My New bit for drilling MFT tops!!

[NDM]

I finally found a reasonably priced spiral bit for drilling 25/32 holes. I love the 25/32 hole size because there is much less slop when using the parf and qwas dogs.  I started with the freud 20mm bit but again, I had slop that would be fine for most but I dont like it. Then I went with the whiteside 1/2 in shank 25/32 double flute bit. This works great but It takes forever to drill a bunch of holes and burns alot if I try to speed up the plunge. So Finally I found the perfect bit for me.
Price is affordable and they shipped it next day. I will probably get a couple more bits from them.

The bit works like a charm. Faster, cleaner and cleans chips out better.  I have noticed that the holes are a little tighter than even the 25/32 double flute whiteside bit. Probably due to the better cleaning out of the holes while routing. The dogs still fit and slide in and out fine, but for me and my system, now life is good. I am going to make a 4' X8' or a 5'X10' MFT table very soon using  80/20 rails. I am trying to reduce having to use my tablesaw by about 90%.  That way I can regain some shop space that I had reserved for outfeed while cutting large sheets by myself. I never really felt safe doing that. With this setup, I will be good to go.

I almost ordered the 4 flute bit but then I realized it was 3/4 shank and didnt cut the center.

MSC Industrial 25/32 Milling bit

 

[Michael Kellough]

Thanks for the tip! That bit probably makes holes that match the original MFT holes.
I was disappointed with the Festool 20mm router bit that made oversized holes.

 

[Theshipstore]

I like the idea of using an end mill for punching the holes, but I would be cautious using one as they are not designed for router high speeds.
They are normally used for cutting metals and most time at a much slower RPM than a router
Not trying to pop the bubble just advising on caution

Sal

 

[NDM]

Thanks for the tip! That bit probably makes holes that match the original MFT holes.
I was disappointed with the Festool 20mm router bit that made oversized holes.

I like the idea of using an end mill for punching the holes, but I would be cautious using one as they are not designed for router high speeds.
They are normally used for cutting metals and most time at a much slower RPM than a router
Not trying to pop the bubble just advising on caution

Sal

Well...something weird happeded. I was drilling holes. Over and over doing practice holes. I would test fit each hole with a parf dog after drilling.....when......What the heck?!?!

As I went along dialing in the best speed to use....the holes started getting too tight for the stinking dogs. I can force them in but it is really tight. While I think I know the issue, I was just kinda weirded out by this.

What I think is going on is that the mill is made with much higher tolerances that the other bits. As I dialed in the best speed for the bit, the holes got more  and more exact. When I got to the sweet spot, the holes were absolutely georgous, but they were too small.

So what will I do? I think I will dial the speed back up to achieve slightly imperfect holes but holes that will take the parf dogs.
While some of you may be thinking that it doesnt make sense to continue using the bit, I will point out that, while imperfect, the imperfect holes are still better than the holes were with the other bits. So, there you have it.  I really am very pleased with these bits. I am certain to order more.

 

[greg mann]

Since it is an end mill there is clearance right up to the periphery of the cutting edge. Being HSS it will lose a bit of size more quickly as that edge wears. Router bits will do this as well but most these days are carbide and not subject to wear as quickly. Holes will heat up edges far more quickly than milling as well. Seeing that your mill size is .781 you are already making holes about 19.85 so you don't have much room for wear before you will be too small. Playing with speed and plunge feed-rate may very well give you a sweet spot. I suspect a faster plunge may help open the holes up.

 

[NDM]

Since it is an end mill there is clearance right up to the periphery of the cutting edge. Being HSS it will lose a bit of size more quickly as that edge wears. Router bits will do this as well but most these days are carbide and not subject to wear as quickly. Holes will heat up edges far more quickly than milling as well. Seeing that your mill size is .781 you are already making holes about 19.85 so you don't have much room for wear before you will be too small. Playing with speed and plunge feed-rate may very well give you a sweet spot. I suspect a faster plunge may help open the holes up.

You are absolutely right. I am finding that turning the speed all the way up and plunging quickly is getting me excellent results. Tomorrow I am going to see if high speed/quick plunge is better that Low speed/slow plunge but with a second quick plunge in each hole is better. I am almost certain that I am going to stay with high/quick. I mean...that is kinda what I was looking for from the start...right!?!

But I think I am going to make another 2X4 MFT top with the new bit just to test everything out before I go wasting an entire sheet of MDF.

 

[Stone Message]

Well...something weird happeded. I was drilling holes. Over and over doing practice holes. I would test fit each hole with a parf dog after drilling.....when......What the heck?!?!

As I went along dialing in the best speed to use....the holes started getting too tight for the stinking dogs. I can force them in but it is really tight. While I think I know the issue, I was just kinda weirded out by this.

What I think is going on is that the mill is made with much higher tolerances that the other bits. As I dialed in the best speed for the bit, the holes got more  and more exact. When I got to the sweet spot, the holes were absolutely georgous, but they were too small.

So what will I do? I think I will dial the speed back up to achieve slightly imperfect holes but holes that will take the parf dogs.
While some of you may be thinking that it doesnt make sense to continue using the bit, I will point out that, while imperfect, the imperfect holes are still better than the holes were with the other bits. So, there you have it.  I really am very pleased with these bits. I am certain to order more.

The problem is that 25/32 inches equals 19.84 mm and the Veritas Parf and accompanying small dogs have a nominal diameter of 19.90mm.

I am glad that you are able to make it work though and that bit is being sold at a great price.

Peter

 

[Slappy]

[popcorn]

 

[AlexThePalex]

So what's the maximum rpm rating for this bit? Couldn't find it on the website. 

 

[greg mann]

So what's the maximum rpm rating for this bit? Couldn't find it on the website. 

I personally would want to run it at the slowest possible setting, but the OP has had to try different combinations to influence hole size. Hmmm....maybe there is a market for a 19.9mm bridge reamer here.

 

[AlexThePalex]

A reamer would be a so much better choice to get a good fit. That's what reamers are made for, to leave a perfectly round hole of an exact diameter.

Only problem I see is that bits made for metal work are nowhere near rated for the rpm that's used with routers for wood. If I remember correctly, typical milling operations can be as slow as 20 rpm up to 1200 rpm, depending on bit size and material. But even the slowest setting on any Festool router is 10.000. That's quite the gap.   

 

[greg mann]

A reamer would be a so much better choice to get a good fit. That's what reamers are made for, to leave a perfectly round hole of an exact diameter.

Only problem I see is that bits made for metal work are nowhere near rated for the rpm that's used with routers for wood. If I remember correctly, typical milling operations can be as slow as 20 rpm up to 1200 rpm, depending on bit size and material. But even the slowest setting on any Festool router is 10.000. That's quite the gap.   

The OF1400 can run at 10,000 RPM. A 20mm tool will be running about 2000 Feet/min or 700M/min. (These are round numbers) This would be a reasonable speed for milling aluminum with carbide, although it CAN be done much slower and/or much faster depending on a host of variables. HSS in wood will certainly be taxed at these speeds but that is as slow as you can go with a router. To get tool life one has to keep the tool cutting, no dwelling or rubbing, because that will cause heat. If the chips are thicker they will pull heat out within them. There is no true known answer here. The OP can only go so slow on RPM and can only plunge so fast without compromising some other needed variable. I suspect he will be the expert by virtue of trying, and we will all know more from what he finds out.

 

[Slappy]

A reamer would be a so much better choice to get a good fit. That's what reamers are made for, to leave a perfectly round hole of an exact diameter.

Only problem I see is that bits made for metal work are nowhere near rated for the rpm that's used with routers for wood. If I remember correctly, typical milling operations can be as slow as 20 rpm up to 1200 rpm, depending on bit size and material. But even the slowest setting on any Festool router is 10.000. That's quite the gap.   

The OF1400 can run at 10,000 RPM. A 20mm tool will be running about 2000 Feet/min or 700M/min. (These are round numbers) This would be a reasonable speed for milling aluminum with carbide, although it CAN be done much slower and/or much faster depending on a host of variables. HSS in wood will certainly be taxed at these speeds but that is as slow as you can go with a router. To get tool life one has to keep the tool cutting, no dwelling or rubbing, because that will cause heat. If the chips are thicker they will pull heat out within them. There is no true known answer here. The OP can only go so slow on RPM and can only plunge so fast without compromising some other needed variable. I suspect he will be the expert by virtue of trying, and we will all know more from what he finds out.

He now is a "Test Bunny "

[popcorn]  I await his out come as I'm planning a Ho'made MFT build myself  :-\

 

[James Metcalf]

Any updates? Thanks.

 

[NDM]

Any updates? Thanks.

I have been really busy and have not had time to whip up a few tops. I will be doing one really soon though.

 

[boblenz]

Wondering if anyone has found a solution to this dilemma.  Got my Parf Dogs this week from Lee Valley and want to do my top but want is to work and it seems the Festool bit is not perfect.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Wondering if anyone has found a solution to this dilemma.  Got my Parf Dogs this week from Lee Valley and want to do my top but want is to work and it seems the Festool bit is not perfect.

The Festool 20mm bit cuts well with a plunge router. The only problem is that the hole is a little too big for the Dogs made for the MFT.

The solution seems to be an opportunity for someone who can make and market Fat Dogs.
(Fat Dogs would be too big for the MFT but would perfectly fit the slightly ovesized holes the Festool 20mm bit makes)

 

[boblenz]

Or market "Skinny" Dogs.  I made the Paulk workbench and used a 3/4" bit, now that I found out about the dogs, wished I had done them in 20mm.  Looking for a good plunge bit to do the 20mm staggered next to the 3/4" holes in various spots.  Top is going to be very Holy. [eek]

 

[Svar]

Or market "Skinny" Dogs.  I made the Paulk workbench and used a 3/4" bit, now that I found out about the dogs, wished I had done them in 20mm.  Looking for a good plunge bit to do the 20mm staggered next to the 3/4" holes in various spots.  Top is going to be very Holy. [eek]

Or just buy 3/4 aluminum rod and cut to size to make your own dogs.

 

[zapdafish]

I got one of the 20mm drill bits from Lee Valley

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,180,42240&p=42261

I also bought some 20mm bushings from ebay so all I will need to do is use my drill press to drill holes into my jig to hold the bushings and then all the holes from then on should be 90 deg.