My CT36 does NOT filter all the dust !!!

[Cableaddict]

I purchased a CT36 last month, after being unhappy with certain features of the Bosch AirSweep.

I suffer from Acute Silicosis, (from breathing in some concrete dust)  so my main reason for buying a premium vac was to have as little dust as possible put back into the air. I will be using the vac as much for cleaning duties as for sanders, etc.  

Unfortunately, the CT36 seems to do an INCREDIBLY lousy job of filtering. Every time I turn it on & vacuum even a tiny bit, I can clearly smell dust being blown into the air around the vac.  At first I thought I was imagining it, but now there is just no doubt.
- And this is dangerous concrete dust, as I am still finishing my basement rebuild.

I'm absolutely stunned.  What the heck does "HEPA" really mean?   The Bosch smelled absolutely clean, when I was right next to it, even when sucking up tons of this dust.  (It uses two larger filters with maybe 4X the surface area of the Festool)  The difference in expelled dust is astounding, and I'm beyond frustrated & concerned.

I checked inside, and the Festool "HEPA" filter is in place.  Is it possible to somehow lock the filter down but not have a good seal?

I recently sent-in the form for that "lead dust" certified hepa filter, but it hasn't come yet.  MAYBE it will solve the problem?  
- But this really concerns me:  

If the current filter is truly HEPA,  how can there be a "better" HEPA filter?  Is the original HEAP filter & holder just a lousy design?  

What are my chances that the new filter will solve this problem?

Does everyone just put up with this?

 

[Cableaddict]

BTW -  

I'm using the self-cleaning fleece bags. (The reason I sold my Bosch & got the Festool)   The HEPA filter looks pristine.  

And yes, I checked the complaint seal around the filter housing.  It seems fine.

I do notice a little roughness on the edges of the vac's internal black area, where the filter-seal pushes down. Considering how little force is applied when locking the filter, this could be the problem.  I would sand this flat, but I don't want to blow my warrantee or return privileges. 
-----------

Maybe there's an internal leak somewhere else?

 

[peter halle]

I would suggest that you also contact Festool directly either by phone or email for assistance with your situation.

Peter

 

[Cableaddict]

Yes, Peter, I intend to.  Of course.

But first I need to know if this is a common problem.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I have the CT 36, but with the disposable bags, and I don't have that issue.  Maybe it has to do with the bag type or you don't have a good connection where the bag interfaces with the vacuum.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I don't have any issue with my CT26 either.

 

[Brice Burrell]

...But first I need to know if this is a common problem.

This is not a common problem.  In fact Festool recently announced that their vacs are good for RRP work with lead paint.  The vacs are now HEPA certified, meaning you should get no leakage past the filter or other areas of the vac.   

 

[nehardwoodfloors]

If you end up being un-satisied with it, check out Clarke cav 12's.

You can get em through HD rental. Great Nilfisk designed vacuum with dual filters.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

First, let me answer the questions you had...

HEPA is a specification for a specific level of filtration. In the United States, it's defined as filtering at least 99.97% of particulate down to 0.3 microns. Read here for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA

Is it possible not to have a good seal? Well, I suppose it's possible if the filter is not properly installed, the filter is faulty or the CT is faulty in some way.

The new HEPA filter you will receive was certified to prevent bypass leakage in addition to being HEPA spec. Festool changed filter manufacturers since the CT 26/36 were originally introduced. The only way for us to make sure those units had no bypass leakage was to provide customers with the new filter which was the one that was tested and certified. Honestly, I doubt you'll see any noticeable difference between your original filter and the new one.

The filter in your CT is "truly HEPA". In the US, by definition, HEPA is HEPA. There are not different levels of HEPA.

The filter design has remained virtually the same between the old and new manufacturer and the locking mechanism has not changed whatsoever. Neither were "lousy" to begin with.

I should mention that your dust extractor is not filtering all of the air in the room. So it's possible, if not probable, that you would smell the odor just from exposure to the material. The only air that will be HEPA filtered would be the exhaust air from the unit.

Now, on to advice and a remedy.

I would highly recommend that you wear a respirator when performing these tasks, especially since you're sensitive to that material. The dust could get stirred up into the air through movement alone. I can't say what might be causing what you're describing. If it's convenient to do so and you're within 30 days of purchase, just take it back and exchange it for another unit. Maybe there's an issue with your current CT. Otherwise, definitely contacting the service department on Monday and I'm sure they'll help you out.

Edit: Not that I'm trying to discredit your account of what's going on but I wonder if it might be something that you're smelling from the CT, new tool smell for lack of a better word. Have you tried running it in an environment that free of the concrete to see if you still smell the odor?

My apologies for the issue.

Shane

 

[Cableaddict]

  I wonder if it might be something that you're smelling from the CT, new tool smell for lack of a better word. Have you tried running it in an environment that free of the concrete to see if you still smell the odor?

My apologies for the issue.

Shane

That's a very good idea. (and thanks for the reply.)  I have been afraid to test this too much, since that meant inhaling what is already (literally) killing me. - but a clean test is safe.  I'll wipe the insides down, install a fresh bag, & see what's what.

I also thought maybe to try vacuuming some flour, or something, so I could see the exhaust yet be fairly safe.

One thing for sure, though, it's not a "new" smell.  It's nothing like plastic, unless I'm smelling the fleece bag. -  Which is kinda' what I wanted to know from users.  Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[semenza]

Another thing to consider is that the exhaust would be stirring up any concrete dust in the area. ie; dust that has not gone through/into the vac.

Can you test by placing the vac outside the work area and vacuuming inside the work area.

Also regardless of how sealed the vac is, I would echo Shane in that a respirator should be worn anyway, since just being in that envirement is dangerous for you.

Seth

 

[mastercabman]

Is it possible that the exhaust air is stirring dirt on the floor?

Update;
Well someone beat me to it!

 

[Cableaddict]

Good thought, guys, but I already did check that.

Yeah, I wear a respirator all the time now when working.  The problem is, this super-fine dust, which just happens to do the most damage, hangs in the air for hours.

Well, I'll test more tonight & report back.  It might just be those rough edges on the plastic, but again I can't sand them down without messing up my warrantee. 

Well, THANKS for the thoughts.

 

[Kevin D.]

Not sure if this would work, but do you have any old pantyhoses about?  Just thinking of cutting them in pieces necessary to tape over the vacs exhaust and also where you think unfiltered air may be escaping.  Run the vac for a while, untape pantyhose pieces, and see if there is residue present on the side that was fastened to the body vent's and seals of where you had affixed it.  No idea if this would work to make a determination, but it might!  I suggest using blue painters tape so as to not leave a residue on the unit should you decide to return it.

 

[Cableaddict]

^ another good idea.

-though really, there's no doubt in my mind about this.  I really came here to find out if it's a typical situation.  Again, this didn't happen with the Bosch AirSweep I had previously.

Well, I'll test tomorrow if I can find the time.

 

[ajones]

Cableaddict

I am not aware of any members posting with any issues with the ct's so I doubt you will get any answers here.

I have the 26 and am very happy with it

there could only be one  problem and that  would be the seal between the filter and the body

the best thing to do would be to either change it or get it looked at by festool,as suggested by Shane.

and be sure to let us know how you get on.

 

[Cableaddict]

Well, I did some more tests, and I had a long talk with a Festool tech, and there is simply no doubt:

This is a faulty design.

After ruling out the possibility of a defective unit, and the possibility that dust might have gotten into the motor-cooling area, this tech told me that the old HEPA filters COULD, in fact, pass small amounts of dust through the edges.  That's why they had to come up with a new filter design, the old one wouldn't pass inspection.

His words, not mine.  The amount of fine concrete dust this thing puts back in the air is downright scary.  I am mystified that no one else has noticed.

I am still waiting to receive my new filter. It would be nice to test the machine with it before returning it, but my 30 days are up tomorrow.  I'll have to call Bob Marino & see if I can get an extension.

I am just stunned by this.  No offense, but so much for Festool's reputation.  Even if the new filter design solves this problem (and that remains to be seen) the fact is that Festool has been selling a product for years that was supposed to be "HEPA" and it really wasn't.  Amazing.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

The HEPA certification is for the filter material, not what could possibly get around the filter's seal.  That's something totally different.

 

[Tim Sproul]

I've been sanding A LOT of drywall with my CT22 and 150/5 sander using 120 grit.

Not a whiff of dust exits the CT until bag change.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I am just stunned by this.  No offense, but so much for Festool's reputation.  Even if the new filter design solves this problem (and that remains to be seen) the fact is that Festool has been selling a product for years that was supposed to be "HEPA" and it really wasn't.  Amazing.

That is not the fact. The CT 36 is only 1 year out now ( I think even shorter in the USA) , and as Ken already mentioned, the filter material was HEPA certified, not the entire vac. Festool only very recently got the full HEPA certification for the entire vac, as was announced on this site and other Festool websites.

When you try to bash someone's reputation, do it on the real facts, not the ones you make up. Yes, the filter was redesigned to meet full HEPA certification demands, but does that mean the old filter they gave you suddenly has holes the size of New Mexico in it? I think not. The specifications for these filters are about such minute particles that no normal man can tell the difference, only specialised measuring equipment can. There are many people here on this site that have the CT26/36 for a year now and your problem has never been reported here by any of them. But you have one for 30 days and now you're generalising your problem to all these vacs/filters and Festool, while nobody else did. So is it not more plausible that you got a faulty vac/filter instead of the idea that all of those Festool made are faulty?

Looks to me that as soon as you made Festool aware of your problem they're working vigorously with you to resolve it. Yes, sometimes individual tools can have their faults because nobody is 100% of the time perfect, not even Festool's production lines. What really counts in my book, when talking about reputations, is how they try to resolve any of their mistakes.