MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions

[nickao]

Dave I do not confuse your excitement of genuinely liking of a tool as an advertisement. I personally did not think of it. To someone just cruising the forum and not knowing you through your posts and emails, you are right, they can easily think that.

As far as accessories it has been a sticking point for me from the beginning with Festool. Business reasons aside it is a snub to us in the USA. Festool would easily sell more Mft/3 if all the accessories were available on the same release date. Festool has a track record of NOT ever offering certain accessories to the USA. I am not selling 6 mft 1080's on the hopes that accessories will be sold in the future.

To me the "T" slot is the most universally accepted method for jig and fixture making, here and abroad. I have a library of what I feel is a good amount of books from all over the world and from many of the more famous jig makers. I have not seen the V groove set up in any of the books.This "v" slot is proprietary and forces people to purchase the Festool accessories. Well, it would if they offered them here. One would think the dealers would be screaming to Festool to offer the accessories as their profit is far better on the accessories than the power tools.

I don't buy the UL bull crap and the other excuses Festool offers up in not providing us with certain accessories. If Festool wants to advertise it as a system than sell the system in its entirety.

Of course a little jig could be made to make the "V" groove work with the "T' slot and vice versa so I am not sweating it nor will I go and sell off my 1080's which I feel are superior FOR ME. Most of the pros to people are cons to me, weight, the new rails, etc.

I am not saying that the MFT/3 isn't a great thing for new buyers, but its benefits are highly diminished without the accessories offered everywhere else.

The "V" groove is a standard for Festool, I am not so sure about it being a European standard. Even if it is we do not live in Europe.

Shane thanks for the info on the braces working on the old model Mft's,  I will re-order the supports and try them out.

Nickao

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

You're welcome, Nickao.  Truthfully, UL approval is the reason for the majority of products offered in Europe not being available in the U.S.  Trust me, we want to offer the full line as much as you guys want us to offer it.  I would like to point out that the OF 2200 and MFT/3 were announced and made available in the U.S. before other markets.  I don't know if this will become a trend or not.

 

[nickao]

You're welcome, Nickao.  Truthfully, UL approval is the reason for the majority of products offered in Europe not being available in the U.S.  Trust me, we want to offer the full line as much as you guys want us to offer it.  I would like to point out that the OF 2200 and MFT/3 were announced and made available in the U.S. before other markets.  I don't know if this will become a trend or not.

Thank you Shane, that is a trend I wouldn't mind at all! I am drooling over that Vac Pump System!

Nick

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Thank you Shane, that is a trend I wouldn't mind at all! I am drooling over that Vac Pump System!

It's a pretty slick gadget.  I could see it most beneficial when routing personally.  We put a piece of 8/4 walnut that was about 5 feet long and vac clamped it on one end and you could put substantial pressure on the opposite end without a problem.  It was like a huge diving board.  Not that doing that is a practical application but we wanted to see what the limits were.

 

[nickao]

I template route all day. Clamping(taping down, etc) the pieces is the most frustrating part. I use a vacuum pump as a clamp for some operations, but it is shared with my vacuum press which is its main function for me.

A Vac Clamp System in the Festool format really appeals to me.

Nickao

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

As promised, here's a video showing the cross members in action.  Pay close attention near the beginning of the video where Rick shows the table without the cross members installed.

Edit: Please refer to the thread linked below regarding the stability of the MFT/3.  This video is meant to provide an example of the difference made by the installation of the cross braces.  It is not intended to represent the stability of the MFT/3 without the braces.  The stock MFT/3 is quite sturdy without the optional support braces.  http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=3438.0

 

[Michael Kellough]

Here you go, guys.  Cross members attached to a MFT 1080.

The first image shows the screws that will need to be loosen in order to slide the profile apart.  You may also need to remove the torx screw which secures the top.

Why don't you have to do the same with the MFT 3?

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Why don't you have to do the same with the MFT 3?

Michael, this is just one more examples of our engineers in Germany realizing the shortcomings of the previous generation of a product and coming up with a solution to overcome it.  The MFT/3's T-channel extends through the corner piece to the end.  So you can slide the nut in without removing it.  The lighting in my garage is less than perfect for night time photography and I didn't feel like dragging out lighting equipment.  But here are some quick snapshots.

 

[Corwin]

Thanks Shane, and thanks to those engineers!  Now, is that gray piece that looks to cover the upper edge of the profile on the left used to protect the profile and your material as you tip/lift larger material on the table?

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Thanks Shane, and thanks to those engineers!  Now, is that gray piece that looks to cover the upper edge of the profile on the left used to protect the profile and your material as you tip/lift larger material on the table?

Corwin,  I think it just an optical illusion.  The piece that appears to be more gray is just the V-groove on the side facing the camera.

 

[Jerry Work]

Hi all,

I just posted a tutorial on my web site jerrywork.com > tutorials that describes how to build a guide rail sled or stop for the MFK700 router and how to mount it to the side of either the MFT or the MFT3 tables for use as a horizontal router.  I think you might enjoy the read.

Jerry

 

[nickao]

Thank you sir.

Nickao

 

[CharlesWilson]

Thanks, Jerry. It looks like the MK700 will be my newest acquisition.

One more question, though. With the Festool 14mm and 20mm dovetail bits, what wood species would require more power than the MFK700 has to offer for cutting female dovetails?

Charles

 

[Jerry Work]

Hi Charles, 

I started a reply and got interrupted by a phone call so don't know if it posted or not.  If not, here goes again.  I have yet to find a wood species that requires more power than the 700 can deliver.  My standard is for 10mm deep groves, so have not tested at greater depths.  I have found no need to pre-plow a clearance grove so cut all sliding dts at full depth in one pass.  I have yet to break a Festool 8mm shank bit nor have I found a need to resharpen one.  In the hardest woods like the tropical resinous semi-exotics I can hear a difference in the sound made by the 700 than by the 1010 or 1400, but it cuts just as well, doesn't slow down  and does not over heat.  If anything, dust collection may be a bit better, but DC for any slot cut is not great.  So far all gain and no pain.  The interesting question for me will be how often the really nice but heavy 2200 will make it into my hands and how often I will reach for the 1400 over the 700 or the 1010.  So far, not as often as I originally thought.  Keep in mind that I design and hand craft fine furniture so that governs my router use.  I will post more as I learn more.

Jerry

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Thanks, Jerry.  You're tutorial increases my interest in an MFK 700 because I do want to incorporate sliding dovetails into my projects.  Prior to this, I was thinking of doing them using the rig that you earlier designed using spare MFT rails and a 1010 router (which I also don't have).

Dave R.

 

[Jerry Work]

Hi Dave,

Interesting question.  I like the 1010  and the 1400 a LOT and use both daily.  What I am finding is that for the majority of my work the 700 works well, is lighter and easier to control.  (sorry Festool).  The 700 and the 1010 look to have the same shaft and collet mount although I doubt they are the same.  They do share collets.  The new 2200 collets are sealed and I would guess the newer generation of 1400 collets may be sealed as well, although mine are not.  The 1010 mounts easily on the side of a MFT as a horizontal router such as I described in Appendix A of the MFS manual, but not as easily as the 700 which requires no modifications (save a shallow recess if you use it on a previous generation MFT). 

The 1010 is a plunge router while the 700 is not.  For it, bit depth range is about 20mm.  Not a lot of difference in power between 720 and 1010 watts, but there is a great difference in bit depth range if you need that.  When I need to plow a deep recess as I did for the large conference table recently installed in Las Vegas, there is no question I want the biggest, baddest router on the planet....the 2200.  For most all other furniture work I want the lightest, easiest to handle, unless I need the plunge capability.  Hence the need for both the 1010 and the 1400. 

The other factor is what you have in the way of satisfactory router bits.  Most of my 1/2" bits rest unused in a drawer.  The ones I use day in and day out are the very high quality Festool 8mm shank bits.  As I have said before, I have never broken one and never resharpened one so I guess I am biased for all the right reasons.  Are they expensive, not from my POV.  Expensive is when one breaks in the middle of a customer project.......

Jerry

Thanks, Jerry.  You're tutorial increases my interest in an MFK 700 because I do want to incorporate sliding dovetails into my projects.  Prior to this, I was thinking of doing them using the rig that you earlier designed using spare MFT rails and a 1010 router (which I also don't have).

Dave R.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Thanks, again, Jerry.  I have a 1400, a 13A Freud with both fixed and plunge bases, and a PC 7518 with JoinTech lift.  The only Festool bits I have are for use with the Hole Drilling Set.  You're repeated testimonials about the quality and durability of Festool's router bits certainly speak highly for them.  I guess I should try a few.

Would you please recommend a basic set of Festool router bits for those of us who don't yet have a collection?  I assume you have a few straight and at least one dovetail bit in your "most used" group of bits.

Dave R.

 

[Jerry Work]

Router bit selection is driven by what you do and how you work.  I never recommend buying sets of bits since most will sit idle in a drawer over the years.

I build to a standard where rail and stile components are 20 x 50mm, all tongues are 10 x 10mm and grooves are 10mm deep unless there is some compelling reason for different measurements.  As a result of these standards it is not surprising that my most used bits are in those dimensions plus both the 14.3 and 20mm DT bits.  I much prefer 15 degree DT bits as they make a stronger joint that is less fussy about fit than the 5 to 9 degree DT bits that are often used because they allow a template to work over a wider range of stock thicknesses. 

I seldom do raised panels as I like the cleaner look of flat panels which bring out the best in the book matched solid woods and burls from which most of my panels are constructed.  On the rare occasions when a customer asks for a raised panel I steer them towards the simple rounded bead look of the European panel raiser bits.  I like to keep a sharp "V" groove bit around for building jigs and fixtures since it is easy to mark exact bit center lines with that bit.  A couple of pattern following bits, one with a top bearing and one with a bottom bearing are handy for pattern work. 

If you buy quality bits as you need them, over time your bit drawer will fill up only with bits useful to the way you work.

Jerry

Thanks, again, Jerry.  I have a 1400, a 13A Freud with both fixed and plunge bases, and a PC 7518 with JoinTech lift.  The only Festool bits I have are for use with the Hole Drilling Set.  You're repeated testimonials about the quality and durability of Festool's router bits certainly speak highly for them.  I guess I should try a few.

Would you please recommend a basic set of Festool router bits for those of us who don't yet have a collection?  I assume you have a few straight and at least one dovetail bit in your "most used" group of bits.

Dave R.

 

[semenza]

If you buy quality bits as you need them, over time your bit drawer will fill up only with bits useful to the way you work.

Jerry

HI,

      That there is some excellent advise on buying router bits.    Much better off with a couple of top quality bits that get used  than a set of lower quality that don't get used.

Seth

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Thanks, Jerry, for listing your specific choices of router bits and why you chose them!  I'm not certain I understand what you describe as a "flat panel" construction compared to "raised panel" construction.  I know what the latter is and thought that a proven construction to deal with the expansion / contraction movement that naturally occurs when working with solid wood.

Dave R.