Mini-review of my new Walko 3 Bench

[jvsteenb]

As much as I like the technical benefits of Epoxies and Polyurethanes, I have a strong preference for natural materials.
Natural oils have succesfully preserved wood for a very long time. Bamboo in itself is a very nice sustainable resource, so are natural oils like flaxseed and tung oil.
Whenever in the future I may own a Walko, I doubt I'll leave it out in the rain, but that would primarily be to preserve the frame, rather then the tops.
I'd give it a coat of natural oil, preferrably high quality flaxseedoil, cold pressed and boiled, perhaps with a bit of Tung-oil added, and apply it with a bit of help from a hairdryer or paintstripper on low ( it gets water-thin at about 50 C and that seriously boosts the penetration, without any solvent or ill effects ).
You'll be surprised how weatherproof a natural oil can be. A GOOD coat of natural oil ( a penetrating product by nature ) will preserve it, without totally sealing it. Moisture may pass to slowly seek an equilibrium, but water will shed off.

I have no doubt however, that an epoxy will work flawlessly on a bare sheet of bamboo plywood. Question is: it's pre-oiled - what's going to happen on the epoxy-oil interface ? You won't get alll the oil out - that's a given...

Regards,

Job

 

[score0matic]

As far as I know, the Walko bamboo tops are just oiled. If so, you could certainly use some tung oil or linseed oil to touch up those areas. Oil would make the bamboo resistant to moisture, but not waterproof!
To be honest, if it would be me and I would be using that table outside a lot, I would sand off the oil finish and put something more durable on.

Cheers,
Andreas

The bamboo tops are extremely weather resistant.  I left one top outside for the winter of 08-09 (rain, snow, ice freeze-thaw)  to see how it weathered, This is not advised but i did it any way because it was a prototype.  Looked at the tables this morning  they are stored in my work trailer.  The one that has been left out has no damage but is slightly lighter in color where the sun hit it.

 

[rnt80]

Well, I'm at the other end of the spectrum.  I haven't left my tops outside and both of them developed really bad splits/cracks.  Luckily, Timmy C is taking care of me and there are two new tops on the way.  I live in AZ where there is 0% humidity most of the year so it's not that far stretched to see this happen but it was something that I didn't even take into consideration.

 

[PaulMarcel]

That was a bit of my concern, too, about the bamboo tops.  The Borg stopped selling bamboo flooring in the retail stores 2 years ago (though i have seen special purchases appear, but not regular stock); I asked someone about it and they said the majority of the installations would check and crack so they were losing their shirt on re-installations.  The Great Indoors in Chandler also has bamboo flooring on display, but when I asked about it, the department manager said, "well, if you want it, I have to sell it to you but I think you really need to think about wanting it here in AZ".  After more coaxing, she said the flooring essentially turns into chopsticks after 6-12 months.

It seems that bamboo isn't made for AZ.  The few previously-elegant bamboo items I brought back from Japan all have significant check or cracks now.

I want the Walko-4, once the IOU paychecks become real, but definitely plan on doing the drum sander + CPES trick on them.  Anything that lets moisture 'balance' out here is doomed to failure.

 

[PaulMarcel]

As much as I like the technical benefits of Epoxies and Polyurethanes, I have a strong preference for natural materials.
Natural oils have succesfully preserved wood for a very long time. Bamboo in itself is a very nice sustainable resource, so are natural oils like flaxseed and tung oil.
Whenever in the future I may own a Walko, I doubt I'll leave it out in the rain, but that would primarily be to preserve the frame, rather then the tops.
I'd give it a coat of natural oil, preferrably high quality flaxseedoil, cold pressed and boiled, perhaps with a bit of Tung-oil added, and apply it with a bit of help from a hairdryer or paintstripper on low ( it gets water-thin at about 50 C and that seriously boosts the penetration, without any solvent or ill effects ).
You'll be surprised how weatherproof a natural oil can be. A GOOD coat of natural oil ( a penetrating product by nature ) will preserve it, without totally sealing it. Moisture may pass to slowly seek an equilibrium, but water will shed off.

I have no doubt however, that an epoxy will work flawlessly on a bare sheet of bamboo plywood. Question is: it's pre-oiled - what's going to happen on the epoxy-oil interface ? You won't get alll the oil out - that's a given...

Regards,
Job

There are a lot of good ideas in there, Job... thanks!

While off-topic, I try to accomplish the same penetration you mention here by thinning Seal-A-Cell very heavily so it flows deeper then follow up with a second coat equally thinned.  Since I'm in bone-dry Arizona, I usually can do the second one within 30 minutes since I really don't want the first coat completely sealing things off.  It definitely makes a difference.  I'll try the hairdryer trick next time I use a pure oil.

For me, I'd be removing the finish from the Walko tables via the drum sander.  I'm not so sure I'd want to put it through the planer since it splinters easily (opinions?!)  Now, if I ran both sides through enough times, I wouldn't have to chamfer the holes for the Festool clamps

 

[Frank Pellow]

Thanks for the responses to my question about applying finish to the bamboo.  After a lot of thought and more research, I decided against stripping the existing finish off the bench and applying  CPES.  Thank goodness Ontario doesn't (yet) have Arizona's dryness problem.

What I did was apply Tung Oil (polymerized) to the rounded over edges as well as within the holes thenselves.  The interior surfaces of the holes are unfinished on the bench as shipped, so this would proably be a good thing to do even if one has not rounded over the holes on the bottom of the bench

[attachimg=#1]

In the picture I am applying a coat of tung oil sealer with a brush in order to get into the holes.  I wiped the off oil that slopped onto the table immediately and left the oil in the holes for a day.  Then, I applied two coats of tung oil with a day between the applications.

 

[jvsteenb]

Frank,
Way to go ! [thumbs up] for choosing a natural sustainable finish.
Your Walko and your grandchildren will love you for it....
Mind the rags - they may self-combust if left alone untended and without adequate surface area to loose the heat from polymerisation.
But you probably already knew that.... [embarassed]
Anyway: good choice.  It's easily maintained, and I much prefer the tactile feedback of a good worksurface oil finish (silky smoooth, but neither slippery or tacky) over anything synthetic.
I may be somewhat biased though.... [wink]

Regards,

Job

 

[rnt80]

I got my new tops from Timmy C.  I haven't taken them out of the box yet and I'm storing them inside until I decide what I'm going to use to coat them.  I put one of the old tops through the drum sander this week to level it.  I'd love to use a natural finish on it but I'm really concerned about it's long term ability to maintain the integrity of the tops.  The splits that developed in my two old tops were pretty significant.  Would CPES or tung oil or flaxseed oil prevent similar splits from developing in the new tops?

 

[PaulMarcel]

Guess I don't know the exact answer.  The reason I'd have sealed it with CPES on arrival is because I already know bamboo flooring (with bazillions of coats of urethane) split and check routinely out here.  Urethane is a good wear layer, but it does still allow for moisture to transfer, albeit slowly (which is why flooring seems to go through check the most end-March/April timeframe... late in the dry season, but that's cuz it took that long to lose enough moisture and check during shrinkage against a 'stable' ply engineered backing).

CPES effectively fills where moisture can go, which is why 2 coats makes your product waterproof ('2' being because you might miss a spot with just 1; the recommendation for waterproofing is soaking it).  It isn't rigid like epoxy; case in point, I drenched some cork in it and it was barely less flimsy than the untreated piece.  So, this means your table will expand and contract due to temperature, although it will no longer accept moisture.  This ability to expand/contract with temperature while blocking access to moisture and water is why it is used to stabilize concrete in northern climates.  Since the water can't go into the porous concrete, it can't crack the concrete from the inside during freeze/thaw cycles.

So, that explains the moisture and waterproofing side.  Guess what is left to find out is if it stops a product from losing captured moisture. I'm guessing it does.

Certainly you sealing the exposed endgrain in the holes is necessary (perhaps for everybody).  In my case, I'll soak the tabletops after sanding so it penetrates further so I don't have to worry about sacrificial cuts exposing a vector for moisture loss.

 

[Frank Pellow]

Well, I left one of my two table tops out in the rain and weather for a week and the result is not good.  [sad]

The top surface was fine, but the glue holding layers together did not stand up.

Here is a photo:

[attachimg=#1]

I expect that I can repair the damage, but I am very dissapointed that I can't work with the bench in the rain.

 

[PaulMarcel]

I just got my Walko-4 last Friday.  I chamfered the underside of the holes like you suggested to be able to use Festool clamps on it (thanks!) then waterproofed it with 2 coats of CPES like I described earlier.  Since CPES can go on unevenly (you puddle it up to let it soak), I hit it with P400 for a quick pass and it is glass smooth.  To even the sheen, and cuz I had the rag in my hand an hour later anyway, I gave it a wipe with Seal-A-Cell .  Made it look better, though it's looks aren't the reason for the bench.

So, as it stands the table tops are considered waterproof if I applied it everywhere (might have missed a few spots inside the holes; a wet finishing rag the next time I finish can be used to touch that up).  Yes, the top is sacrificial so after running a bunch of kerf cuts through it, I'll have to seal it again, but that's again just taking a rag after finishing something else and giving it a wipe.

For me, it isn't waterproofing I need.  I need to keep the moisture in the table top.  Two other people here in Phoenix (that I know of) have purchased this table and, once the really ridiculously dry season started, the table delamated.  It's made of bamboo; most flooring companies out here don't sell bamboo flooring or won't guarantee it.

Perhaps your table top will dry nicely and get closer to flat; close enough for a heap of poly glue (or epoxy) and two cauls to get them flat.

 

[Frank Pellow]

...
Perhaps your table top will dry nicely and get closer to flat; close enough for a heap of poly glue (or epoxy) and two cauls to get them flat.

Yes, I guess that I will try that next.    ???

 

[Kodi Crescent]

I see that Walko's don't seem to be readily available anymore, at least where I am looking.  It seems that Timmy C no longer has them on his website.  Where would you get one nowadays?

 

[tbellemare]

Tim was the importer.

Tom

 

[PaulMarcel]

Yes, that's a bit of a mess.

He took them off of FestoolJunkie.com and moved them to the Lincoln site.  Off the main page, I can't find a link to it; I found the link because I googled both sites and it found it for me.  You can definitely order one!  I ordered mine on a Friday and got it the next Friday.  Get it with the table struts; they are really useful if you work with ply often (as I am on this current project).

Here's the link to the Walko page on the Lincoln site: http://www.lhtcinc.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/172/walko-workbench-systems/

If you want to order one, call the Lincoln sales line to place the order.

A lot of people here and on talkFestool raved about the Walko.  I haven't put it through a lot yet, but have some on-site work next week where I expect to use almost all of its crazy configurations (except the one to cut full sheets... fully extended and upside down).

 

[Kodi Crescent]

Thanks!

 

[Warrior]

Well, I left one of my two table tops out in the rain and weather for a week and the result is not good.  [sad]

The top surface was fine, but the glue holding layers together did not stand up.

Here is a photo:

[attachimg=#1]

I expect that I can repair the damage, but I am very dissapointed that I can't work with the bench in the rain.

For real? You are dissapointed that you can't leave the bench outside? You expected the tops to be ok in the rain and now you are dissapointed. I dont get it? What did you think would happen?

 

[Sparktrician]

I see that Walko's don't seem to be readily available anymore, at least where I am looking.  It seems that Timmy C no longer has them on his website.  Where would you get one nowadays?

From Walko's site in the Netherlands:

Importer for the USA wanted

08 September 2010
We are looking for a new partner in the USA to represent our unique products.

For more information mail to: info@walko.nl or call +31 (0) 35 65 50 191

Google on "walko table" to find out more about the WALKO.

 

[jmbfestool]

Well, I left one of my two table tops out in the rain and weather for a week and the result is not good.  [sad]

The top surface was fine, but the glue holding layers together did not stand up.

Here is a photo:

[attachimg=#1]

I expect that I can repair the damage, but I am very dissapointed that I can't work with the bench in the rain.

For real? You are dissapointed that you can't leave the bench outside? You expected the tops to be ok in the rain and now you are dissapointed. I dont get it? What did you think would happen?

I was thinking the same thing.  No way would of thought that the tops would of been fine in the rain for a week.

All the time you have spent on sealing the wood could of been spent on making your own out of different material something like an Acrylic top or something.  Not sure what plastic is best but I know you can get 20-22 mm thick plastic/Acrylic  or something like that and you know that will last in the rain no problem and you dont have to worry about sealing it.   

Im sure some one knows on here what material I am on about.  Im on about a plastic looking type material which is durable and hard but if dropped only dents it will not crack or chip.

JMB

 

[tbellemare]

UHMW would be a very durable top but it's quite expensive. HDPE costs about half as much and would work fine.

Tom