Milwaukee and other drills, latest and greatest

[DeformedTree]

yeah, it looks neat, and well "obvious".  I hadn't realized it didn't just have an air port on it. I thought you just go back and forth to a compressor and top it off.  Figuring the big thing was making a lightweight tank.  But yeah, to get much energy, it will need to be very high pressure.  Not crazy about a really high pressure tank around my like that with it getting tossed around.

I would hope if it needs a special pressure boost, it would be an inline deal, and air pump powered by normal compressor air, which runs just a simple compressor to boost high pressure, so it's not a whole other compressor involved.

In many ways its the "air powered car", yes, you can make one, it's just you can't pack a usable amount of energy in one, unless going a mile or 2 is all you want from it.

 

[AlexThePalex]

My error. 2551-20 SURGE hydraulic driver with M12 batteries.

I would like to avoid mixing brands and have a lot of different batteries, but not sure Festool has a product quite like this at this time.

No, they don't have anything like this. Milwaukee has already made hundreds of impact drivers, Festool's on its second. The first one, the Ti15, was obviously not a big succes, and the second, the TiD18, is a very plain, noisy one.

I have the Ti15 for just over half a year now, and while it performs fine I'm getting really bugged by the noise.

 

[FestitaMakool]

My error. 2551-20 SURGE hydraulic driver with M12 batteries.

I would like to avoid mixing brands and have a lot of different batteries, but not sure Festool has a product quite like this at this time.

No, they don't have anything like this. Milwaukee has already made hundreds of impact drivers, Festool's on its second. The first one, the Ti15, was obviously not a big succes, and the second, the TiD18, is a very plain, noisy one.

I have the Ti15 for just over half a year now, and while it performs fine I'm getting really bugged by the noise.

Speak of it.. Yesterday I did a marathon job removing my entire front door frame and surroundings, to do concrete mud and brick job under the door sill. This meant bringing out the impact to unscrew all previous temporary screwed together door, frame and surrounds, then after a few hours it was getting late and I could once more re-mount everything. The sound of the impact after using recipro saw, multitool and mixer meant pulling out my regular drill to remount as I was tired of noise and vibrations to may hands and ears, so was presumably my neighbours [wink]. The near whisper sound and speed control in 1. gear was noticeably nicer for my ears, so was the pleasing control of setting screws with the torque compensated speed control of my Makita drills. Not to forget, after using the other vibrating tools, having my hands “rest” from vibrations was a welcome too.
Impacts saves your wrist, but beware of noice and vibrations; gloves and hearing protection advised!

For best the best brands I have encountered regarding trigger sensitivity and electronics to control torque and speed, I would say that Panasonic, Festool and Makita have long been the best. Festool is in its own league, meaning that many electricians and fitters use them. Later I’ve learned that Makita is also coming a preferred brand amongst these. Makita sucks at marketing - but gains terrain through professionals due to pricing, quality and “bang for your buck”. But as most brands, don’t shop for the cheapest models, there’s lesser built in regarding electronics and wear points. Still ok for home use. But for hobbyists and professionals, a step up always pays.

A good electronics “test” is to grab the chuck with your spare hand whilst holding the trigger at the same 1st. gear (SLOW - low moderate!) speed and trigger position. Try brake the chuck with your spare hand and the more force you are squeezing the chuck, the more the electronics should compensate to maintain momentum - if you bring the chuck to a holt, or near holt, there’s probably none or certainly lesser speed/torque compensated control. - Remember: you shall not move the trigger in any direction during the test. Good luck to you with older drills (even Festool’s old C9,6/12/15)

 

[AlexThePalex]

A good electronics “test” is to grab the chuck with your spare hand whilst holding the trigger at the same 1st. gear (SLOW - low moderate!) speed and trigger position. Try brake the chuck with your spare hand and the more force you are squeezing the chuck, the more the electronics should compensate to maintain momentum - if you bring the chuck to a holt, or near holt, there’s probably none or certainly lesser speed/torque compensated control. - Remember: you shall not move the trigger in any direction during the test. Good luck to you with older drills (even Festool’s old C9,6/12/15)

What is the whole point of this test? It doesn't sound like a healthy thing to do.

 

[FestitaMakool]

A good electronics “test” is to grab the chuck with your spare hand whilst holding the trigger at the same 1st. gear (SLOW - low moderate!) speed and trigger position. Try brake the chuck with your spare hand and the more force you are squeezing the chuck, the more the electronics should compensate to maintain momentum - if you bring the chuck to a holt, or near holt, there’s probably none or certainly lesser speed/torque compensated control. - Remember: you shall not move the trigger in any direction during the test. Good luck to you with older drills (even Festool’s old C9,6/12/15)

What is the whole point of this test? It doesn't sound like a healthy thing to do.

You’re not meant to do anything that may harm you. Suppose you have control over the arm and finger that runs the trigger. I do not on corded hammer or percussion drills, but every battery powered drill I’m looking at buying - I’ll do this check. Gripping on smooth surface, not the old type gear/wrench type of chucks. Drills that fails and have a nervous trigger I’ll pass on immediately. Not buying.
Those who have a later C15/18 or T15/18 and a CXS/TXS can note the difference in screw control. It’s the trigger sensitivity that makes the small 10.8V Festool, not the electronics.
Even my 2008 Makita has this control, combined with a really smooth and low end torque 4 pole motor.
Those looking for Makita can look out for this symbol: (Electronically controlled variable speed control)
[attachimg=1]

And for what it is worth, using any of my drills that has these features, I have almost never cam out on the screw heads (the annoying Philips head is the one if any..) And Ive never used the pump action trigger technique I’ve seen so many use.

 

[AlexThePalex]

You’re not meant to do anything that may harm you.

I meant harming the drill. So I take it the test is meant to see how sensitive the trigger is?

And for what it is worth, using any of my drills that has these features, I have almost never cam out on the screw heads (the annoying Philips head is the one if any..)

I cam out screws all the time, thank god torx is slowly becomming the standard. Still leaves us with houses full of old screws, most annoyingly the rusty or painted shut slotted ones.

And I’ve never used the pump action trigger technique I’ve seen so many use.

What's that?

 

[Cheese]

yeah, it looks neat, and well "obvious".  I hadn't realized it didn't just have an air port on it. I thought you just go back and forth to a compressor and top it off.  Figuring the big thing was making a lightweight tank.  But yeah, to get much energy, it will need to be very high pressure. 

I would hope if it needs a special pressure boost, it would be an inline deal, and air pump powered by normal compressor air, which runs just a simple compressor to boost high pressure, so it's not a whole other compressor involved.

In many ways its the "air powered car", yes, you can make one, it's just you can't pack a usable amount of energy in one, unless going a mile or 2 is all you want from it.

High pressure indeed...4500 PSI. They also recommend not letting it get too low or it will produce a "soft shot",  so topping off when it reaches 800 PSI.

Sorry, an "in-line pressure booster" hooked up to a conventional compressor is not an option. You need a dedicated high pressure compressor. Probably something used for pressurizing SCUBA tanks or they also offer their own version which weighs 104#.

[attachimg=1]

It fires 34º D-head nails but there are only 3 they recommend; Ecko, Delfast & Senco.

A particularly unnerving statement in the FAQ section was;

Q...My AIRBOW® FRAMER fired 2 nails at once:
A...This may relate to the collated nails you are using. The top or bottom edge of collation paper may be rough. Try a different brand collated nail.

If you are already using the Senco brand and they fail to fire, you now only have 2 other brand choices, Ecko & Delfast neither of which I'm familiar with.  [eek]

 

[Michael Kellough]

You’re not meant to do anything that may harm you.

I meant harming the drill. So I take it the test is meant to see how sensitive the trigger is?

And for what it is worth, using any of my drills that has these features, I have almost never cam out on the screw heads (the annoying Philips head is the one if any..)

I cam out screws all the time, thank god torx is slowly becomming the standard. Still leaves us with houses full of old screws, most annoyingly the rusty or painted shut slotted ones.

And I’ve never used the pump action trigger technique I’ve seen so many use.

What's that?

Have you had to remove a paint filled Torx screw yet? I’m guessing you might wish it were slotted.

 

[DeformedTree]

High pressure indeed...4500 PSI. They also recommend not letting it get too low or it will produce a "soft shot",  so topping off when it reaches 800 PSI.

Sorry, an "in-line pressure booster" hooked up to a conventional compressor is not an option. You need a dedicated high pressure compressor. Probably something used for pressurizing SCUBA tanks or they also offer their own version which weighs 104#.

Hah, yeah, hard pass there.  No value at all at that point, but also 4500 psi air tank and fittings around my hands and face, no thanks.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Have you had to remove a paint filled Torx screw yet? I’m guessing you might wish it were slotted.

Not an old, rusty one that has been painted over 5 times or more. But new ones with only 2 layers of paint, yes. That was not a big deal.

Oh, and I will NEVER wish a screw was slotted. My 80 year old house is filled with them and everytime I have to remove one I curse them all. I can't count the number of times the slot was stripped and I had to take out the dremel to cut a new slot.

 

[DeformedTree]

Have you had to remove a paint filled Torx screw yet? I’m guessing you might wish it were slotted.

Not an old, rusty one that has been painted over 5 times or more. But new ones with only 2 layers of paint, yes. That was not a big deal.

Oh, and I will NEVER wish a screw was slotted. My 80 year old house is filled with them and everytime I have to remove one I curse them all. I can't count the number of times the slot was stripped and I had to take out the dremel to cut a new slot.

Spot on.  Even if you get the paint out of the slot, it will still suck to get out.  A torx gives you something you can jam almost anything in, in a pinch.

 

[jaguar36]

Worse case, its easy enough to make a torx into a slotted head if you really need to.

 

[FestitaMakool]

You’re not meant to do anything that may harm you.

I meant harming the drill. So I take it the test is meant to see how sensitive the trigger is?
- No, point is to see whether the electronics read increasing resistance and applying more power to the motor, and simultaneously keeping approximately the same revolution as the resistance increases. (Simulating slow controlled screw insertion)

And for what it is worth, using any of my drills that has these features, I have almost never cam out on the screw heads (the annoying Philips head is the one if any..)

I cam out screws all the time, thank god torx is slowly becomming the standard. Still leaves us with houses full of old screws, most annoyingly the rusty or painted shut slotted ones.
- Slotted are great looking, annoying to find the exact size driver. The only screw that let you use the correct size slotted driver to knock out old layers of paint sideways. But looks and the ability to knock out paint is it.

And I’ve never used the pump action trigger technique I’ve seen so many use.

What's that?
- Pumping the trigger is, well.. sort of compensating for lack of trigger sensitivity and or electronics to control toque and revolutions. Preventing cam out and setting screw head to the surface. It’s just pumping the trigger in and out rapidly when close to setting screw head into the surface. That way the motor never reach real speed or torque. It’s a bit like left foot braking, while keeping throttle.

 

[jaguar36]

- No, point is to see whether the electronics read increasing resistance and applying more power to the motor, and simultaneously keeping approximately the same revolution as the resistance increases. (Simulating slow controlled screw insertion)

Thats not how I want my driver to work.  I want it to put out a constant level of torque per amount of trigger pressure, not a constant speed.

 

[AlexThePalex]

- Slotted are great looking, annoying to find the exact size driver. The only screw that let you use the correct size slotted driver to knock out old layers of paint sideways. But looks and the ability to knock out paint is it.

Yeah, I like the look of slotted screws too, when I make something that has to look good I like to use slotted screws, prefereably brass, chrome or stainless steel. Pozidrive screws look ugly. Torx look better, but slotted look best.

I always have an awl at hand, they clean any type of screw from paint.

- Pumping the trigger is, well.. sort of compensating for lack of trigger sensitivity and or electronics to control toque and revolutions. Preventing cam out and setting screw head to the surface. It’s just pumping the trigger in and out rapidly when close to setting screw head into the surface. That way the motor never reach real speed or torque. It’s a bit like left foot braking, while keeping throttle.

I see. I do that all the time.  [big grin]

 

[rst]

Jogging the trigger also helps prevent shearing screw heads off. 

 

[FestitaMakool]

- No, point is to see whether the electronics read increasing resistance and applying more power to the motor, and simultaneously keeping approximately the same revolution as the resistance increases. (Simulating slow controlled screw insertion)

Thats not how I want my driver to work.  I want it to put out a constant level of torque per amount of trigger pressure, not a constant speed.

Well, that’s what happening - speed and torque in conjunction - mimicking manually driving in a screw by hand. The deeper you go, the more torque you must apply, and usually we, as a human motor do have a “set” speed we can handle a screwdriver, at least not too fast..  [big grin]
Anyone owning a newer Festool driver experience this, as Festool is prime at these factors.

 

[FestitaMakool]

- Slotted are great looking, annoying to find the exact size driver. The only screw that let you use the correct size slotted driver to knock out old layers of paint sideways. But looks and the ability to knock out paint is it.

Yeah, I like the look of slotted screws too, when I make something that has to look good I like to use slotted screws, prefereably brass, chrome or stainless steel. Pozidrive screws look ugly. Torx look better, but slotted look best.

I always have an awl at hand, they clean any type of screw from paint.

- Pumping the trigger is, well.. sort of compensating for lack of trigger sensitivity and or electronics to control toque and revolutions. Preventing cam out and setting screw head to the surface. It’s just pumping the trigger in and out rapidly when close to setting screw head into the surface. That way the motor never reach real speed or torque. It’s a bit like left foot braking, while keeping throttle.

I see. I do that all the time.  [big grin]

That’ll be left foot braking!?!  [wink]

The slotted do look good, me too do brass, chrome or SS whenever looks is important.
It buggers me that I have to discard my old front doors hinges and screws. It’s well over 35 yrs, with thick slotted brass screws and hinges, all as good as new after 35-40 years. 24 screws in total. If the teak frame and door is scrapped it’ll be reclaimed and certainly the hinges and screws [big grin]

 

[DeformedTree]

You guys are making me think this isn't an image of screw heads, but maybe more of a pinup poster for the garage wall the spouse doesn't notice.

I kinda dig pentalobular.

 

[AlexThePalex]

That’ll be left foot braking!?!  [wink]

I do that all the time too.  [big grin]

You guys are making me think this isn't an image of screw heads, but maybe more of a pinup poster for the garage wall the spouse doesn't notice.

Well, if you want to make something nice, every detail counts.