My box store orbital died. I have old hands. May I pick your brains about Festool?

[nockpoint]

Hello all, I'm in a bit of a lurch. My orbital just died and there are things that need completion. In times of change there is always opportunity, right? I'm 99% woodworking, but have also fixed a few car panels. I mention the car panels because only recently using high quality paper, blocking and feeling a panel for paint really increased my awareness of a surface beyond what I was doing in the past with wood. Some of my reasoning may seem stupid, feel free to stomp me. Which Festool would be right for me out of this expansive Festool designation scheme? I'm thinking it should be some variety of the ETS EC something something.

Here are my issues -

• the ancient DeWalt began brutally murdering my hands. Too many past injuries. The sander has to be low vibration. This is my main reason for considering the Festool.
• corded model.
• Has the industry has gone to 6" medium? I'm looking at that stack of quality 5" paper in my garage. Stay 5" or go 6"? (I could alternatively get a crap 5" sander and muddle through the rest of my supply.)
• One is a 3mm and the other a 5mm travel. If I only have one machine in the budget, which one is right?
• can I / how do I hook to Ridgid shop vac? I'm talking about the non duct tape way hahaha!

and the final question is what's the Festool model number of your suggestion?

I do greatly appreaciate anyone taking the time to answer.

 

[nclemmons]

I'd own the ETS-EC150/3 corded model. I like the larger size for better and faster sanding on larger panels. You should look at the hole pattern on your 5" to see if it matches the FT 125 sanders. They are an option but I personally standardized on 6" paper for the ETS and a Rotex 150.

I like the /3 mm as it does a better job on finish work. if you are doing automotive, you will appreciate a smaller radius on the oscillating.

If in time you need more 'muscle' the Rotex 150 is compatible with the same 6" paper and offers both finish and roughing modes for faster stock removal.

The Festool vacs are excellent. You can find hose adapters at WW stores, Amazon and other Home Depot.

Welcome to FOG!

neil

 

[SoonerFan]

Like you, I had lots of 125mm/5inch because I have had an RO125 for years. I wanted a finish sander so I went with /3mm. I purchased the EC125 because this sander can also accept the 150 pad which I also purchased. This allows me to use whichever size is best for the job and access all the abrasives I had for the RO125. Note if you buy the EC150, it does not accept the 125 pad.

You can purchase an adapter to connect a Festool sander to a Rigid shop vac. You can find these on Etsy and maybe at Rockler if you are in the U.S. Could also print one. Being able to turn down suction helps a bunch.

 

[onocoffee]

I came from Ryobi 5" and DeWalt 1/4 Sheet sanders and went straight to the ETS EC 150 ($609) with a CT MIDI I ($679) extractor. If you can go this route, that will serve you well. However, the cost of that entry can be considerable for a lot of people - especially when coming from big box store tools. The ETS EC comes in two orbits: 3mm and 5mm. 3mm is more what you're used to and 5mm is a bit more aggressive but still beautiful as a finish sander with the right techniques.

You'll also need to get 150mm abrasives but Festool does have a systainer kit ($150) filled with six different grits to make it easy, or just the Granat Set ($65) that has abrasives without the systainer.

If that combination is a bit steep, then a migration to the ETS 125 ($279) is a good choice. Much more pocket-friendly price point and the internal blower means you don't need an extrator. And the 125mm pad means you can use your current 5" abrasives - however, the holes probably won't match so extraction won't be as good (unless you're already using mesh abrasives - then you'll want to get the protector pad - $19 - for the sander). This gets you entry for under $300.

Now, if you do like the idea of 6" sanders, there are still a couple options that aren't as expensive as the ETS EC route. The ETS 150 ($439) is the evolution of the ETS 125 but in both 3mm and 5mm orbits. They're bigger physically than the ETS EC with brushed motors (EC means brushless) but also have internal blowers so the extractor isn't mandatory.

Then there is the newest option - the cordless ETSC2 in both 125mm ($565) and 150mm ($665) *prices include batteries and charger. These only come with 3.5mm orbits (kind of an in-between compromise) and are also capable of operating without an extractor.

These are probably the most natural progressions from big box store sanders. However, others did mention the Rotex and those may be something to consider - especially the RO150 ($699). It is both a random orbit sander with 5mm orbit, as well as a gear driven rotary sander that works wonders. Change the configuration and it can even be a polisher for automotive work. However, the trade off as an ROS is the ergonomics. It's big, powerful and can get squirrely while operating and you do need an extractor while using it.

 

[Cheese]

Just purchase the ETS EC 125 and you will be able to use 125mm or 150mm discs if you change the pads.

Forget the Rigid...it's a dinosaur from a different millennium when using Festool sanders. If you insist on using the Rigid, then just purchase that Ryobi sander for $25 and consider yourself to be a frugal woodworker.

 

[luvmytoolz]

If you insist on using the Rigid, then just purchase that Ryobi sander for $25 and consider yourself to be a frugal woodworker.

Noooooo!

Life's too short for rubbish tools!

 

[Allano]

No matter which vac you use, you should consider a Festool hose. It is such a joy working with. It is flexible, runs smoth over your workpiece because of the fabric, and has swivels at both ends so the twist in the hose never tries to control the motion of your sander.

The 32/27 mm version is probably what you want for the sander. It has the small end connector, which fits directly on the dust port of Festool sanders (at least on my ETS 150). On Festool tools with larger dust ports than the sanders, the hose end fits inside those dust ports (I am told).

There is also a 36 mm version with a larger end connector, but that one will not fit the sander without an adapter. It is also slightly less flexible, and I think the air speed will get so low when used with a sander, that you will get dust deposits in the hose. On the other hand, this hose fits directly on a lot of other tool brands without an adapter. I use it on Bosch, Makita and Metabo tools. It also fits on the outside of the larger Festool dust ports (I am told).

 

[woodferret]

If you're going to use a Festool sander, especially ETS EC 150/5, then you're definitely going to need at least a bleed valve on your hose. Otherwise it won't behave properly as there'd be too much suction.

 

[Steve1]

Definitely I would go with the 150mm (6") size. More surface area = faster sanding and fewer paper changes.

I have the 3mm orbit sander, and indeed it gives a very nice finish, but I think you can step up to a 5mm orbit and get a pretty similar finish and faster sanding.

I wouldn't worry too much about the vacuum hose connection. Over the years, I have had to make many vacuum conversion fittings. And as mentioned somewhere above, you can likely buy one on Etsy.

There are occasions when I turn down the vacuum level (usually when fine sanding a polyurethane finish) but 99% of my sanding on wood is done with vacuum at max.

The model suggested above by Woodferret would be a good candidate.

 

[bobtskutter]

My thoughts, I have a Rotex125, ETS125 and DTS400.

• the ancient DeWalt began brutally murdering my hands. Too many past injuries. The sander has to be low vibration. This is my main reason for considering the Festool. - oh dear, I also have problems with my fingers, probably not as severe as you. The Rotex125/ETS125/DTS400 all have large grips so they are easy to hold. The ETS125 & DTS400 works best with a light grip, just to keep it "floating" over the surface. The Rotex125 can be wild beast on certain types of material, or a gentle pussy cat on others - it might not be the machine for you.
• corded model - all of mine are corded. Festool have a removable cord system (plug-it), it works well but does seem strange at first.
• Has the industry has gone to 6" medium? I'm looking at that stack of quality 5" paper in my garage. Stay 5" or go 6"? (I could alternatively get a crap 5" sander and muddle through the rest of my supply.) - The festool 125 and 150 sanding disks don't use a "standard" hole pattern, your collection of disks will still fit but the dust collection from the sander will be below what is normal for Festool machines. If you're using "mesh" sanding disks it doesn't make a difference.
• One is a 3mm and the other a 5mm travel. If I only have one machine in the budget, which one is right? - if you're trying to be gentle with the sanding then probably a 3mm orbit, but others on this forum are more experianced than me!
• can I / how do I hook to Ridgid shop vac? I'm talking about the non duct tape way hahaha! - Painters tape 3D printed nozzle adapters? There's a whole bunch of pictures on the internet about connecting power tools to vacuums. The Festool vacs are good, but they're expensive - the bags aren't cheap. I have a CTM36 and the VT-VA-20, it's great piece of kit -but it's not cheap.

Bob

 

[Jim_in_PA]

The entire reason I moved to Festool sanders back in the mid-2000s is because the "box store" sanders were putting my hands to sleep and causing pain from vibration. I have zero regrets about that decision all these years later and now own additional Festool sanders as time and needs (and opportunity) came about. My most used is now the 150/5 (newer style, hand on top) even though I started with the older 150/3 and RO150 back in the day.

 

[nockpoint]

If you're going to use a Festool sander, especially ETS EC 150/5, then you're definitely going to need at least a bleed valve on your hose. Otherwise it won't behave properly as there'd be too much suction.

My current postage stamp sized work area is likely to change to an entire outbuilding within a year. I assumed I'd install a shop size system for all tools. Maybe a boom with a hose for tools like sanders. But now you guys have me wondering... will I still need to get a rolling Festool dust extractor just to dial in airflow for the sander?

 

[cpw]

I will second that the my old Dewalt 5" was no good for my wrists/hands. The 125mm Rotex I replaced it was much better. I added the PRO5 which is the ETS 125 when it was on promotion; which is a bit easier to handle than a Rotex.

I have since added DTSC, RS2 E, and RAS 115. They all have their place. A 6"/150mm would be nice for certain things, but for a hobbiest it is a bit of a pain to have to stock another size of abrasives.

 

[nockpoint]

I will second that the my old Dewalt 5" was no good for my wrists/hands. The 125mm Rotex I replaced it was much better. I added the PRO5 which is the ETS 125 when it was on promotion; which is a bit easier to handle than a Rotex.

I have since added DTSC, RS2 E, and RAS 115. They all have their place. A 6"/150mm would be nice for certain things, but for a hobbiest it is a bit of a pain to have to stock another size of abrasives.

I searched them, some finish sanders and something beefy in the grinder form factor. You've got a whole Festool family of sanders. I agree about the abrasives, plus with so many good ones now on the market it would be nice to pair the best with the tool. I have not used the Festool or Mirka abrasives yet to be fair, and the naming conventions leave me completely clueless as to their prescribed uses. Mirka's got like 40 different kind, all named after characters from LotR. Who has that kind of time?

I didn't realize Festool ever had promotions. Should I wait for the 4th of July? kidding / not kidding

The forum has been very helpful. I'm still uncertain as to the effectiveness of my plan on dust collection given my temporary issues. As far as the sander itself, I'm leaning towards the ETS-EC150/3 to start (+some cheapo 5" to burn my current stock of paper) and fill out the ranks with other machines later. I did a door that my 5" couldn't fit on and those 3" machines were very tempting.

 

[smorgasbord]

For cordless, there are new Festool sanders, but also look at:
• Milwaukee's M12 cordless sander, 6" about 5mm orbit
• Makita's corded 40v battery sander. Yeah, not a typo. The battery pack is separate from the sander, which makes the sander very light. There's a short-ish cord to a battery pack you clip on your body somewhere.

However, assuming you wanted corded and wanted to get into Festool (both good decisions), I'd recommend the ETS-EC 150/5 over the 150/3, especially if you're going to get more machines later and/or a cheaper 5" sander to use up your paper. Although, I think selling your 5" paper might be the better option.

And yes, with the 150 (6"), then the Festool RO90 makes a great next sander (that's what I did).

The difference in "smoothness" between the 5mm and 3mm orbits are small. If you're OCD like me, then your final sanding will be by hand with the grain. Since this is at a high grit (like 320 or higher), it's pretty quick even by hand (although I do have an LS130 that I have broken out a couple times to power linear sand).

 

[nockpoint]

For cordless, there are new Festool sanders, but also look at:
• Milwaukee's M12 cordless sander, 6" about 5mm orbit
• Makita's corded 40v battery sander. Yeah, not a typo. The battery pack is separate from the sander, which makes the sander very light. There's a short-ish cord to a battery pack you clip on your body somewhere.

However, assuming you wanted corded and wanted to get into Festool (both good decisions), I'd recommend the ETS-EC 150/5 over the 150/3, especially if you're going to get more machines later and/or a cheaper 5" sander to use up your paper. Although, I think selling your 5" paper might be the better option.

And yes, with the 150 (6"), then the Festool RO90 makes a great next sander (that's what I did).

The difference in "smoothness" between the 5mm and 3mm orbits are small. If you're OCD like me, then your final sanding will be by hand with the grain. Since this is at a high grit (like 320 or higher), it's pretty quick even by hand (although I do have an LS130 that I have broken out a couple times to power linear sand).

I did see reviews on the Milwaukee. Probably on sale now. Good vibration control but very short battery life. 731 said 20-ish minutes (and he loves everything). Some people are also forced to use channel locks to get the battery out. Something of a design or quality issue. There is a Bosch, corded, form factor of Rotex. I'll check out the Makita, if only for curiosity sake. Separate pack seems a good idea to have a larger battery.

It's not OCD to hand sand the final is it? Stumpy Nubs said... OK maybe Stumpy is a little OCD. It's block-o-rama over here. I think your the 4th to suggest the 5mm over the 3mm. I'm convinced.

OMG RO90 what did I just watch? That's going on the Christmas list.

 

[luvmytoolz]

OMG RO90 what did I just watch? That's going on the Christmas list.

I think it's a safe bet if you do get the RO90, the only regret you'll have is you didn't get it sooner!

The RO90 is the reason I sold my ~45 year old RO1E and immediately bought the RO150. I figured if the RO90 was THAT good, I couldn't wait to try the latest RO150!

 

[Cheese]

For cordless, there are new Festool sanders, but also look at:
Makita's corded 40v battery sander. Yeah, not a typo. The battery pack is separate from the sander, which makes the sander very light. There's a short-ish cord to a battery pack you clip on your body somewhere.

Hmmm, a 40 V sander...I wonder if it is lighter than my 36 V Stihl lawn mower? But wait, it's also corded at the same time...so it has the mobility of a Milwaukee "battery powered" drill released circa 1960...ya I'll purchase a couple off those nifty Makita items...

 

[Allano]

I assumed I'd install a shop size system for all tools.

What is a "shop size system" to you? Often, that means a lot of air flow at very little vacuum. That is good for some tools, mostly the stationary ones with big dust ports. But as soon as you add restrictions in the air path, there is not enough vacuum to overcome them, and the air flow will die.

Most hand tools need the opposite, because there are so many restrictions in the air path: A lot of vacuum and not so much air flow. That is what a dust extractor or a shop vac does. In the end, this gives more air flow than you would get with the same hand tools on a low vacuum shop system.

(This may not apply to a sander, where you can alos have too much vacuum. Perhaps it will do fine with a low vacuum shop system? I wouldn't know.)

There are some systems, which can deliver both high vacuum and high air flow, so you can use them for both purposes. But if you don't go specifically for those, you will probably end up with a system, which cannot create the necessary vacuum.

 

[Vtshopdog]

Agree with what others have written above but will add below warning:

I bought a 150-3 and Festool extractor vac about 15 years ago. Within 2 weeks I was back at the tool store purchasing a DTS-400 detail sander as sanding was now clean and actually kinda fun. The dust extraction is a huge deal.

You are entering (expensive!!) slippery slope territory but if you can swing the expense to enter the system you will be very happy with results.