Need some advice regarding a sticky situation.

rnt80

rnt80

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Mar 30, 2008
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Last night at our homecoming game one of our school student trainers almost ran over our youngest (5 yrs. old) with a golf cart as he was running around on the track.  We should've been watching him more closely and he should've been more aware but the student was flying in the cart.  As my wife went to get our son the trainer made the "what are you doing?!?!" facial expression/jesture to our five year old and then drove off.  The next time the trainer came by my wife flagged her down and told her that she was going too fast and would she please slow down (my wife wasn't the only parent that was worried about the speed issue).  The trainer's response was that she wasn't going fast.  My wife told her that she wasn't the only parent that noticed her speed and asked her again to slow down.  The trainer responded with "Okay, but I wasn't going fast."  I wasn't there for the conversation but my wife relayed all of this to me.  At that point I was annoyed, partially because of how she treated my wife but also because it was a former student of mine.  The next time the trainer drove by (slightly slower) I flagged her down and calmly (I've got the patience of a saint...I work with 16 yr old kids all day) asked her why she was talking back to an adult.  Understandably she was defensive and started to explain that she's got people yelling at her from all angles, players that are hurt that she was supposed to attend to, etc.  I told her it had nothing to do with any of that.  My concern was that she represented our school and that when an adult, regardless of the fact that it was my wife, makes a reasonable request of her that she should listen to that request, apologize (if necessary) and move on.  She was still really defensive and started to explain everything she had on her shoulders.  I reiterated what I had said which illicited the response "Okay.  Can you keep your kids off the track?"  I said absolutely.  At that point she drove off and was audibly mumbling things under her breath.  At that point I turned and said "You don't need to be talking back to me either.  I'll be talking to 'Bob' (her faculty supervisor) about this."  She drove off, stopped the cart and started sobbing.  My wife felt bad, I was annoyed.  I talked to my colleague (her surpervisor) later that night about all of this.  I apologized for making his trainer upset and explained that I wasn't so much concerned about her speed as it was her conduct. He was somewhat defensive (I'm sure he had a lot on his plate that night) but said that he would talk to her.
I know you only have my half of the story but I would like an outsiders perspective on all of this.  Part of me thinks I should've just let it alone after my wife spoke with her.  It wasn't a big deal until I got involved.  Did I go too far?
 
you were right, how would you feel if you said nothing and she hurt one of the kids
 
Of course you were right. I'm afraid I wouldn't have been quite as calm as you seem to have been.
One thing that strikes me here is that girl was under a lot of pressure. Pressure that perhaps she was not ready for & shouldn't have been put in.  Perhaps this is the reason her supervisor was defensive with you !

Like you said though, we have only heard half the story !!!

Woodguy
 
Right or wrong you deal with 16 year olds all day and expected any different response than what you got?

Please rethink. What did you expect her to say. Even if she was 100% sorry and knew she was wrong you know a 16 year old response is to automatically deny. Now I know I only have 7 kids, but I know that no matter what, the teens auto response, even my daughters who is the most responsible 16 year old put on earth, is to deny and seem rude to any adult. This is one of the reasons the driver broke down and cried. She knew she was wrong and was crying about that, not that she was being rude. As far as being polite and respectful, she does not get that she wasn't and will not until she is in her 20's. And even is she did she will not show it in her initial reactions to the situation. 16 year olds just don't, hence the delayed response. Not to mention she was probably somewhat concerned with you telling on her and crying somewhat do to that. Teens at that age may or may not  get it, but won't admit it to themselves until they have time to look back at the situations later and even then it may not get through. They may not admit their actions(rudeness etc) were wrong to others ever, especially adults. So many times the kids will come back to us and apologize the next day, teens need time, they are in the moment and defenses go up. Maybe next time the kid sees you they will let you know they are truly sorry, happens to me once a month.

You were right in your concerns for you child. You were wrong to let that kid on the track and to wonder and definitely wrong in expecting 16 year old to give you the response you thought was appropriate. Heck I know 40 year olds that would have acted just like the kid. I think her crying just shows she is a good kid and has feelings, people that don't care do not break down, I know, I have a niece that has no empathy at all and would never have cried in that situation.

You did what you did and its fine, she will probably drive better next time because of it and you voiced your concerns for your child's safety, what more can you do? Don't second guess your parental response, it's usually correct.  :)
 
I think your wife and you were right, right up to when you said "you don't need to be talking back to me..." With due respect, you don't know what she was saying under her breath, should could have been admonishing herself, or even someone else or the situation she found herself in. Given the situation and the heightened emotions it's perfectly natural for you to get wound up and for her to cry.
For the record, if I was driving a cart in that situation, I probably would have been going too fast as well, and I should know better. It difficult not to get swept up in all the emotion and excitement of these situations.
I hope it all gets smoothed out.

Tim
 
I've had a similar situation down here as well during sport activities at different fields and municipal playing fields.  One was with the local sheriff deputies driving carts and two with younger drivers on golf carts before, during and mostly after games.  Simply asking is always best but if nothing changes you have to go to the next in line and I agree with what you did.  One thing I found out is who is insuring the driver of the cart (motorized device)?  If something happens or gets hurt a law suite is generally not far behind these days.  Being a motorized device in a lot of cases roadway laws apply which would mean "Drivers License" to be legally operated.  Found that out from the Sheriff on municipal property.  Something to think about.
 
Thanks for the replies and the advice.  I agree with much of what you guys had to say.  I certainly think we should've said something but I also could've handled it better.
Dovetail65, I think I'll have to respectfully disagree with you.  You asked if I expected to get a different response than I did.  I certainly did expect a different response.  I work hard to treat my students with respect and expect that from them in return.  In all the years I've been teaching it has been my experience that my kids respond positively when I approach them with advice or a concern.  That was what I expected from this young lady.
Tim, you're right that I don't know what she said but I do know the girl and she wasn't admonishing herself.  With that said, as soon as I said "You don't need to be talking back to me either." I regretted the comment.
I sent an email to my colleague (the supervisor) this morning apologizing for making the night more hectic than it needed to be. 
 
I'm just throwing this out as Devil's Advocate. I don't know the layout of the facility, but if this is a playing field surrounded by the running track, isn't the running track and everything inside that area off-limits to normal spectators? As far as I have seen, that is usually considered part of the support area for the event going on at the time (such as the trainer, "gopher", or other support people). If you were within an area not otherwise open to spectators because you were faculty, then you have a higher level of responsibility for situational awareness than is expected from a spectator that must remain outside of the area.

I used to be involved with special events for years and had unlimited access to special areas of the event, sometime for required work and sometimes just for personal use (special treatment). Regardless of the reason for being in a restricted area, I knew that once I stepped past the public barricade, my head had to be on a swivel to stay out of the way of the people that were there for more critical reasons. I once did a rock concert and was sitting in a restricted area of the stands just watching the show. When I saw the control indicators on the light packs go dark, I sprinted (flew!!) through the back doors of the secured area to get to the power plant. A cop wasn't watching where he was going, stepped in front of me, and I knocked him on his tail without even slowing down (I had a wee bit of an adrenaline rush at the time [scared]). He picked himself up and came after me. When he realized what had happened, even he knew that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time; he paused for a minute, let his anger subside, and then walked away. (oh, he had a badge and a gun, and I was still a teenager at the time. So you can just imagine the huge grin on my face when I later realized what I had done. [big grin])

Obviously a school sporting event isn't as critical, because you don't necessarily have thousands of drunken fans rioting if something goes wrong, but the principles about restricted areas are the same. Forgive me for saying, but if you had a young child in a semi-restricted area, unless this was an area specifically available to families, the fault probably wasn't with the trainer's reaction to your wife's comments. If it wasn't a restricted area, the obviously your wife's comments and yours were spot-on.
 
rnt80 said:
Tim, you're right that I don't know what she said but I do know the girl and she wasn't admonishing herself.  With that said, as soon as I said "You don't need to be talking back to me either." I regretted the comment.
I sent an email to my colleague (the supervisor) this morning apologizing for making the night more hectic than it needed to be.   
Click to expand...

Ya, I kinda figured you knew her better than that.
I think you did the right thing anyway.
I don't have a daughter, (maybe I was lucky) so I am probably the last one to give advice. As an uncle to several college going nieces I have seen first hand that they can drive as aggressively as, well their fathers [big grin].
Tim
 
Well you did not treat her with respect from her viewpoint and you can not treat this like a classroom situation. You said you saw nothing that happened and it seems to me you basically reprimanded her in a negative way and she responded in kind.

ALL kids react differently to their parents then another adult. I am sure everyone that has kids hears how respectful their kids are from other parents when they sleep over, etc. And when I am told that I think yeah, they don't live with them. I am not sure if you have teenage daughters, but just wait and see and get back to me.  They may respect their teachers in a class setting(or act like it), but you just got a taste of what kids are like not surrounded by classroom walls. And you will  say the words someday, "do you speak to a teacher at your school like that". Or you will see your kid at the store talk to a Walmart worker in a rude way and be in disbelief. No teacher would ever think that my kids would act like this, they do, all kids do.

Girls are the absolute hardest to deal with and I think you just got a reality check, this girl was NOT in a school classroom mode when you talked to her. Teachers do not spend 16 hours a day for 20 off years with these kids. You may think you know these kids, you don't. You know of them at school where they are not their true selves. I am sure you are great with the kids, but from a standpoint of knowing how kids react I will stick to my guns on this, a stay at home dad for 5 of the 7 kids from day one. That's all the experience I can rely on.

I don't know this girl, but for me , in my perspective and experience as a dad and not as a teaching authority, she reacted just like I have seen 4 daughters and 3 sons act at certain points in their lives. Just saying, it's not surprising for me at all her response and maybe you just got your first taste and were taken off guard. Sounds like a normal teenage girl to me. We will  agree to disagree on this point.  :)
 
Dovetail, I've gotta say that I agree with pretty much everything you said in your last post.  We don't have any teenagers yet (our oldest is almost there) and I've already found myself saying "Do you talk to your teacher like that?"  :).  My point to her was that I wasn't talking to her as the father of the kid she almost hit, nor the husband of the woman she was rude to, rather as a member of the faculty at the school and that as long as she was working in some capacity for our school then she was representing it.  In that respect she was still within the confines of the classroom.  That's something that I know our school expects of all our athletes when they are at a competition, I don't think that changes for the support staff.  With that said, considering how she responded I think I could've told her I was the messiah and it wouldn't have mattered  :).  Again, thanks for the advice.  I certainly have to defer to you on the parenting experience.
 
given that she was on the support staff was it not her responsibility to see that there was a 5 year old in a dangerous place and return it to its parents.
 
Not really Alan.  My kid, my responsibility.  There are a lot of kids running around in that area on any given game night.
 
Yeah you are right, part of the school staff she needs to represent for sure.
 
Russell,

You didn't do anything wrong in reacting the way you did.  You don't need to to keep second guessing yourself.

Peter
 
Regardless of the inter-personal dynamics, any individual of any age, including cops, using a motorized device in a public space where there are children on the loose has an obligation to operate the motorized device such as to ensure the safety of all around.  Failure to do so exposes them to liability for the resulting accident(s).  Any responsible adult knows better.  One can't anticipate that a teenager will have the degree of clear-thinking and assumed responsibility that an adult will have, and the burden of responsibility for appropriate instruction falls on the kid's adult supervision.  I think it's appropriate to correct a kid in such circumstances, and to contact the kid's supervisor to alert the supervisor that a course correction is in order.  Then, too, the parents of any child have an enhanced obligation to exercise due caution for their kids benefit when out in public spaces.  In my home area and time, it wasn't unusual or considered inappropriate for an adult that saw a kid acting irresponsibly to let the kid know about it in proportion to the misdeed, then pick up the phone and call the kid's parents to let them know about it, and the kid heard about it again when they got home, if not sooner.  Political correctness has seemingly pushed the exercise of personal responsibility and accountability into the back seat.  Not a good thing IMESHO. 
 
My wife just told me at football games NONE of the students are allowed to go near let alone operate the carts. Probably the way to go from the schools liability standpoint. Thinking about it, no kid should be driving those and I would think 21 or older should be the min age.
 
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