MFT - expandable

[woodpicker]

Just finished this. There are two drawers on both sides of the MFT cabinet. In the drawer, there is a piece of MDF can flip upward. It is used to support the top piece. The top piece lock in position by a few domino to the flip-up piece.

 

[woodpicker]

Three more images.

 

[ROb McGilp]

Hi Woodpicker,

That looks like something even I could make and use. I'm not too au fait with MFT's though. Is that an 800 or 1080?

Regards,

Rob

 

[woodpicker]

Hi Rob,

It is an 1080 on a cabinet cart. Plus I ordered a 489396 perforated plate. Cut it in half. Half on the right. Half on left. That give me 92" of table top. If taking the 1080 away. It is an 92" assembly table.

Another crazy idea on my next project. My 2nd 1080 will be sitting on a cabinet again. But that cabinet can be expanded both ways. Expanded to fatter and/or longer. I can also connect both cabinets together. Many ways.

Thanks for viewing.

Woodpicker

 

[jo041326]

Hi, interesting idea. But how sturdy is it? I think the shelf can't support much weight or pressure on it.
Joseph

 

[Eli]

How much do you need? they look like 75 or hundred pound slides. Good idea. You've been waiting to drop those pix, huh? (supersecret MFT project)

 

[Matthew Schenker]

woodpicker,
Great concept.  Expanding the MFT is one of the things we talk about a lot around here, taking an already-useful tool and making even better.  Over the past couple of years, the MFT has moved more and more to the center of my shop -- literally and figuratively.  I've experimented with all kinds of ways to expand it, while still keeping it compact enough.

I do have one request.  Can you please rename your post from "MFT - expendable" to "MFT - expandable"?

It's just one letter, but it makes quite a difference!  I say this only because searching for information is so crucial to this forum.  I don't think anyone will be searching for "expendable MFT"!!

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Ned]

I do have one request.  Can you please rename your post from "MFT - expendable" to "MFT - expandable"?

You have to admit "expendable" got your attention!

Ned

 

[woodpicker]

I use 100 lb rails. Since the main part are pretty heavy. The drawers are holding well there. I won't sit on it. But it is good enough to let me put a long piece of plywood there when I cut it. The extra space helps.

 

[woodpicker]

Just found the fence rail clamp can also be used this way. This will be out of the way when left side been expanded. Oppsss! I forgot its washer.

Still trying to figure out how to make MFT more useful... It's not big enough.

How about the idea of expanding it toward the front and/or back? Another 24"? Maybe just half of the perforated plate on both front ans rear side? 14" each? Then the guide rail will be on its way. 

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I use 100 lb rails. Since the main part are pretty heavy. The drawers are holding well there. I won't sit on it. But it is good enough to let me put a long piece of plywood there when I cut it. The extra space helps.

Lee Valley has some slides that have much higher load ratings - 250 lb and up.

Dave R. 

 

[Eli]

Still trying to figure out how to make MFT more useful... It's not big enough.

Use two 1080's. Get an 800. or add extension wings.

Not that I don't like the drawers, I think they're pretty boss.

 

[Roland Chung]

Pure Genius!!!  I'm struggling with how to configure my oversized mft.  I have been kicking around an idea of building a lower section first and being able to place either one large mft top in place (like Brian Gray's) or two 1080's.  Now I have to figure out how to incorporate your concept - decisions, decisions. 

Some questions:

1) Just curious, if you laid a straight-edge across the top would you see any deflection at the ends of the extensions with 30-50 lbs?  If so, is it 1/4" or 1/2" depending on the weight?

2) Are the edges of the outrigger pieces of MFT top grooved to sit on the edge of the 1080 extrusions (the picture is a little blurry)?

3) Is that shim permanently attached to the bottom of the outrigger pieces?

4) What is the height to the top of the assembly table (without the MFT)?

5)  Can you offer us more information about your next generation idea with the 2 MFT's?

Thanks,
RC

 

[neoshed]

I just wish I could see the thing  :'(

 

[woodpicker]

Hi Roland,

1. There is about 1/8" of deflection if you put weight only at the far end of the extension. Maybe a support piece swing out 90 degree from the bottom will help. But I think normally I won't put too much weight just at the edge. It will be like a helper. A place for tools, like TS55 after a cut, clamps, screws, etc. Or act like an extension to support a long piece of plywood. Inside the drawer it can be a place for some small MFT accessories.

2. The edge of the outrigger piece of MFT is just sit on the edge of the 1080. I use router to take out 1/4" off and created a slot, so it fit into the edge of the 1080. It is possible to put a metal angle piece to lock the extension top from the bottom. Since the 1080's table profile is right underneath the extension. Maybe a L something.

3. I put a shim at the bottom of the outrigger piece. Glued and screwed. So when the outrigger piece sit on top of the drawer it is flat to the cabinet cart top. A flat assembly table. Hmmm... not really flat. There are four small corner pieces. They are for locking the 1080 in place.

4. The height is 24 1/8". The total height (with 1080) is the same as an 1080 with it's legs down. So if I get another 1080 I can connect them by two connectors.

5. The next generation is still cooking. I have no idea yet. That's why I quickly post this to get some ideas from the group.  But this is what I am thinking right now... Since I have a small two car garage, probably I will buy another basic 1080, make another cabinet cart like this (change a little bit). Two 1080 carts can connect together in many ways. Either longer or fatter. I can lock their wheels. Join them with MFT connectors. I got a pretty big and flat surface for assembly. When the job is done, they are small enough. So I can park one of my car in.

Comments are welcome.

 

[woodpicker]

Close position and extended position.

 

[John Stevens]

Still trying to figure out how to make MFT more useful... It's not big enough.

Thanks for your ideas--very cool.  That said, I agree the stock MFT isn't big enough.  My large MFT (or at least the current version of my large MFT) is 1m from front to back, so it can be used to cut a standard bottom or top cabinet gable (side) lengthwise.

Expanding to the front or back is an idea I'm playing with in my imagination.  I'm thinking of a "T" or "L" shape, or maybe a "+" shape, with wings that would make it a rectangle...but it just doesn't seem like an efficient use of floor space when not expanded.  If you want to expand it front or back, it would probably be a good idea to ditch the rails around the edges of the MFT.  Replace them with wooden edges.  How do you mount the guide rails?  Either saw down a couple 200mm  (8") sections of rail and affix them to the front and back of the table, or mount 200mm sections of large t-tracks in the same positions as the tracks in the MFT rails.

In terms of wings, I was thinking of using KV folding shelf hardware, and making the wings out of torsion boxes so they won't flex when cantilevered beyond the ends of the hardware.   Not nearly as cool as your drawers, but I think it might be a little less effort and expense.

I also want to ditch the Festool fence and use an Incra fence, mounted to the front of the table.  Yes, I'd have to keep the wood from shifting forward while sawing or routing, but that's not so difficult.  The advantage of mounting the fence at the front of the table is that you never have to move it forward or backward to accommodate narrow or wide workpieces.  Use dominos w/o glue for a sturdy yet removable means of mounting the fence to the table.  Then square the guide rail to the fence rather than the other way around.  Put a piece of foam under the cut line while squaring the guide rail so you don't mark up your table too badly during the process.

One reason I'm leaning toward the dominos for fastening the fence in place (instead of the way Festool does it) is that it should be rock-solid and not require going under the table to install or remove.  I have problems with the fence budging a tiny bit when I have to push big pieces of ply up against it.  Last weekend I found myself making more tall cabinets, 1280+mm and 1500+mm, and I find I really have to use a lot of force to get big pieces like that flush against the fence for cutting.  No matter how gently I try to do it, it seems like I always manage to nudge the fence out of alignment at some point, and then I have to square it again.

Another thing I might try is mounting t-nuts in the middles of the grid of holes.  That way, you could make clamping fixtures and auxiliary fences that would be held in place by cam-clamps above the table.  Something like these:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=238.msg6219#msg6219

Having to reach under the table to clamp isn't terrible, but it's tedious.  An auxiliary fence pictured in the message linked above can function like clamps to trap a work piece in place  against a front-mounted fence while sawing or routing.  If the fence is fastened by means of a cam clamp bolted into a t-nut, then it might take little extra time or effort to do so.

Regards,

John

 

[Dave Rudy]

I also want to ditch the Festool fence and use an Incra fence, mounted to the front of the table.  Yes, I'd have to keep the wood from shifting forward while sawing or routing, but that's not so difficult. 

John,

Some great ideas, as usual.  I am right now experimenting with the Incra fence instead of the Festool.  What I have done so far (on my jumbo MFT) is to just screw the fence directly onto the mft top, adjacent to the long rail of the mft.  So far, I have not seen the need to remove the fence so I just decided to install it.  [If you did need a removable Incra fence, what about mounting the fence to a 1/4' strip of baltic birch, and drilling that for bolts which would fit in the track?  Might be easy on and off and return to exactly the same latitude (longitude?) each time you mounted it.]

I am also, as you suggest, squaring the rail to the fence instead of the other way around.  Once the rail is locked into position, it should remain square.  If I have to do angle cuts, which for me are so rare as not to really worry about, I will cut a wedge of the correct angle out of plywood or mdf to insert between fence and stock.

I have one issue I still deal with -- squaring.  The rail sits at least the thickness of the Incra fence above the MFT.  The Enco square is thinner than the Incra fence, so it is hard to use it for squaring.  I am relatively successful placing a piece of jointed square stock (1x2 or 3) on end next to the rail and squaring the other side of that stock with the Incra fence.  But I am trying to come up with an easier and more foolproof method for squaring -- any suggestions appreciated.  (If I added foamboard it would increase the problem by the height of the foamboard, since the rail would move the thickness of the foamboard further away from the MFT surface.)

The one thing I don't understand about your post is what is the wood shifting forward issue??

Dave

 

[John Stevens]

The one thing I don't understand about your post is what is the wood shifting forward issue??

Hi, Dave, thanks for the info on what you're doing with the Incra fence.

In respect to your question, I'm sorry my post wasn't clear.  I want to use the fence "backward" from the way it's normally used.  So the fence would be closer to me than the work piece.  Jerry Work discusses this, and has some pics of it in his MFS manual, pages 45-46.
http://www.festoolusa.com/Web_files/MFS_Jerry_Work.pdf

I've never tried it that way, but I'm anticipating that the wood might creep away from me just a smidgeon as I run the saw (or router) through it.  So I was thinking that it might be good to mount a "stop" on the far side of the work piece to trap it against the fence.

About your squaring problem, I have the same problem with my MFT, which is why I want to ditch the whole Festool fence and use one that will always be registered against the same reference points every time I re-mount it on the MFT.  One way to do this would be to register the fence against the edge of the table--front edge or back edge, take your pick.  If we register from the back edge, but our MFT is deep enough that we have to lean pretty far to clear the back edge of the workpiece with the saw blade or router bit, then that's going to cause an inconvenience.  Registering the fence against the front of the MFT avoids this inconvenience.

Another way to register the fence against the same reference points every time would be to sink a couple of dominos in the table, but not glue them in place.  When we're not using the fence and we want the whole surface flat, we push the dominos down so their flush with the table.  When we want to mount the fence, we push the dominos upward so they protrude a little bit above the surface, and register the fence against them.  If we square the guide rail to the fence, then the two should always be square to each other as long as there's no noticeable play in the domino mortises.  Considering that the table top is only MDF, we might need to reinforce the area where the mortises lie.

Sorry I don't have any pics or CAD illustrations to show what I mean--this is a situation in which a pic would be worth 1,000 words.

Regards,

John

 

[Corwin]

I like referencing the Incra fence off the rear edge of the MFT.  If this proves too long a reach for you, why not mount the fence atop some MDF that is wide enough for the fence to mount along its' front edge while the rear edge still aligns with the back of the MFT's top.  One could even go so far as to add a lip or locating pins that would hang down from the back edge to align with the table top.

If I can ever get all this house painting gear out of my shop...  But, tomorrow looks dry 

Corwin