Sparktrician
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- Joined
- Dec 4, 2009
- Messages
- 4,607
Scott B. said:Sparktrician said:Scott,
In this video you used a Graco cordless sprayer. How would you stack up this Graco with, say, the Apollo 1050VR? Cordless clearly has advantages in maneuverability, but disadvantages in the area of battery life. Which HVLP unit currently available comes closest to the idealized "one size fits all" model, or could be described as the best all-around HVLP unit for those that can not justify or afford more than one, both for fine finishes as well as general wall finishes, using latex at the least viscous end of things?
Good question, Sparktrician. First off, just to be clear, all of the Proshots are airless in nature. They are oft confused with HVLP because they run on an attached quart cup. By virtue of being airless, (compared to HVLP), the PS is running at significantly higher pressure. The bottom of the power band on the unit in the video might be 500 psi (fluid pressure) versus about 6 psi (air) on an HVLP with the same product. Kind of apples and oranges on paper, but in reality, here is the deal. The HVLP is technically the finer, more precision atomized fan. Airless tend to "shear" product, while HVLP creates tidy little droplets. That said, with correct technique, I can get very similar results with both machines in the same product, mostly because I know how to adapt technique for the machine in my hand.
For instance, a well respected artisan, The Wood Whisperer, a month or so ago had an admittedly nightmarish experience using a cordless for the first time, and trying to do so with the same technique he would use with his Fuji HVLP. Recipe for disaster. Because the PS is dispensing fluid at such a higher rate, the technique is completely different, in terms of pace and distance from target.
The "one size fits all" question is also a good question and I (and many other users) get it alot about sanders: which one can do it all? Same question with sprayers, and the answer is the same: "all of what?"
It depends on the most common types of work you do. If you work in a shop and spray one piece of furniture at a time, one quart at a time, to a high fine finish standard, I will take a good HVLP all day long.
If you also go out in the field (like me), and spray spindle rail systems on decks, bulkheads, garage doors and everything else that you don't want to spend time brushing, then a cordless is worth its weight in gold, and will beat an HVLP across the board at every turn.
The cordless handhelds are convenience tools. A good HVLP, like the Apollo or the Graco 9.5, is a more sophisticated "bread winner" tool.
Sorry to be circuitous in my answer, but if you tell me what type of finishing you do most often, I can answer more specifically about the choice between the two technologies.
Very good questions.
Edit: just noticed the part of your question about general wall finishes, etc. Neither is particularly adroit in that realm, because both are limited to quart cup capacity, which is impractical on any large scale, like walls. The exception is that we do occasionally use a Proshot to cut in corners on new drywall. Way faster than brushing.
Also, in the very low viscosity range, a good HVLP will be more efficient than an airless handheld. The handhelds are more like generalists that are capable across a broad range, while the HVLP is more like a specialist in that bottom end range of viscosity. I know, Bader or someone is going to remind me that I do spray unthinned latex primer and paint in 5 stage HVLP's. But if that was the sole discipline, I would sooner grab a ProShot. It would get done faster.
Scott,
Thanks very much for the thoughtful input. It's very much appreciated.
Scott B. said:Wooden Skye said:Scott
I personally think a lot of problems are from improper setup and technique, and probably a lot more, like thinning or as you mentioned in the video when to sand or not to sand. It is also my opinion that it is easy to get overloaded with info or techniques from books or videos and you sort of get paralyzed when it is time to do the job. This "expert says this, this other expert says that". Maybe a video/web seminar would only add to mine or others confusion, but seeing your work and how you tend to break it down to more lay men's terms may make for interesting learning, and your use of multiple types of finishes would probably serve multiple audiences.
Bryan
WS
The simplest way to think about finishing is this: product drives the process. Product selection is the first consideration for any project.
What finish am I going to put on?
Then it becomes a question of:
How will I apply it?
Which goes deeper into:
What will my process be?
Product selection comes first, and that drives everything else. So, this means you need to know product. Up until about 6 years ago, this was pretty easy because there was pretty much a long standing status quo. Then, all products started changing, which meant that everything else changes too...the brushes, rollers, abrasives, sprayers, tips, etc. It all follows the paint.
Thats what makes it so confusing riight now. You go searching the internet for finish info, and most of what is out there is very outdated, no longer really relevant to today's world of finishes. Some of it was even written by good, knowledgeable, well-meaning people at the time, but it is totally 5 minutes ago.
Some other stuff that you will find, the old Learn to Finish Like a Professional Finisher type of stuff...alot of that was put out by people who were not professional finishers. So, that gets pretty confusing. I check out alot of what is out there and it is depressing. Just alot of bad info put out by people who in some cases have tremendous followings. More harm than good, in a hurry.
That's why with this Graco instructional series, its not about sprayers per se. The sprayer is the delivery method, which is realistic, but the instructional content is on how to finish projects, with a particular emphasis on breaking down process to make it easier. This first round, which was months in planning, we decided to do cordless sprayers in stain/clear and primer/paint grade small projects. I think you will see the content become increasingly more advanced and the projects successively larger, but the emphasis will be consistent.
I do think at some point I'd like to take the time to compile some sort of a downloadable guide, maybe even an ebook, that compiles all in one place, the different machine settings and tip selections for all the different sprayer technologies across the different product viscosities, with explanation and visuals. That would be a fun project, and probably a good way to create resource that would help people get out of the gate to finishing. One of these days.
Thanks for the thought provoking suggestions.
Please make it soon!!! Einstein's theory on knowledge seems to be more prevalent here with me. "The more you know, the more you know that you DON'T know."
Thanks again for your thoughtful responses.