My solution to cut plywood down.

[fidelfs]

I work in a 2 car garage 19 X 20.  I have several tools and the space is cramped.  I have to put back everything after working on my hobby so my wife can park her car.

I've been using this [attachthumb=1] portable table, but I didn't have much space to move when cutting it using the TS55 and my CT22.  I have a Unisaw, Rikon Band saw 14", Jointer, Planner, full workbench, MFT, 15" Drill Press, Router table cabinet with Incra LS positioner..... so you got the idea not much space to cut those big sheets of plywood.

I found this [attachthumb=2] (Ezze-Feed) attachment in finewoodworking March/April 2008 magazine.  It looks promising because I can cut the sheets in my Unisaw, safe, fast and easy.
The TS55 is easy for this task but I need room for the dust extraction and my own person to walk next to the sheet to make the cut.  With this attachment I will have a lot of room to move when cutting the sheets and the best of all is safe.  ;D

I can store it flat next to anything look at this [attachthumb=3]

 

[Steve Jones]

A little basic logic:

TS55 with some kind of stand: needs to be as big as a sheet of plywood, plus room to move around it and room for dust control (which could be under the sheet)

Table saw: Needs the size of the plywood on infeed side, plus another on the outfeed side (got to have somewhere to go), plus another width (4') in case you need to cut accross the width, plus outfeed that width (again).

You need a space the size of four sheets of plywood (128 square feet) to safely cut sheets on a table saw.

And you don't have room for the 7" folding stand, but do have room for the unisaw?

but adding an extension to the unisaw will solve the problem???

Fidelf, you're fighting yourself. Take the easy way out, park the unisaw in the corner or sell it.

 

[fidelfs]

Steve,

I really don't see your logic about needing 128 square feet.  Unisaw is in place.  No need to move it.  I have an outfeed already in place.  The one that is attached to the Unisaw and fold down. so It does not take space.  when the outfeed is open is almost touching the garage door (1-2 inches) If I need to cut something larger, I open the door.

If you see the attachment you just put the plywood on it and it slides because the rollers.  I just need room to move the plywood next to the attachment and the other roller will help me to pivot the sheet on the attachment.  The plywood will stay put by itself.  I just need room behind the unisaw as much as the plywood itself.  When initiate the cut you push from the side against the fence, until the sheet is almost pass the blade then you push it from behind.  I already have that room, I have been cutting plywood before I bought the TS55.

I cannot have the CT22 under the plywood because the configuration of the portable table I use.  As you can see in my previous post and the image from my portable table.

As you can see my garage configuration [attachthumb=1] (not in scale) I have room behind the unisaw.  Unisaw, Drill, Jointer, Planner, BandSaw, Router table are in casters so I move them if needed.  When I cut plywood I don't need to move them I have enough room behind the Table saw.

My problem is the empty space to the left is enough to make the cuts using the TS55 but it is a hassle.  I have to think 5 times before doing it.  Just the tight space makes you feel uncomfortable.

So every time I need the attachment, I will install it and when is not needed I will fold it and store it.

And the most important, UNISAW is not for sale unless I purchase a Felder combination machine.  That is the only reason I would exchange/sale/get rid of it.  It is my workhorse,  I use it the most.

 

[Steve Jones]

now I understand, since you're keeping the unisaw, how much  hassle would it be to remove the fence and place a cutting frame on top of the unisaw for cutting with the TS55?

Maybe some strips of plywood with slots to lock together, they could live in a tight bundle not taking up much space when not in use

 

[semenza]

Hi,

    Is the location of the Unisaw in the purple floor plan, the location it gets used in?  In any case  if you could put a cutting frame on top of the Unisaw as Steve suggested then you would not need any infeed space, nor an additional table set up. You might actually gain some work space.  Just a though. It is hard to know with out actually being there.

Seth

 

[Dave Rudy]

My .02 rant:  I have discovered that in woodworking many tools will often be able to achieve the same result, cut, etc.  The question is -- when is the tool ideally suited to the job?  When are you fighting the design of the tool to do a job for which it is not ideally suited? 

A classic example is the discussion we seem to have again and again about the TS55 and the tablesaw.  We talk often about ripping thin strips and cutting down sheet goods.  The TS55 will rip thin strips but is it the ideal tool to do so?  You don't NEED a tablesaw, you can make the TS55 do the job.  But it is slower and more difficult to do precision repetitive ripping with the TS55 than with a tuned tablesaw.  Everyone gets to decide for himself how much room, money, etc. he has and how to distribute it.  For my part, I keep my old Rockwell Unisaw because there are some tasks it just does better than any other tool.  (If guide rail cutting was the perfect, 100% solution, why would Festool offer the CMS or Basis systems?).  Steve Jones may have found the best solution so far to a tablesaw-less shop in the plate he developed to use the TS55 as a tablesaw, but other than that or a similar concept, the tablesaw still has a significant place in the shop.

On the other hand, why anyone with access to a TS55 would ever again use a tablesaw to cut down sheet goods is beyond me.  The tablesaw (short of a large sliding table European combination machine) is just not the best tool for the job (and that by a long shot).  The TS55 is ideal for this task (and crosscutting and other tasks as well).

So, while I can see why you like the table, Fidelfs, I can't understand why that is preferable to a TS55 with an MFT or sawhorses with a cutting surface, or any of a number of other cutting systems which the creativity of this group has generated.

Leaving aside money and space issues (which are the end of the analysis for many of us, much of the time), why not use the best tool for each job?

(off soapbox)

 

[Ned]

My .02 rant: 
(off soapbox)

[Applause]

Ned

 

[Frank Pellow]

Dave, that was a good soapbox you were on, I listened to your speach, and I agree with you.  

I have two shops; one has a tablesaw and bandsaw and the other doesn't.  As well, I do a lot of off-site work.  Of course, I take my Festool stuff everywhere.  There is nothing much that I can't do when I am a without the tablesaw/bandsaw, thanks to my Festool circular saw and jigsaw, but I do use the tablesaw and bandsaw a LOT when they are available. (But, of course, I never cut large sheets of stuff on my tablesaw anymore.  ;D)

 

[Dan Clark]

Dave,

I believe in using the best tool for the job, given your constraints.  Time, money, and space are three of the biggest constraints for most people.  What frosts me are the purists who argue about the best tool for the job regardless of your constraints.  I.e., "X" tool is the best under all conditions. 

I love it when someone asks the question, "What's the best way to get a full sheet of ply on to my tablesaw to break it down?".  For most people and under most conditions, the answer is, "Don't do it! Rip it with a circular saw and guide!"  OTOH, if you're ripping a lot ply in a production situation, have a big permanent shop, and need perfect accuracy FAST, then a complex lifting apparatus hooked to a large cabinet saw with a sliding top may be the best alternative.

Or, tablesaws are best for small rips.  That's true IF you have a tablesaw and IF the tablesaw is set up and ready to go.  IF you don't have a tablesaw or have no place to put one or don't feel the need to get one for the few times you do small rips, then maybe other options are "best" for you.

OK, off soapbox.

Dan.

 

[danrush]

All these soapboxes, tou guys must have really clean feet!!! ;D

 

[Dave Rudy]

You know what they say -- clean feet, warm heart ... or, uh....?

 

[fidelfs]

My .02 rant: 

On the other hand, why anyone with access to a TS55 would ever again use a tablesaw to cut down sheet goods is beyond me.
....
....
....

So, while I can see why you like the table, Fidelfs, I can't understand why that is preferable to a TS55 with an MFT or sawhorses with a cutting surface, or any of a number of other cutting systems which the creativity of this group has generated.

Leaving aside money and space issues (which are the end of the analysis for many of us, much of the time), why not use the best tool for each job?

(off soapbox)

Well, Looks like I tried to make my post clear, but the message has not being received.  ;D  ;D  (Just a joke!!!)

The point I am trying to make it is the space issue, I cannot leaving it aside, that is my issue.  My message is I have to move all my garage to cut a sheet of plywood to use my portable table, CT22 and TS55. So this is very inconvenient, and I hate it.  It takes so much time to put everything in place.
My table saw is in casters but I don't move it unless I need to use all the 55" extension.  If I use this attachment It won't be in my Table saw all the time.  It is really easy to install. (see the videohttp://lumberjocks.com/jocks/David/blog/2770)  I have enough room behind the Table saw and I can use the gorilla grip to move the sheet close to the Table saw and then tilt it into this apparatus and then slide it very easily. 

People buy the TS55 and CT22 because it is not safe to cut a sheet of plywood in a Table saw.  This apparatus makes it safer (nothing is 100% safe even the TS55).

 

[Dave Rudy]

Fidelfs,

I got that space is a major issue for you (as it is for many).  Now imagine your garage with the car outside and the tablesaw in the driveway or parked in the corner.  Wouldn't you have room to put a foamboard on the floor or on a set-up/take-down table (as many here have described)?  That's the part I don't get.  Worst case, if you can get a sheet of plywood onto your table saw, can't you get a piece of foamboard onto your table saw and put your sheet on top of that and cut it with the TS55?  If your working space is big enough to use a tablesaw, it has to be big enough to use a TS55, no?    ??? ??? ??? ???

 

[Steve Jones]

I think we're all trying to solve the wrong problem for Fidelfs....

He's got an expensive tablesaw, he put a lot of money into it, planning on getting years of use out of it.

Just because we would do things a certain way does not mean everyone has to. Every post here has valid points, none of them are solving Fidelfs problem. we are (well, I was, and you guys are) going in the wrong direction. Think about it.

 

[fidelfs]

I think we're all trying to solve the wrong problem for Fidelfs....

He's got an expensive tablesaw, he put a lot of money into it, planning on getting years of use out of it.

Just because we would do things a certain way does not mean everyone has to. Every post here has valid points, none of them are solving Fidelfs problem. we are (well, I was, and you guys are) going in the wrong direction. Think about it.

Steve you nailed it. 

Yes, I have space for TS55.  I said it in my early posts.  The issue is that it is to cramped that is a hassle, I don't like it, I hate it.  I am not saying the TS55 is a bad tool or does not work, etc.  The configuration in my garage does not allow for much room.  I am a big guy and my point is safety.

Using my portable table and TS55 is making it unsafe.  I have to lean into the plywood to move the TS55 and to avoid the shelves.  I don't have a boom arm so I have to be careful so the CT22 hose and power wire don't get stuck anywhere. 

Every time I have to use that combination I have to move many things around to make space, I hate it.  I found this definition of woodworking as a hobby and it defines the main reason of this discussion " Woodworking is a hobby or past time, which for me means that the process of doing it is at least as satisfying as the end product."
The process of cutting plywood with TS55 is not satisfying, pleasurable, enjoyable.  It is a hassle. I agree 100% the Table Saw in its original configuration it is not safe to cut plywood.  I have my unisaw equipped with a biesemeyer splitter, anti-kick back safety rollers, biesemeyer blade guard system, HTC Outfeed rollers and If I add this new attachment it will make it very safe for plywood use.

 

[JayStPeter]

I'm with you fidelfs.

At one point I had a couple of thesehttp://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5327 that I attached to the top of my router table for infeed support.  I rolled the table in front of the TS and locked it down with those on top.  Not perfect, but pretty good.  The rollers and a couple other minor things got lost in a move a few years ago and I never replaced them.  I'm probably going to replace them with thesehttp://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5328 and make some wooden runners.  I'll probably still use my router table as the base though since it is a good size at 30"x4'.  I just built a 4' square outfeed table also.
I bought the ATF saw not long after the move and have been using it since.  Even though I've gotten to the point where I have jigs and it works great, it's still pretty slow when doing repetitive operations.  Plus, I still wind up balancing my way through the TS occasionally (ie torsion box).
I understand fidelfs space issues as well.  My TS isn't going anywhere soon.  It requires infeed and outfeed no matter if I ever put a piece of plywood through it.  I also need a 4x8 area for my cutting table.  I have an area I use, but it sure makes the shop tight when it's deployed.  I think it'll be worth $40 to have the option of either method.

 

[Dave Rudy]

I think we're all trying to solve the wrong problem for Fidelfs....

He's got an expensive tablesaw, he put a lot of money into it, planning on getting years of use out of it.

Just because we would do things a certain way does not mean everyone has to. Every post here has valid points, none of them are solving Fidelfs problem. we are (well, I was, and you guys are) going in the wrong direction. Think about it.

Agreed, after the OP's last post.  I didn't understand exactly what was being discussed.  Ultimately, what makes this forum work so well is that we can share information and perspectives without telling each other what to do.  Apologies Fidel to the extent that I stepped over that line.

Dave

 

[woodshopdemos]

pardon me, I stopped reading this thread entries ago. I will add only that  I sold my Unisaw and now use the TS55 or TS75 ALL the time.