Hipplewm
Member
Yeah, i was already iffy at $400, def not for $500 plus tax
New Dominos Coming to North America
- Thread starter peter halle
- Start date
NewWoodWorkerVA
Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2023
- Messages
- 24
Would be very useful and enticing at that price. I saw the Peter Millard video as well but would like for additional confirmation. Hard to imagine they'd re-engineer that intentionally (not intentionally causing alignment issues so they can't be inter-changed, but why redesign it at all?). Hopefully that comes out soon.
Hipplewm
Member
The base of the oscilating unit that holds the pegs that go into the guide are the same and all parts below that part including theparts that hold the bit are all the same, so i can't imagine a world where if the parts between the pegs and the bit are the same that something that precise wouldn't line up....The lid on the oscilating unit is different, and 3 parts are different, but it looks like it may just be the different colored piece you lift to pull the body from the guide plate.
not to mention the engineering to produce a new part etc for a machine that doesn't need any help in that area.
Hipplewm
Member
Peter Millar did a video on it a few months ago and it fit right on and worked fine, except it may have been off enough that one piece he had to use the medium holes to get everything lined up perfect
That could have just been getting used to the new fence as much as being off about 1/32"
No offense to chat GPT but we have a video of it working......
Dusty also did a breakdown...
That could have just been getting used to the new fence as much as being off about 1/32"
No offense to chat GPT but we have a video of it working......
Dusty also did a breakdown...
mino
Member
Until someone else tries the new base with the old machine and reports their finding (or Festool has an official advice on it, AI seems to say the new base is incompatible with the old model:
Please, folks. Please!
Lets not spam this forum with AI slop.
/on merit, making an exception/
As usual, the AI statement is using a non-native-language "directly interchangeable" phrase .. what that phrase means - in machine speak - that it is not functionally identical. Duh. Sure it is not. That why you want the bases swapped.
No. You cannot "insult" an
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AI is a helpful tool until and unless it's proven wrong. Please, folks, please continue using AI, which is improving day by day, as an aid, but not as the only factor to arrive at a decision or conclusion.
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Am I missing something? The vid doesn't show the new base used with the old model?
mino
Member
I just just showed you above how it fooled you without you noticing. That was not an accident. It is designed to fool you so you keep "interacting" with it.
Above is an advice from someone who knows the tech behind the current gen "AI", i.e. the LLM-based stuff, including what agentic AI actually means.
I rest my case beyond this as this is way too much OT.
While the current language-based AI does have its limitations, which are or should be known to frequent users, your call for discouraging its use is overblown. AI isn't designed to fool anyone; it is just a tool with its constraints. If you are someone who says they know the tech behind, you should know that even more and better. But it's fine if you want to avoid AI because you know it well enough. Use of AI is a choice.
Hipplewm
Member
Hipplewm
Member
Mind you, he never calibrated the plastic window, he just swapped and went - i wish he would have done both sides with the new fence, calibrated and done it again.
Festool's only issue with it is calibration, and that is probably 99.99% marketing BS and CYA. I would think swapping one guide between 2 machines would be iffy, but 2 guides on the same machine should be fine, as long as both sides of a joint were don't with the same guide - until you could prove to yourself your guides were calibrated well enough to be interchangeable
Also, he starts the actual vertical plunges with "I am going to break the habit of a lifetime" by cutting the first one on the smallest setting - so again, we only know what he shows on camera...
I am 100% convinced they are 100% interchangeable, but if you swap between 2 cutters you may have to reclibrate - but 2 guide plates on the same machine will be absolutely fine....
Festool's only issue with it is calibration, and that is probably 99.99% marketing BS and CYA. I would think swapping one guide between 2 machines would be iffy, but 2 guides on the same machine should be fine, as long as both sides of a joint were don't with the same guide - until you could prove to yourself your guides were calibrated well enough to be interchangeable
Also, he starts the actual vertical plunges with "I am going to break the habit of a lifetime" by cutting the first one on the smallest setting - so again, we only know what he shows on camera...
I am 100% convinced they are 100% interchangeable, but if you swap between 2 cutters you may have to reclibrate - but 2 guide plates on the same machine will be absolutely fine....
mino
Member
I respect you. I respect you greatly for your comments and experience as a woodworker and have learned a lot from them myself.
But.
No offense intended, you are way outside your field here. This is 'my turf'.
I am not discouraging its use. I am trying to:
- discourage members posting misleading AI slop, as you did here /whatever the poster's intention which I am confident yours was honourable/
- help you understand how it fooled you - it abused your lack of "thinking like a computer" to misdirect you by using a sophist language form
- avoid a long-winded OT post here as I can go on for an hour plus, explaining in detail the intricacies what was wrong with the response you got, why you got it, how it may be possible to reduce the likelihood of such a response, and - most pertinently - on why fully avoiding such misleading responses from an LLM-based "AI" is impossible, no matter how good your "prompt-fu" is.
I will endear to correct your statement with the one folks working with LLM-based AI are very familiar with:
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Yes. It is. ChatGPT specifically.
OpenAI, the company, is *actively* trying to hook you up by tuning the model to tell you what you want to hear, to psychologically manipulate you to make you like it - it works. They have teams of psychologists addressing this - all the big AI guys do.
In the IT circles there is a discussion on how Claude and /specifically/ Grok vendors are intentionally limiting the threshold for "halucinations" /i.e. making stuff up/ at the cost of the AI providing a lot more "I do not know" answers. ALL this stuff is configurable by the companies in the algorithm and ChatGPT specifically is tuned to prefer a made-up answer ahead of an "I do not know" response as a business decision. Yes. It is evil. Yes it makes them money. Drug dealers tend to not care - especially when it is not even illegal. Yes *all* models make stuff up, that is the nature of the LLM statistical modelling concept. OK, I am way beyond a reasonably short note here ..
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onocoffee
Member
Well, that's certainly NOT worth the expense!
I've seen and toyed with the R at my local Woodcraft. The upgraded fence has a nice feel and I like the new posts for vertical adjustment, but five hundred dollars? I can live with my Q.
This should have been their 100th Anniversary Domino.
Hipplewm
Member
I did this hack a few years ago and it has made a world of difference - definitely makes it less appealing for the new fence - although the main thing i want is the extra pair of stops from the pins.
I wasn't even using ChatGPT (though I do use it now and then).
As a layman (no one needs to be an AI technocrat in order to be aware of its risks or to be able to use it productively), we use AI to help us in our lives and not to dictate us lives. If you go back and read my first sentence before my AI comment, you'll recognize that I was providing the AI info. with a caveat.
I'm aware of the hallucinations and other criticisms of AI and the addictive nature of not only models but also social media such as Instagram, etc. You state your case, and I'll urge anyone who is skeptical of AI or unfamiliar with AI not to let fear take away a powerful and useful tool. I still know a couple of guys (in their 60s and 70s) who, as of today, still do not own and use computers as well as smartphones. Their lives stay analog.
The built-in knobs with the DF500 can be adjusted (loosen the screw on the knob handle, pull the handle outward and reposition it) for the desired purchase. There's no need to buy any knobs to achieve a firm grip of the fence. The so-called fence drift happened only to the model of the early years.
Hipplewm
Member
You are correct, but that takes a tool - doing that hack cost about $3 and you don't need a tool, you can just use the handle by itself - the best part is the handle is never in your way or sticking out, because after tightening, you can turn it so it is completely behind the fence and not sticking out the side.
That sounds promising for those who want the new fence (for the indexing pins) on their old model. It must be just a matter of time when someone makes the plunge and tries the new fence and tells us a definite answer on the interchangeability,
Michael Kellough
Member
But you only need to do it once (reposition the oem handle), and you have to use the same tool to replace the oem handle.
