MFT3, Walko, or self built (MFTC)?

[VirtuaLogic]

Hi Guys,

I have a heck of a dilemma, and/or chicken/egg problem. I need a good workbench. I have a few Festools, as well as a few older Makita tools that I put into systainers (so building a sys-port is a logical step, but I'll get to that later).

To build decent projects I need a decent work surface. Currently I only own a workmate knock-off not suitable for any square cutting whatsoever. A plus about it is that it folds up pretty small, and with my shed (can't call it a shop) that's really necessary. It's about 3,5m x 2,5m and also holds 2 bikes, a small fridge, 2 storage racks full of crap the wife doesn't want in the house, and some gardening equipment. I also want to be able to park my motocycle inside when it starts to get cold (fortunately we've had a pretty soft winter so far). So there is no place for a reasonable sized stationary workbench, and also I want to be able to work outside because inside the shed can be really cramped. Mobility is thus a big factor.

I really like timtool's MFTC, but in order to be able to build it I need a decent bench, chicken, egg. Also, the MFTC is really nice when you're working on floor level, but I don't see myself hauling that thing to a second or even third floor, where I. It is a plus that the MFTC also acts as a sys-port.

Then there is the Walko. The 4 is a bit heavy but nice and tall (I'm 1m90 myself), the 3 is a lot lighter and more mobile. The Walko benches can be put flat against a wall, which would alow me to put the worktable at my desired height even with a Walko 3, so with mobility in mind I favour the 3 above the 4. The current models with the rubberwood tables supposedly have the 20mm holes in a square grid like the MFT. It can be laid flat to rip big sheets, but I don't own a van so it's unlikely I'll ever buy big sheet goods. It is also bit expensive, and not part of "the system".

The MFT/3 then. Festool green is always nice. Looking a little more critical at the MFT there are a few things; it's not rock solid stable. It's crazy expensive (€518,95 before taxes is the cheapest I found it online in The Netherlands). The fence and flip-up rail attachment are nice for cross cutting, but that could be done on the Walko and MFTC too with a few (parf)dogs and a jig or homemade fence. It just does not seem like the best choice.

A big plus for the Walko is I can use it while on the wall in the shed, because the shed is too small to set up any bench; Walko, MFTC or MFT/3. For the MFTC and MFT/3 I'd need an additional (semi-)stationary sys-port workbench. That is not neccessarily a bad thing, I need to store my systainers somewhere in any case, it's just affecting the layout of the shed.

Summarizing:
MFTC
+ Mobile on ground floor
+ Sys-port
+ Integrates in Festool system
- Only for use on ground floor
- I don't have the means to decently make one yet

MFT/3
+ Mobile, on any floor
+ Comes with fence and guiderail
+ Integrates in Festool system
- Has a reputation to be wobbly
- Really expensive

Walko 3
+ Mobile, on any floor
+ Can be put upright and then used while in the shed
o Only partly integrates in Festool system
- A bit expensive

Some more info about me:
- I have some experience in home improvement (as most people in NL, seems it's a national sport here  [big grin]). I want to make built-in cabinets, for example on our top floor (attic) under a slanted roof, and an extension to our kitchen.
- I do not have much experience with making furniture or other fancy woodworking. I'd like to build a small "tea chest" for my wife in the future, but no other fancy handwork planned. Planing and chiseling and such are not what I do. I plan to use mostly power tools (I don't buy Festool for nothing).
- Festools I own: a CT MIDI, a PS420 jigsaw, and C15 drill. I plan on aquiring an OF1010 and TS55REBQ very soon.

I realise I did not pose clear questions in my post, I'm just looking for any and all advise you guys can give me.

Cheers,  Alex.

 

[dsh1705]

You might want to check out the plans for the workbench that Ron Paulk sells: http://stores.modularmarket.com/paulk_homes/. You can check out his YouTube videos, as well: http://www.youtube.com/user/crpaulk

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Alex

Given your relatively small workshop space I would go for the MFT3. It is a brilliant work bench, can be used in so many different ways and folds up when you need to get the Gazelle or BMW in.

Timtool's  mobile bench is very clever but too big for your shop. I cannot comment on the Walko as I have never handled one.

Peter

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

Alex, I hear you. Good post. 
That Walko is interesting and has me thinking. It seems easy enough to build. I might simplify it. It appears to work off the saw horse concept. I may even try to build this the next time I get my hands on some 2x4's. I would build two frames and connect the center brackets, also made of 2x4's with door hinges...then, drill 20mm holes into 3/4 MDF and attach. Make leg supports with either interlocking 2x4's or pipe. It would be a relatively inexpensive folding and portable table that's more stable than an MFT. Get some parf dogs and you have it!

 

[RC]

I'd like to my 2¢ about the stability of the MFT/3. No, its not solid like a heavy work bench, But its plenty stable for powertool use. You can get the cross members that connect to the MFT's legs and table bottom to add stability. I've found that I can do mild planing on my MFT with the cross supports in place.

You might also want to look into the CMS system for portable table tools.

 

[rjwz28]

Alex, I made this recently as I don't have a lot of space so I can stand it against a wall.  I put it on 2 sawhorses and it is solid.  I had a folding Astro workbench and it was heavy and not as sturdy as this setup.  I had the top holes drilled by a cnc machine so I can cut exactly 90 degrees when using the Parf Dogs and my track saw.

Rob

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/latest-homemade-mft/msg291495/#msg291495

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

Alex, I made this recently as I don't have a lot of space so I can stand it against a wall.  I put it on 2 sawhorses and it is solid.  I had a folding Astro workbench and it was heavy and not as sturdy as this setup.  I had the top holes drilled by a cnc machine so I can cut exactly 90 degrees when using the Parf Dogs and my track saw.

Rob

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/latest-homemade-mft/msg291495/#msg291495

Rob, I liked this. Quick, easy, and inexpensive! Is that an Incra track on the side? Is it fixed or removeable?

 

[nclemmons]

I have a Walko 3 and an MFT/3 as well as a traditional woodworkers bench I made and a couple of other benches.

I use the MFT/3 the most even when they are all set up and usable.  

Walko is great with adjustability and flexibility but the tops are a bit small for many jobs I do.  It tends to be a secondary bench to the MFT/3, often for assembly.  It's legs do not flex much so a relatively even floor is necessary or you will need to shim the legs for stability.  I have not used it for sheet goods cutting with it laid out flat.  I tend to span wood across the the MFT and Walko for sheet goods when I need to cut them down.  The top level setting of the Walko 3 is almost the same height as the MFT/3 - within a few mm's.  I have not tried it against the wall but that could be handy in certain instances.  

I have a shelf under my MFT3 with some tools on it and use the stabilizers and find it plenty stable except for hand planing when I go to my main bench.  Walko is less stable in terms sliding across a shop floor than the MFT/3 as I have mine configured with weight and stabilizers.  But you can put your foot on the cross brace of the Walko to help stabilize.

Robs idea of a drilled top with sawhorses is certainly an option if you want to save money to start.  I use the holes a lot for clamping on both the Walko and MFT.

If I could only have one bench, it would be the MFT/3.  For sheet goods, a high sawhorse that aligns to the MFT and an MFT will go a long way for the tools you own and are considering.

Neil

 

[Timtool]

Timtool's  mobile bench is very clever but too big for your shop. I cannot comment on the Walko as I have never handled one.

Peter

Actually the MFTC is smaller than an MFT, it's the same length but a bit more narrow. With the extension tables it's larger obviously, but just under the size of a full sheet.
But in Alex's situation an MFT may be the best option if you really often need to go upstairs. But it's still bulky to carry upstairs and weighs about as much as an empty MFTC.

 

[cje]

But in Alex's situation an MFT may be the best option if you really often need to go upstairs. But it's still bulky to carry upstairs and weighs about as much as an empty MFTC.

You could put the MFTC on a pair of these for hauling it to the 3rd floor:
[attachimg=#]

 

[dutchie]

I previously owned a Walko 3 and thought it was a great workbench, however I did end up selling it to buy a second hand MFT 1080.

While I liked the mobility and stability of the Walko in the end I found the work surface too small. The holes in mine (2009~2010 model) did fit bench dogs but they were really really snug and needed some force to get them out. This way I was able to make square cuts with bench dogs over the width of 1 of the 'bench surfaces' but you can't span it over the middle from 'bench surface' to 'bench surface' if you understand what I mean. In my case these were not 100% aligned so a cut also wouldn't be square!

So I ended up selling it second hand and bought a used MFT 1080 since those cost about the same used as a used Walko. However I did find the MFT 1080 to be really wobbly compared to my Walko. Also the model I bought had too small holes to use my bench/rail dogs. I had to order a new top which does have 20mm holes. I read somewhere here on FOG that they changed the hole size in 2006/2007 and that now all (replacement)tops have the same hole size (as the MFT 3).

Oh and one more downside of the MFT 1080 that it's 10cm lower then the MFT 3. 80 cm vs 90 cm for the MFT 3. Which is not ideal with me being 1.90m/6"3 like you

Just my € 0,02. I'd go for a MFT...either 1080 or 3. Perhaps if you went with the 1080 you could just make your square cuts with rail dogs and spend the money you save on a TS55 REBQ

 

[Stone Message]

Timtool's  mobile bench is very clever but too big for your shop. I cannot comment on the Walko as I have never handled one.

Peter

Actually the MFTC is smaller than an MFT, it's the same length but a bit more narrow. With the extension tables it's larger obviously, but just under the size of a full sheet.
But in Alex's situation an MFT may be the best option if you really often need to go upstairs. But it's still bulky to carry upstairs and weighs about as much as an empty MFTC.

My apologies Tim - I thought that the MFT3 folded was smaller - you learn something every day.

Peter

 

[Timtool]

My apologies Tim - I thought that the MFT3 folded was smaller - you learn something every day.

Peter

Hello Peter, if you mean folded up then an MFT has the smallest footprint. But the MFTC then still serves as a sysport so it's not really wasted space.

 

[rjwz28]

Alex, I made this recently as I don't have a lot of space so I can stand it against a wall.  I put it on 2 sawhorses and it is solid.  I had a folding Astro workbench and it was heavy and not as sturdy as this setup.  I had the top holes drilled by a cnc machine so I can cut exactly 90 degrees when using the Parf Dogs and my track saw.

Rob

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/latest-homemade-mft/msg291495/#msg291495

Rob, I liked this. Quick, easy, and inexpensive! Is that an Incra track on the side? Is it fixed or removeable?

Yes it is the Incra.  I believe the Festool quick clamps work in this track.  It isn't removable per se.  It's screwed on.

Rob

 

[rjwz28]

Alex, this is what I made last year.  It was really heavy and kind of a pain to set up (I'm Lazy).  It also moved when you put pressure or weight from the sides.  My newer one on the sawhorses is way better.  Rock solid.  I believe the MFT's do move some.  Not bashing the MFT, just an observation as a portable work bench.  If it is set on a table it is solid of course.  That I think is a price you pay for having it foldable.

Rob

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/homemade-mft-done-wpics/msg234510/#msg234510

 

[Stone Message]

My apologies Tim - I thought that the MFT3 folded was smaller - you learn something every day.

Peter

Hello Peter, if you mean folded up then an MFT has the smallest footprint. But the MFTC then still serves as a sysport so it's not really wasted space.

Alex might consider your design as the MFTC (with docked systainers) will take up less room than the MFT3 with (separate) systainers. It would also make it easier for him to work outside on dry days - it would give the neighbours something to talk about.

Peter

 

[jonathan-m]

I'd go Walko 4 for it's versatility and stability. I have an MFT/3 and while it's OK, I do think it's overrated though.

 

[VirtuaLogic]

Thanks for all the replies!

All things considered I've drawn a few conclusions:
When not in use / folded up
- MFT/3 folds up relatively small, but has no function when folded up
- Walko can be put up on wall and be used for work that does not require a lot of space
- MFTC serves as a sys-port when "folded up"
Conclusion: MFT/3 loses. With a Walko I need a sysport anyway, and with MFTC I need a small bench and additional sysport too (logical outcome is the extra sysport would be fitted with an MFT style worktop). MFTC wins by a hair because I need to store my systainers somehwere.

Stability (based on user review)
- MFT/3 is stable enough for normal power tool work. You can add extra stability at extra cost (as if this thing wasn't expensive enough to begin with)
- Walko is apparently less stable on non level surfaces than anticipated. My patio/terrace/outside workspace is not extremely level. Could be a problem.
- MFTC has adjustable legs and a lower shelf that makes it pretty stable, when filled with systainers even more so.
Conclusion: MFTC wins this round, MFT/3 comes in second bacause of extra cost involved.

Mobility
- MFT/3 can be hauled up to a second or third floor if I need to work there
- Walko can be hauled just as well
- MFTC is a bit bulkier, but apparently a lot lighter than anticipated. The wheels suggested by CJ'60 could make it possible, but keep in mind that houses in Europe and especially in The Netherlands make use of space very efficiently (read: are tiny when compared to houses in the USA). Stairs are often the "winding" type, which makes hauling even an empty MFTC up not an easy task I fear.
Conclusion: Not convinced about the MFTC at this point. MFT/3 and Walko are a tie.

What do you get for the money
- MFT/3 is a complete deal. I'd probably want to add some dogs, but it comes with a fence and guiderail. For extra stability I could add supports. The complete package is expensive, but could be worth the money.
- Walko does not give you as big a workspace as an MFT top and the separate workbenches can not be considered square to each other. This is a downside when wanting to do larger square cuts with dogs. Does not come with a fence or rail. Not cheap either!
- MFTC is really only a set of plans, you need to build it yourself. If you don't own a semi-decent worktop yet this is a challenge.
Conclusion:  After good deliberation the Walko is not a replacement for an MFT top workbench.

And then there was the post of rjwz28. That is actually a pretty decent worktop, and I already own a set of sawhorses. The sawhorses are a bit crappy but this solution could work, at least for the time being. The way I look at things now this will be the route to go:
1. Buy MFTC plans (this won't break the bank in any case)
2. Make (or have CNC'd) an MFT worktop and use it on sawhorses for the time being. Build the worktop into a modified MFTC extension table. The MFT style worktop will make the table a bit heavier than a normal extension table, but with some additional changes (legs) it could also double as a stand alone bench for the higher floors.
3. Build the rest of the MFTC

If you think I overlookad anything please don't hesitate to let me know, any and all feedback is very welcome!

Cheers,  Alex.

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Alex

I like the way you have summed up the various options - have you done military service?

Given your solution you will need some Parf Dogs - I think.

Peter

 

[dutchie]

And then there was the post of rjwz28. That is actually a pretty decent worktop, and I already own a set of sawhorses. The sawhorses are a bit crappy but this solution could work, at least for the time being. The way I look at things now this will be the route to go:
1. Buy MFTC plans (this won't break the bank in any case)
2. Make (or have CNC'd) an MFT worktop and use it on sawhorses for the time being. Build the worktop into a modified MFTC extension table. The MFT style worktop will make the table a bit heavier than a normal extension table, but with some additional changes (legs) it could also double as a stand alone bench for the higher floors.
3. Build the rest of the MFTC

You could also buy a MFT (800/1080/3/Kapex) replacement top and build something around it to fix to your sawhorses. Perhaps get some 80/20 profiles around it. Couple of dogs and you are good to go. I guess that would be the cheapest option.