ply(?) changes length precisely, the angle change will also be precise.  You carefully could make a set of "gage blocks" for the common angles that you use.
The only caveat is that you use known lengths for the other two sides of the triangle.  http://www.longwood.edu/assets/chemphys/appc.pdf

How to Set Up and Use a Sine Bar

 

[rmwarren]

Thanks John and Ron, this nails down for me how to set up for easy angled cuts.

Still have 5 sets of dogs remaining, PM me if you are interested. So far they have gone to Thailand, France, Ireland, Canada and all over the US, all to FOG members. Hoping to get some feedback soon.

RMW

 

[mhch]

Just received my set this morning in France ... Shipment took 8 business days, USPS announcing 6 to 10.

The dogs perfectly fit the holes of my MFT2/1200, but not those of my MFT2/800 extension which are a tiny bit smaller. No surprise since I already experienced the same problem with my 20mm PVC pipe dogs. This is not really a problem as I only use dogs on the larger table.

What I really like

1) getting rid of the Festool guide rail supports, which I hate removing/reinstalling/checking when I need to lay a large piece on the table.

2) The design of these dogs make them very stable on the MFT, and there is no way they can fall across the holes, unlike my 20mm PVC pipe dogs

Thanks Richard.

 

[rmwarren]

Michel,

Glad to hear they made it quickly and fit where you needed them to; minor differences in MFT hole sizes is the Achilles Heel of using dogs.

I would appreciate you posting further feedback after you get to use them for a while.

Thanks,

RMW

Just received my set this morning in France ... Shipment took 8 business days, USPS announcing 6 to 10.

The dogs perfectly fit the holes of my MFT2/1200, but not those of my MFT2/800 extension which are a tiny bit smaller. No surprise since I already experienced the same problem with my 20mm PVC pipe dogs. This is not really a problem as I only use dogs on the larger table.

What I really like

1) getting rid of the Festool guide rail supports, which I hate removing/reinstalling/checking when I need to lay a large piece on the table.

2) The design of these dogs make them very stable on the MFT, and there is no way they can fall across the holes, unlike my 20mm PVC pipe dogs

Thanks Richard.

 

[kpeluso]

PM sent for a set.

 

[kfitzsimons]

I received my set a few days ago and they do fit my mft 1200. Very tight, but I'd rather have that than loose. I don't have any projects coming up for awhile to use them, but I'm with Michel, it'll be nice not to have to use the guide rail fittings. Much easier to use these.
Thanks for coming up with these and making them, Richard. Beautifully done!
    Kevin

 

[rmwarren]

Glad they fit, it looks like the diameter is hitting the sweet spot, i.e. not too tight, not too loose.  [big grin]

I spent the weekend in my small work-shed using them on my MFT in every possible orientation, one of the best aspects to the system is I can change cutting direction on the MFT in a matter of seconds. The open work area inside the shed is less than 8' by 8' and it gets a bit cramped when working on long materials, which is where the flexibility some in handy.

To illustrate - these photos show my nearly completed staircase with the flush mounted in-swing door to the pantry.

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All the maple was trimmed to length using the dogs after being cut, routed, sanded on the MFT. Not having the rail permanently mounted to the table made it much easier to move from one operation to the next.

In case anyone is wondering, the large drawer contains the cat litter box, there is a small cat door to be installed in the opening to the right of it and some trim and then I can check this project off my list and move on to the bedroom soffit.  [thumbs up] [thumbs up] [thumbs up]

I received my set a few days ago and they do fit my mft 1200. Very tight, but I'd rather have that than loose. I don't have any projects coming up for awhile to use them, but I'm with Michel, it'll be nice not to have to use the guide rail fittings. Much easier to use these.
Thanks for coming up with these and making them, Richard. Beautifully done!
    Kevin

 

[rmwarren]

SOLD OUT!!!

Many thanks to everyone who participated in this project, I am hoping to get some feedback (good or bad) and if it is generally positive I can make another batch. Those who bought them please chime in with any comments or suggestions.

My inclination, if I do this again, is to make one standard dog and have the pin as an add-on that threads in. I would also add one more item, the MFT fence clamp shown here:

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The clamp attaches the stock MFT fence to the forward pin-dog, and one more dog is used to line it up at either 90 or 45 degrees to the rail. This setup also works with the fence clamp that comes with the MFT, using it you can adjust the fence to any angle.

Thanks again and please post feedback regarding how you are using them.

RMW

PM sent for a set.

 

[Alan m]

got my set today. fit was very tight  but fit with a push and had to push from underneeth to remove. that will hopefully mean high acuracy.
didnt try the other parts yet but they look great

report back  later

 

[Robert]

Received my set last week . Fit my MFT-3 just fine.Make  things a lot easier.I would like an MFT Fence clamp too. What are the chance s of sending me one.I think I have a $3.00 credit with Rip-Dog Thanks ,Robert [smile]

 

[rmwarren]

Robert, glad they fit. Have you used them much?

At this point the only fence clamp in existence is the one I made to test the idea, I will make them if I do another round of dogs.

In the meantime you can get by with a block of wood with 2 holes, 1/2" for the pin and 1/4" to bolt to the fence. Just make sure it is sized to pull the fence snug to the dog (5.5mm from edge of 1/2" hole to edge the side that touches the fence) and it will align itself to the MFT holes precisely.

Thanks.

RMW

Received my set last week . Fit my MFT-3 just fine.Make  things a lot easier.I would like an MFT Fence clamp too. What are the chance s of sending me one.I think I have a $3.00 credit with Rip-Dog Thanks ,Robert [smile]

 

[mhch]

I think there is somewhere on the Internet (may be from Marcel Paul) a video showing how to attach the MFT fence to the side of the MFT using two of these Festool devices initially intended to secure firmly one end of the fence.

This requires to make sure the fence is parallel to the proper hole alignment, using dogs and a spacing block.

 

[Robert]

Yes!Iam using The Clamping Elements  0n one side of the fence to keep it Parallel. Rip- Dogs on the other side! Works well.

 

[Emer Construction]

I got a chance to use the dogs on the mft.  I really liked it.  I felt that my cuts were more accurate. I never cut any angles on the mft, so I'm glad to get that big thing off of there.  It was really easy to make some cross cuts, clear the table to do something else, then drop right back in with perfect square cuts.  The only two down sides I can think of now are, that you loose some capacity, and now you need a place to put the rail after a cut.  I got my Incra track and stop today.  Still haven't had a chance to make my Ron Paulk table, but that's the plan.

 

[mhch]

I got a chance to use the dogs on the mft.  I really liked it.  I felt that my cuts were more accurate. I never cut any angles on the mft, so I'm glad to get that big thing off of there.  It was really easy to make some cross cuts, clear the table to do something else, then drop right back in with perfect square cuts.  The only two down sides I can think of now are, that you loose some capacity, and now you need a place to put the rail after a cut.  I got my Incra track and stop today.  Still haven't had a chance to make my Ron Paulk table, but that's the plan.

Up to now I use a fence made from an incra track attached to a piece of MDF, itself screwed on top of the side rail or laying on the MFT top as described in this FOG post

An idea that came up while reading your reply is to build MFT extensions with one support leg, may be just cutting a spare MFT top into two pieces, and laying each piece on each side of the MFT top,  aligning them using dogs through holes in both part and the MFT top. This way one can have a larger cut capacity when needed, and this with a much easier setup than trying to align two MFT side by side.

Hope what I describe is understandable (English is not my native language)

 

[Emer Construction]

I got a chance to use the dogs on the mft.  I really liked it.  I felt that my cuts were more accurate. I never cut any angles on the mft, so I'm glad to get that big thing off of there.  It was really easy to make some cross cuts, clear the table to do something else, then drop right back in with perfect square cuts.  The only two down sides I can think of now are, that you loose some capacity, and now you need a place to put the rail after a cut.  I got my Incra track and stop today.  Still haven't had a chance to make my Ron Paulk table, but that's the plan.

Up to now I use a fence made from an incra track attached to a piece of MDF, itself screwed on top of the side rail or laying on the MFT top as described in this FOG post

An idea that came up while reading your reply is to build MFT extensions with one support leg, may be just cutting a spare MFT top into two pieces, and laying each piece on each side of the MFT top,  aligning them using dogs through holes in both part and the MFT top. This way one can have a larger cut capacity when needed, and this with a much easier setup than trying to align two MFT side by side.

Hope what I describe is understandable (English is not my native language)

I did see your pictures in that post before i ordered the incra track.  i purchased these to mount the track and they work great.  Very solid, track comes off and goes back on really easy.  I already have a top that I will make into maybe 5' x 8' table.  Was gonna be 4x8 but soon realized you need space for the dogs.  Do you have a hard time reading the tape and setting the stop on the far side of the table?  wans't sure if this was going to be an issue.

 

[mhch]

Thanks for the pointer to these devices. I built my fence before such dog accessories existed, but now it's time for an upgrade using something like that. But I like this idea of using "extension tops" that just rest on the MFT top, one on each side, when more cut capacity is needed, using 20mm dogs running across holes in the extensions into those of the MFT top.

In reality I use a stick with a tape attached to it to set the stop, the stick against the Incra track, and moving the stick along the Incra track to align the proper tape reading with the kerf. Then I set the stop.
If needed I move to the opposite side of the MFT when doing this, so reading is easy.

 

[Emer Construction]

Thanks for the pointer to these devices. I built my fence before such dog accessories existed, but now it's time for an upgrade using something like that. But I like this idea of using "extension tops" that just rest on the MFT top, one on each side, when more cut capacity is needed, using 20mm dogs running across holes in the extensions into those of the MFT top.

In reality I use a stick with a tape attached to it to set the stop, the stick against the Incra track, and moving the stick along the Incra track to align the proper tape reading with the kerf. Then I set the stop.
If needed I move to the opposite side of the MFT when doing this, so reading is easy.

I gotcha...maybe something like this to attach the side wings to the mft? they are made for the kapex, but isn't it the same profile as the MFT?

 

[mhch]

Yes that would be a nice articulated attachment, thanks for the tip. Unfortunately my MFT is of the 2nd generation, no V grove on the side rails  [sad]