MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions

[Jerry Work]

It is the preferred method for dealing with wood movement.  What I mean by flat panel is that I book match all my solid wood panels at 10mm thick so they fit into the 10 x 10mm grooves in the rail and stile components.  I leave the panels flat instead of building them thicker and then routing or shaping an edge profile which leaves the center high, the edges 10mm thick to fit into the grooves and some form of decorative profile in the transition between thick and thin parts of the panel.  That is what is commonly referred to as a raised panel.  Interestingly the Shakers used a raised panel on the insides of their doors, but left the panel flat on the front side where it showed.

Jerry

Thanks, Jerry, for listing your specific choices of router bits and why you chose them!  I'm not certain I understand what you describe as a "flat panel" construction compared to "raised panel" construction.  I know what the latter is and thought that a proven construction to deal with the expansion / contraction movement that naturally occurs when working with solid wood.

Dave R.

 

[Jerry Work]

Hi all,

I just updated the tutorial on my web site that describes how to mount the MFK700 to the side of either the MFT or the MFT3 and how to build a guide rail sled to use that router with a guide rail.  What I added was information on how to make a micro-adjuster from the Fine Adjustment piece from the 1010 router (488-754).  With this adjuster in place the height the bit tip sticks up above the surface of the table can be easily set in 0.05mm increments (about .002").  No modifications are required to the table, the router or to the Fine Adjustment piece.  The downloadable .pdf is located at:
http://jerrywork.com > tutorials

Hope it helps.

Jerry

 

[webfarmer]

My key question would be: can the MFT3 be joined to a previous model MFT? ???

 

[mhch]

My key question would be: can the MFT3 be joined to a previous model MFT? ???

Unfortunately NO, as far as I know (different heights,  different side extrusions).

This is not quite satisfactory from a customer point of view, specially if
one is not convinced that the new MFT is that better than the old one,
specially when the Guide Rail Alignment and Squareness problem is fixed
as described inhttp://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=2757.0.

The CMS attachment and the vac sys may not be of interest to many,
specially given their costs.

 

[nickao]

Of course not stock out of the box.  Well you know with modifications anything can be done.

I am sure someone on this forum will make the changes necessary and combine the two if for no other reason to just show it can be done. Whether it makes sense or not someone will try it.

Nick

 

[kmhphoto]

As promised, here's a video showing the cross members in action.  Pay close attention near the beginning of the video where Rick shows the table without the cross members installed.

Considering how unstable the table looks at the start of this video does anyone else think that the extra stabilizers should have been supplied as standard rather than as an extra, especially as the new table is smaller than the old one but more expensive - in the uk at least?

 

[Ned]

Good video, shows exactly what I wanted to know about the braces.

I think that the wobbliness of the MFT3 may have been exaggerated.  On my older MFT, I always give the legs a tug near the floor to put them under a bit of tension.  The wobbliness in the video is exactly what I see if I just unfold the legs, place the table upright, and don't pull the legs.

Ned

 

[robsw]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum and to Festool, recently purchasing a Domino, CT22, TS55, OF1400, some guide rails and clamps and now considering the MFT/3. But after seeing the video of how unstable it is without the cross members I'm having serious doubts about it. If I'm looking down on a table top with even the slightest wobble I get dizzy and would have to step back and look away. If the wobbliness was exaggerated (to sell you on the crossmembers), even the slightest movement is no good for me. The message I get with this video is spend $575 for a wobbly table and purchase these cross members to make it sturdy. Good demo for the cross members but a bad demo for the MFT/3.

Rob

 

[semenza]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum and to Festool, recently purchasing a Domino, CT22, TS55, OF1400, some guide rails and clamps and now considering the MFT/3. But after seeing the video of how unstable it is without the cross members I'm having serious doubts about it. If I'm looking down on a table top with even the slightest wobble I get dizzy and would have to step back and look away. If the wobbliness was exaggerated (to sell you on the crossmembers), even the slightest movement is no good for me. The message I get with this video is spend $575 for a wobbly table and purchase these cross members to make it sturdy. Good demo for the cross members but a bad demo for the MFT/3.

Rob

Hi, Rob 

        Welcome to the forum 

                          That is an interesting take on the video.  Perhaps the wobbliness has been exagerated  for the demo of the braces?  With people now obtaining the MFT/3 for real  we should soon know from those that have them.

Seth

 

[graphex]

I now have an MFT3, and very much like it. It set up square right out of the box, and is an absolute dream to work with. I've used it for a whole 8 cuts so far, but did lots of measuring and checking out of everything and see no flaws. Literally my only complaint is that the machining where the fence is notched for the guide rail to allow the cutting of really thin pieces left a little burr which I had to take a file to 

Wobbliness is definitely exaggerated in those videos. If you have a metal bar that long it has some give to it and that is all you are seeing; just the springiness of steel bars. It isn't wobbly; it is just made of metal. It feels very solid but you can make the top move if you apply lateral force.

From the video, I had my doubts too, and wondered if I would want to get the cross braces. After I unfolded mine I decided I didn't need to. If I was planning on doing some hand planing on the table or something else where I was applying significant lateral force, I would probably want them, but the table feels very sturdy without them.

Yeah, it is a $575 folding table with a miter fence and rail. If you melt it down of course it isn't worth that much. It is very well built and very precise, though. Worth every penny to me.

 

[Fred West]

Sean, I too now have the MFT/3 and I got the Cross Member Supports. I noticed NO wobbliness out of the box also but I must say that the single support that I was able to attach really made a difference and when I get the second one on I think I will be able to hand plane quite easily on it.

My single complaint would be the manual for the MFT/3 as well as for the Cross Member Support. The MFT/3 manual to me looks like it was one of those translated from Chinese. For instance the factory stops are set at 8 3/4" and 7 2/3" 7 and 2/3" give me a break. Secondly the manual gives little to no help whatsoever in the initial setup of the angle guide and rail system. I have had a few of the other manuals bother me but nothing like this one.

As good as the Festool tools are is as bad as most of the manuals and I do not understand why? How can Festool be so amazing at making world class tools and yet give us manuals that in some cases literally look like poorly translated Chinese junk?

Please do not misinterpret what I am saying as I LOVE the MFT/3 from even the very brief amount of time I have had it and looking at my signature you can see that Festool and I are One. I just hate the manuals and do not understand the brevity, the poor wording and the absolute lack of help that most of them represent. Thank goodness for Jerry, Ned, Brice and everyone else who has jumped in and filled this void. Fred

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Fred,

I think it was Per that recently mentioned this but we (Festool USA) are working to address the lack of documentation.  I don't have any specifics because I am not involved in that particular project.  It's in the works.

 

[Fred West]

Shane, thank you and sorry for the rant. I broke a Cross Member Support after trying to follow the instructions even knowing they were wrong and then was just completely befuddled by the MFT/3 literature. Somehow I also missed Per's post on this and I apologize for that. Fred

 

[graphex]

The manual is poor. I don't care because I've got FOG...

My take is that a lawyer writes the manuals (in either chinese, german or some strange dialect of spanish) and basically just performs the perfunctory ass covering that lawyers are known for. If they put in any more information than they absolutely have to then they could be liable for anyone misinterpreting that information, so they leave it out.

The supplemental manuals referenced on this site and on festoolusa.com are excellent, so I just stick to them.

BTW - in setting up my boom arm for my new CT33 - I just about destroyed it. I'm going to start a thread on that odyssey and post some pictures when I get a chance, but I can see how something like a broken cross member might happen now!

 

[Fred West]

Sean, I totally agree about having the FOG and thank goodness for that. As far as the cross member goes, I was just stupid to follow the picture manual they sent as I had seen the video, etc.  Still I thought I would give it a shot. On the HUGE plus side, I called Timmy C. and told him about it and BAM, he went to work on it for me. Great service!!!!! 8)

By the way, the piece that I broke was the plastic insert down at the bottom of the support that the bolt goes through. Actually a little bit put off by the fact that it had a plastic piece to begin with and secondly that it could be broken so easily. Fred

 

[nickao]

Guys, to me the wobbly or shakiness or stiffness or whatever you call it is not the main factor if you want to hand plane or do any serious lateral movement of any kind with an MFT/3. No matter how darn stiff you make that table, it is made to be broken down and carried around. It is the WEIGHT that matters. The table is too light for shop work for many applications for me.

I think what the table is made for it works very well.

I have stated before that I would like to see a heavy duty shop bench made with some of the same concepts of the MFT/3. Many people have pointed out that the Festools are supposed to be moved around and for field work. Well in America that is NOT what I have seen in the last 25 years or even the last two years. I have two neighbors both  carpenters and when I mentioned Festools they did  not even know what I was talking about. I believe most of these tools are being used in shops and home shops and not in the field like they are abroad. Many have already stated they do not bring the Festools to work and leave them at home.

Festool please make an MFT/3 table worthy of handing down to my son. Some of us want something more than a fairly flimsy folding table to carry around. They will sell! I am going to have to make one and I would much rather just pay for one and be done with it. It needs the same type top, drawers with nice slides, storage compartments, etc. And I would love it to weigh 400 lbs or more! I would imagine a table like this to cost around 2500.00 to 3000.00 which is what the better, bigger benches cost.

I was thinking of starting a thread for a "dream shop MFT" and after everyone has contributed I would design and build a prototype. There are many nice design already on the forum as good starting points, but none that has everything I was thinking of.

Nickao

 

[Fred West]

Nick, that sounds wonderful and I would also easily buy into a big workbench built around the MFT/3 model. Fred

 

[robsw]

I don't plan on hand planing with the MFT/3 but use it for cross cutting, sanding, glue-ups, some router operations. Basically use it what it's made for. However, the demonstrator in the video is only using the tips of his fingers to show the lateral movement without the crossmembers. Maybe it's just me but I don't understand why Festool would point out the differences with and without the crossmembers and exaggerate it at that. Why not include the crossmembers and increase the price accordingly? Making a more sturdy MFT or any table for that matter, an "option" with an additional expense makes no sense to me. I hope people see my point here and know that I'm not bashing it. Since I'm already "on the slope" I might just buy the MFT/3 and if it wobbled too much for me I can fold the legs and place it on my sturdy bench and use it that way. Then I would have a totally different take on this and wish Festool made the MFT/3 legs an optional accessory too. 

Rob

 

[Steve Jones]

I had a little "heavy adjustment" to make to a few boards this afternoon, and decided that the clamping features of the MFT would be great, so i threw mine on top of my usual cutting table with the legs folded - it has small feet at the base of the corner pieces I guess for this purpose.

Actually I found it worked great, no wobble, and at the end of it my back didn't hurt! - I suspect because of the unusual height, but I found I could really get behind the plane and use my weight instead of my back muscles.

The cutting table is 35" high and the MFT adds another 8" - so I'm at 43" high - I know, against all current wisdom regarding ergomic science, I just know I was way more comfortable than I expected to be.

I guess my point is, anyone wanting to make a custom solid stand for the MFT could do a lot worse than making or using some cabinets (basically what my cutting table is) - the MFT sits on the corner pieces with plenty of room to reach underneath to fit the knobs for the clamping elements.

 

[nickao]

I don't plan on hand planing with the MFT/3 but use it for cross cutting, sanding, glue-ups, some router operations. Basically use it what it's made for. However, the demonstrator in the video is only using the tips of his fingers to show the lateral movement without the cross members. Maybe it's just me but I don't understand why Festool would point out the differences with and without the cross members and exaggerate it at that. Why not include the cross members and increase the price accordingly? Making a more sturdy MFT or any table for that matter, an "option" with an additional expense makes no sense to me. I hope people see my point here and know that I'm not bashing it. Since I'm already "on the slope" I might just buy the MFT/3 and if it wobbled too much for me I can fold the legs and place it on my sturdy bench and use it that way. Then I would have a totally different take on this and wish Festool made the MFT/3 legs an optional accessory too. 

Rob

I would love the MFT's offered with no legs for a discount!

I have the triple top MFT setup with the long profile rails(72").

I attached 4" x 4" Ash legs in the corners and they carriage bolted in perfectly in the stock table corners brackets, with  no modifications at all. Higher, stronger and much more stable!

With a front and rear cross member installed with a half lap joint, the table is solid. With two more connecting the sides front to back it is rock stable! I use the cross members to rest one leg up on, to relieve my back pain. This took a couple hours at most and the table has 4 times the weight and you can not rack the table. If you try to wiggle the top with great force, only the entire table slides across the floor. This would never happen in use unless you tried to do it.

This was my quick and easy fix until I can make a complete bench.

Dan do not get on me to put up pictures, I will eventually!

Nickao