Mirka Ceros or RO150 or RAS for removing old house paint?....

[goforbroke442nd]

As a hobbyest, my tools need to serve multipurposes.  One big project on my list is painting a few exterior walls of my house.  These sun facing walls are peeling.  Previous owners only added matching layers over the already deterioring paint.  I was trying to figure out how effective a mirka ceros or RO150 would be for stripping old exterior paint.  Is it more of the grit that makes a different?  I will be scraping first and using tarps, and hooking the sander up to a CT26 and wearing a respirator to protect from any possible lead exposure.  The most recent paint job about 8 years ago was done using latex, but I dont' know about older paint, so attempting to be better safe than sorry...

My house is a one story and not very large

 

[hhh]

I have each and every sander you mention...

If stripping paint is your goal, then RAS is the tool.  But it's a one-trick pony, so if you can justify the tool for this one job, then go for it...  Don't let folks tell you that the RO 125/150 have the same rotary capability of the RAS -- not even in the same ballpark...

If you want a multi-purpose, then the RO 125/150 is a good choice...  The 150 may be a bit of a beast using vertically day-in-day-out.

The Ceros is an awesome finish sander... Way beyond what FT is currently offering.  But is't pricey and not well suited to stripping.

 

[mikeneron]

[quote author=hhh]The Ceros is an awesome finish sander... Way beyond what FT is currently offering.  But is't pricey and not well suited to stripping.
[/quote]

I think if you slap on some Abranet HD, then it is pretty good at removing layers of old paint.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I was sanding paint with a 6" Ceros with Abranet yesterday.
This was between coats sanding so there wasn't a lot of paint dust as there would be with paint stripping but the abrasive did not load up with paint where there was a dust extraction port in the back-up pad. It did corn in the center where there isn't much extraction.

Seems like the best combination would be Abranet HD on the Festool RO.

 

[hhh]

==> I think if you slap on some Abranet HD, then it is pretty good at removing layers of old paint.

don't know -- i've done some stripping with A-HD on a small scale.  A 1500sq ft house would consume quite a bit of A-HD.  A box of 50 x FT 115 x 80grit is running $20 at the moment...  Don't get me wrong, i love the mirka system, but i would have to give it another go on some thick oil paint to be convinced it's the best solution on that scale.

 

[cgmojoco]

Just curious---not intending to hijack thread---and as always in tradition Christopher fashion, I'm going to go way out on tangent to potentially complicate your though process on your final decision.

What do folks think about using chems (strippers) and a scraper to do the initial remove prior to even thinking about sanding?

I see lots of folks saying they want to use sanders to remove stuff...but no mention of first using chem.

If that has lead in it....it would help to get most off with stripper...even if you are using a HEPA certed extractor and Festool RO (RAS I'd never use with possibility of lead in paint).

I'm wondering if you would even need an agressive sander after stripping products---and it sure doesn't help on things that are already put together or things that have profiles.

In response to Ceros as a finish sander...if I remember correctly has to large of a stroke (5m?) for me to think about using it as a finish sander personally (I'm sure it works fine but I'm super duper picky a single swirl mark and I'm not happy).

Matter of fact, I don't like to do any finish sanding with a power sander (instead I try to use Mirka vac hand block).

If I could have everything my way, use a scraping card and or goosneck (and this is aside of removing finish, just working with raw wood), followed by 220 hand sand to rough the surface back up uniformly to more readily accept finishes, and then using the same hand vac block sand for anything between coats of whatever I'm using with 320 or 400 grit (sometimes even higher if I'm working on something really amazing that requires a finer grit like removing some layers of dye).

That said, I do have an RO150 and RO90 that I use for those jobs where the final finish isn't as important or if the project is huge (mostly if I'm using ply for outward facing finish project that I might just stain and Poly finish...like garage cabinets).

RO150 is great sander...but using scraper card and/or goosneck saves paper!...and in some cases it even saves time.  Using a scraper, I don't have to bother with anything 80-180 grit---and I scrape once as opposed to sanding through the grits.

Love using RO150 and RO90 for polishing, large surfaces ,or for knocking things down a little prior to scraping.

GREAT sanders...Festool needs to get back to top of game with a separate transformer or whatever it is so they can lighten their sanders like Mirka and be used more readily vertical and/or overhead---and they need to be brushless (if that is possible with the RO tech).

Hopefully they would be quiter too after that (thought the RO90 isn't really that noisy, the RO150 is a screamer).

I have heard there was some issue with Ceros spitting dust (I think I was watching a video and they guy was like I don't know why it spits dust out on occasion)---would demo it just in case to confirm----assuming Festool dust collection is better because it blows air back onto the product to push dust out of grain and back into vac suction---don't think Mirka does that...

Christopher

 

[cgmojoco]

Oh and if there was some way to change the sanding stroke (not just Rotary swtich) from 1.5 to 8 that would be....awesome on a sander.

Christopher

 

[hhh]

==> hat do folks think about using chems (strippers) and a scraper to do the initial remove prior to even thinking about sanding?

done it loads of times on small stuff... Basically furniture restores...

But on something like a house...

 

[rustynail]

I have the Ceros sander and love mine. Its light and very powerfull, I would buy it again.

 

[peter halle]

A few years ago I did a thread here about stripping exterior paint on some trellises.  Originally I tried my trusty Rotex 150 with 24 grit.  Not what I expected or desired.  I ordered the RAS along with 24, and 36 grit paper.  No comparison.  I kept the RAS and have used it time and time again for stripping paint and frankly for doing rough sanding prior to getting down to work with the ROTEX and then the ETS-150. 

The RAS is reasonably priced in my mind and if you want to get the job done - get one.  You will find a use for it later.  If not, you will be able to resell and recoup.

Peter

 

[hhh]

==> Originally I tried my trusty Rotex 150 with 24 grit. 

that must have been nasty...  Isn't hindsight wonderful... Now you can just say, "Wrong tool for the job"...

==> If not, you will be able to resell and recoup.

good point.  FT tools hold their value...

 

[peter halle]

You also have the wonderful 30 day trial period.  Yes you will be out the paper, but you would have used it anyway.  If you go the RAS route - which as a user not a moderator I would highly recommend, order the hard pad for it also.  It also is not returnable, but honestly once you use the RAS and get used to rotating the dust shroud, you won't be selling it or returning anyway.

At JLC this year Festool had demos of sanders and had a mock up of a section of a house and an exterior deck.  As an illegal helper  [scared] I showed an attendee how the RAS removed the solid latex stain from the deck versus the ROTEX.  BAM!

The RAS has many uses - people just need to get used to it's power and then control it - real easy with the variable speed and a little time.

My RAS is not for sale.

Peter

 

[waho6o9]

+1 for the RAS.  P24 Saphir paper and the paint will vanish quickly.

I used this on a pair of entrance doors from the 1950's that I disassembled
and was surprised how quickly the layers of paint vanished.

 

[hhh]

==> P24 Saphir paper and the paint will vanish quickly

not seeing his project, might want to be careful w/ 24...  if you aren't experienced with the tool, 24 may take more then the paint off....  i'd get the 24, but something less potentially scary to learn with.

 

[waho6o9]

http://festoolownersgroup.com/classifieds/festool-ras-115-for-sale-$175-plus-shipping/

Here ya go  goforbroke442nd, in case you missed it.

 

[greg mann]

One thing often overlooked about the RAS versus a random orbit: There is less vibration with the RAS. This is far more helpful on vertical surfaces. The OP did not specify the type of siding he needs to strip. That might have some impact on his decision but I would suspect it is clapboard siding in either redwood or cedar. I agree that 24 grit may be too aggressive with these softer underlying woods but 36 should certainly be controllable. As far as lead is concerned I am not sure which would be worse; bigger particles escaping from the RAS for x number of hours or smaller particles escaping for 3x hours with either ROS.

 

[leakyroof]

Having just stripped about 15 years of Thompson Water Seal from some outdoor Cedar 4x4 post, I can add a bit to this using the RAS 115e.  I used 24 Grit Saphir, with the Cedar, I could have, and probably should have used a higher grit.
VERY little loading of the waxy old sealant on my disc, but it's also not years of paint build-up either.
Get the RAS, use a LIGHT touch to prevent excessive abrading of the wood surface and overheating of the sanders pad[a common wear point from heavy users, so we're told]
The RAS IS easy to control like Peter H. states, it just fools you into a bit of lax behavior since it works so fast, particularly on softwoods once the finish you are trying to remove is at its final layer.
  The Rotex sanders can't really compete with it for this task, after all, that's what its primary design feature is all about-Fast, efficient stripping of finishes.
If the paint has lead in it, as I understand it,  the homeowner is exempt from the new EPA regs on lead contaiment from old paint if you're doing the work yourself. If you hire someone, they have to follow the new law and regulation on this. I'm sure Scott B. and others can verify this. If I'm wrong, I apologize in advance, the two to three times I've tried reading the  regs on this, were a bit confusing when they first came out.  [blink] [embarassed]

 

[Scott B.]

As a hobbyest, my tools need to serve multipurposes.  One big project on my list is painting a few exterior walls of my house.  These sun facing walls are peeling.  Previous owners only added matching layers over the already deterioring paint.  I was trying to figure out how effective a mirka ceros or RO150 would be for stripping old exterior paint.  Is it more of the grit that makes a different?   I will be scraping first and using tarps, and hooking the sander up to a CT26 and wearing a respirator to protect from any possible lead exposure.  The most recent paint job about 8 years ago was done using latex, but I dont' know about older paint, so attempting to be better safe than sorry...

My house is a one story and not very large

 

[Scott B.]

I would caution anyone here from taking a RAS up a ladder to blast out some soffet and frieze. Danger Danger. That little banjo will twist you right off your extension ladder.

 

[fshanno]

The answer is simple.  Use the walls to justify buying the sander you want the most.  The one you want just in general, stripping walls aside.  If it works out for the walls then fine.  If not then just do the walls with your grinder.  Either way you end up with a cool new sander.  How is this a bad plan?

That's how I got my Domino.  I showed my wife a Fine Woodworking video of making M&T joints for cabinet doors.  Table saw, band saw, hollow chisel mortiser, bench chisels.  Then I drug her to the store and let her plunge a mortise with the Domino.  That did it, she told me to get the Domino.  Did I show her a video of making doors with a $175 cope and stick bit set?  Multiple choice...  A)  No.    B) No.  C) No.  D) All of the above.