New Festool jigsaw model?

[jeffinsgf]

Oh, Festool, PLEASE do not go down this road that all the other power tool companies have followed.  We really do not need every tool we own to be cordless, nor do we need to be tied to a supplier for life just to keep your tool functional. 

 

[woodguy7]

I did post a few months ago that festool were developing a cordless jigsaw. Not something i will be interested in.

Woodguy

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Maybe these will be better.

I have never been happy with any battery powered tool, besides a drill.

Recip. saws suck, circular saws suck, and the jigsaws have always sucked.

Maybe it is a brushless jigsaw??

 

[JohnDistai]

I went to the local Woodcraft to try the barrel grip jigsaw.  The guy helping me said "with the barrel grip, we prefer to use it 'European style' ".  He then placed the jigsaw upside down under the piece and started cutting, and did a pretty good job of following the line.  I tried the regular way and couldn't see well enough to follow the line.  I had to hold it upside down in order to follow the line.  I wasn't too impressed.

I'm glad I read these posts.  I was thinking of getting rid of my perfectly good Bosch, but now I won't.

 

[PaulMarcel]

I'm a little late on this thread... Jeff asked if anyone uses the indicator on the chip guard to guide the saw.  I find that I use that -a-lot-.  Visibility is a problem, but I find that I can follow the line, even when cutting circles, very well using the indicator.  To quote my plumber neighbor who needed me to cut a large diameter plywood insert, "geez, you've done that before..."; actually, it was the first (of several..) circles I did with the Trion using the indicator.  Have to admit I was impressed it was dead on the line (and I didn't use sidewalk chalk!)

 

[jeffinsgf]

Paul,

Thanks very much for that reply.  I put one in my saw the other day.  I'm looking forward to the next use!

By the way, the trammel point attachment for the Trion works like a champ, if you're going to be doing a lot of circles.

 

[harry_]

Although I am not ready to go `Festool cordless` at this time, I would be interested in a cordless jig. I have both a Bosch corded & cordless. I probably use my cordless 10:1 my corded. I love my cordless for stooling out windows. One less tool on a leash. The hose for the air guns is leash enough.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Oh, Festool, PLEASE do not go down this road that all the other power tool companies have followed.  We really do not need every tool we own to be cordless, nor do we need to be tied to a supplier for life just to keep your tool functional. 

Jeff, I agree with you here. I find most cordless tools to be gimmicky and trendy. Only a small percentage of users need cordless tools and few tools benefit from being cordless. I think it's a shame the tool industry wastes so much money developing all these cordless tools. We'd be much farther ahead if they spent their money on building quality (corded) tools instead. My 2 cents, YMMV.

 

[richard.selwyn]

I was not very hot on the idea of cordless stuff - especially as I nearly always use a vacuum - especially when working on site - but I just bought the Bosch copy of the Fein supercut and have been using it today.  It was just so much easier than getting out the Fein and pugging it in (plus it came in a systainer which the Fein didn't)  It isn't as good as the Fein for sure, but is quite handy - so maybe I'd be tempted by a cordless jigsaw.
I prefer my Bosch to the Trion, but I do use the Trion upside down a lot and get reasonable results - its the same problem - the Bosch isn't in a systainer so the Trion gets to go on site.

Richard, freezing his **** off in N. France.

 

[greg mann]

I agree about over-application of cordless technology but a jigsaw with a lightweight LiIon battery might have its place. A big NiCad battery necessary to last long enough would ruin the balance of a jigsaw. Many cuts with a jigsaw are of very short duration so the latest generation of batteries should give pretty good runtime. Cutting access holes and such in an attic would be nice without a cord.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Oh, Festool, PLEASE do not go down this road that all the other power tool companies have followed.  We really do not need every tool we own to be cordless, nor do we need to be tied to a supplier for life just to keep your tool functional. 

Jeff, I agree with you here. I find most cordless tools to be gimmicky and trendy. Only a small percentage of users need cordless tools and few tools benefit from being cordless. I think it's a shame the tool industry wastes so much money developing all these cordless tools. We'd be much farther ahead if they spent their money on building quality (corded) tools instead. My 2 cents, YMMV.

Brice, I completely disagree with about every word you said there. If it wasn't for this new cordless technology, a lot of tool development was dead. They knew how to make quality corded tools 30 years ago already. The technology hasn't changed much since then, at least not from the user's point of view. Most recent changes are on the inside of tools where manufacturers find cheaper materials to get the same results or make electrical components more efficient. The only big changes on corded power tools I can think of are the addition of a speed dial and the tools becoming a lot lighter by switching more and more to aluminum and plastic instead of steel.

I also disagree on the idea that cordless tools are for a very tiny percentage of the people. Have a look at the cordless drill already. It almost completely replaced the corded drill in most applications. 30 years ago, DIY wasn't something that really had any meaning, and today almost everybody is a DIY person in some way and in almost every household you can find a cordless drill. Cordless technology has a huge impact on the ease of use of a tool and therefor lowers the threshold to use it. Most professionals even own quite a few pieces just so they don't have to switch bits in the mean time. You know what I'm talking about.

And why should the quality be any less with a cordless tool? Because the only difference between corded and cordless is the fact that you have to use less powerful motors. And that you have to find a place to mount a heavy battery. But qualitatively speaking, all parts can be produced to the same quality standards as corded tools. The only limit to cordless technology is the battery. And we've gone a big step upward already with the use of LiIon instead of NiCd. And it would be wrong to consider the current generation of cordless tools as the end because the whole technology exists just a good 20 years and is still heavily in development. New battery technologies will arise and so will new motor technologies. I wouldn't be surprised if in 40 years a battery the size of a wrist watch would outperform today's 3,0ah 36v batteries. But it has to start somewhere.

And then there's the ease of use of not being attached to anything. You can walk out the door and take the tool wherever you want and do your work. That's a huge benefit, and it is not a benefit that's only appreciated by a 'small percentage of users'. Only a couple of weeks ago I had to disassemble all kind of structures made by some guys who set up an illegal weed plantation in one of my uncle's buildings. After the police found out and raided the building the electricity was cut off by the electrical company. I had to work with my jigsaw to cut a lot of stuff up, but I had to get electricity from a neighbour 50 meters away so I had to work with a couple of extension cords. And I had to quit when he closed at 5 pm while I am used to keep on working the entire evening. I would have loved my jigsaw to be cordless then.

Finally I'd like to say there's a lot of new inventions coming up through the development of cordless tools. For instance, I'm not so sure there would have been a Centrotec system right now if it wasn't for Festool's effort to make their cordless drills as small and light as possible. Really, going cordless is the best development in years for power tools.

 

[justinmcf]

well said alex!

i am sure if you ask the big tool companies such as makita, bosch, milwaukee and dewalt what has been a turning point for them. they would surely agree that the li-ion cordless tool range has transformed the power tool market.

only a few years ago, cordless tools were not so popular. but the lithium ion technology changed that overnight.
every man and his dog carries 2, 3, 4 and 6 piece kits in their tool boxes these days.

i personally love the cordless tools. i use them within their limits and they save me time and money on a daily basis.
but, if you use them outside of their limits, then i agree with brice, they can appear gimmicky and loose their appeal very quickly.

i have the protool cordless drill and love it. i am holding out for protool to add a lot more tools to their cordless range. lets hope we dont have to wait too long. or else i will forced to buy from the other big name brands.......

regards, justin

 

[Brice Burrell]

Alex and Justin, I don't believe I made my point very clearly. I'm not suggesting battery power tools have no value. I believe the cordless drill has made an enormous impact on the building industry. However, for other larger tools the technology is up to the task, yet.

....i am sure if you ask the big tool companies such as makita, bosch, milwaukee and dewalt what has been a turning point for them. they would surely agree that the li-ion cordless tool range has transformed the power tool market......

I agree with this statement, but I view it very differently than I think you do. The tool industry is selling a false illusion of convenience for the cordless saw or hammer drill. Don't get me wrong, there are times the benefits of the cordless saw outweighs the drawbacks. The circumstances that one actually needs a cordless saw are rare to non-existent for the average user. 95% (or more) of the time the user would be better served with a corded tool.

The tool industry has marketed a perceived value of cordless tool that doesn't live it's actual usefulness. Larger cordless powers are underpowered, made with light weight materials that don't hold up well to hard use, and they have very short run times. They've marketed these tools this way for their benefit only. They want you to buy a cordless tool and it 3-5 years buy another one because the battery technology has improved, or because your batteries are dead. You'd never think do that with your corded tools. Furthermore, why do they sell you two batteries for an entire tool set, because they want to sell you extra batteries for an exorbitant price. It's largely a gimmick to me.

I feel there is an enormous amount of money spent on marketing tools we don't need. Money that could be spent producing quality built tools instead of reducing the quality to increase their bottom line.         

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Every single cordless sawzall or circular saw I have ever used, has been gutless.

With the rare exception of hanging off the end of a ladder or over the edge of a roof, I can't see the value of a cordless saw.

They have poor run times, they are not nearly as beefy as their corded counter part.

I can't really think of a reason I would even need a cordless jigsaw.

The only cordless tool I use is my C-12.  If I need more of a drill I get out the 90 degree Milwaukee.

I am sorry but almost all cordless saws are a joke.

 

[score0matic]

This is a great thread.
In the last couple of months I use my trion more than any saw.  Let me say that the barrel grip is the key, using it upside down  makes the saw so handy for cutting exterior window trim.  I will say that it has changed the way i work, not needing to walk anywhere to make the cut saves 10min per window alone.
I wish i could find a cordless barrelgrip jigsaw for my window kit.  i am even thinking of picking up a dewalt cordless and modifying it,  I picked up a new DeWalt 18 ga cordless trim gun just for windows  (love it, was totally worth the $298.)  No more hoses/ compressor/ cords to set up and put away, it is easy to take up a ladder, don't have to clean up the hose if it is muddy.

Cordless DEFENATLY has its place.  When my guys installed 50.000 sf of laminate flooring i picked up a couple Roybi cordless saws because they were cheap and almost all plastic  they worked so awesome, SO much faster that anything else.  Besides there is always more powerful batteries,  I first seen a 36 v Hilti SDS used by a guy installing precast parking lot stops cordless made alot of sense to me there. 

Craig

 

[Frank Pellow]

Alex and Justin, I don't believe I made my point very clearly. I'm not suggesting battery power tools have no value. I believe the cordless drill has made an enormous impact on the building industry. However, for other larger tools the technology is up to the task, yet.

....i am sure if you ask the big tool companies such as makita, bosch, milwaukee and dewalt what has been a turning point for them. they would surely agree that the li-ion cordless tool range has transformed the power tool market......

I agree with this statement, but I view it very differently than I think you do. The tool industry is selling a false illusion of convenience for the cordless saw or hammer drill. Don't get me wrong, there are times the benefits of the cordless saw outweighs the drawbacks. The circumstances that one actually needs a cordless saw are rare to non-existent for the average user. 95% (or more) of the time the user would be better served with a corded tool.

The tool industry has marketed a perceived value of cordless tool that doesn't live it's actual usefulness. Larger cordless powers are underpowered, made with light weight materials that don't hold up well to hard use, and they have very short run times. They've marketed these tools this way for their benefit only. They want you to buy a cordless tool and it 3-5 years buy another one because the battery technology has improved, or because your batteries are dead. You'd never think do that with your corded tools. Furthermore, why do they sell you two batteries for an entire tool set, because they want to sell you extra batteries for an exorbitant price. It's largely a gimmick to me.

I feel there is an enormous amount of money spent on marketing tools we don't need. Money that could be spent producing quality built tools instead of reducing the quality to increase their bottom line.         

I'm with you on this Brice! 

 

[Memphis Larry]

I picked up a 36v Dewalt 4 tool set a couple of years ago.  Has a full size circular saw.  This has been a great tool for me.  Plenty of power to cut 2X lumber and not too heavy.  Just keep a spare battery handy.  Also, my Bosch 24v cordless jigsaw does a great job.

 

[harry_]

I think we need to keep in mind what cordless tools are or better yet what they are not,.... hand tools.

When I am trimming out a new house, I keep my cordless circular saw near my stock pile. That way I can do quick cuts to rough length as opposed to trying to weave a 16 footer through the house to where I am set up or feed it through the second storey window when I only needed 4 feet to begin with. It is made to replace a hand saw, not replace a corded saw. They were not made with the intention of using it to frame a house. Could be done. Could be done with a hand saw too.. In fact, I heard that once upon a time........

Sometimes I need to hack on something and the right tool for the job is a sawzall, but I only need to make a single two minute cut. Cordless is the way. Do I want to deal with 10 minutes of extension cord for 2 minutes of cutting? Of course not. Nor would I want to use a cordless sawzall for a full days worth of demo work.

My average cut with a jigsaw is under 5 inches in either mdf, poplar or pine 3/4 of an inch thick. I can get my jigsaw to make these cuts with reasonable accuracy. Sometimes dozens in a day. However, it is not the tool I would want to use to get fancy on 2 or 3 inches of maple. Again, wrong tool for the job.

Cordless planer..... it comes out of the bag from time to time. generally I prefer my hand plane. I don't own a corded one yet

Are people actually expecting a cordless circular saw to be able to do the same amount of work as a 2.5HP circular saw......... all day long?  C`mon, let's be serious.

Without a doubt my cordless drill gets the lion's share of my cordless workout but I have never counted just how many of what screw it will drive. I do know it will drive plenty. I know that my circular saw will cut dozens of 2 x stock.

As Brice said

The tool industry is selling a false illusion of convenience for the cordless saw or hammer drill.

I think this is true if you think that you are going to go all day long on cordless tools (with exception of drill). However the convenience is unparalleled for smaller tasks, which is what I think they are selling.

 

[Inner10]

Oh, Festool, PLEASE do not go down this road that all the other power tool companies have followed.  We really do not need every tool we own to be cordless, nor do we need to be tied to a supplier for life just to keep your tool functional.

Do you work outside a shop? In environments where power is limited and cords are incredibly awkward? How about jobs that do not require constant repetitive use of one specific tool?

I would LOVE to see a high-end company like Festool start a line of exceptional quality cordless tools...I would actually benefit from those more then their current line of tools.

I think it's a shame the tool industry wastes so much money developing all these cordless tools. We'd be much farther ahead if they spent their money on building quality (corded) tools instead. My 2 cents, YMMV.

Cordless tool development probably has a positive impact of corded tools as well.  It is when companies stop venturing out of the ordinary that development grinds to a halt.

Brice, I completely disagree with about every word you said there

Alex...I agree with every point you made there, very good post, thank you.

I no longer spend anytime in a shop unless I'm scabbing together prototypes or testing driving controllers or motorized arms/lifts.  All my time is spend on job sites in  preconstruction, renos and finished homes...alot of which are in condo units and commercial buildings.  I'm not going to state the obvious advantages of cordless tools again, but I couldn't live without them.  

I find that cordless tools are not a lifetime investment and understand the perspective of those who are against them in that respect, I fully expect to replace my 1200 dollar cordless hammer drill and 600 dollar drill/impact within the next 2 years.  This is merely the cost of doing business and I understand it when making my purchase.

I can't really think of a reason I would even need a cordless jigsaw.

If there isn't a place to plug it in?  Hehehe, one day you will come around...(the day Festool releases one [tongue])

 

[family]

Good post Alex. After being on both sides of the cord and cordless issues I am able to offer this. I was a licensed contractor for years and for the day to day operations at the job site i can see the stance Brice makes for the corded versions. In no way can the cordless fulfill the needs for the on site building contractor and his demands he needs to use his tools for. I offer this statement for the following reasons. Cordless tools cannot stand the all day demands for a job of framing, sheeting or flooring at a building site. These are continuous use jobs the contractor has needs all day and every day.  I don't think they would have enough charged batteries and the rigid continuous power demands to fulfill this requirement with battery tools. On the other side for the last 11 years I have managed the Maintenance Departments for large manufacturing facilities where the cordless tools are very valuable. In this world the corded tools are not used very much and mostly in shop conditions. Cordless tools are used inside of large A/C units, up on the roofs of 255,000 to 500.000 square ft. facilities, up in the ceiling areas of these plants. Corded tools in these jobs would be almost impossible and time consuming to find power supplies and cords to accommodate the demands. Maintenance Technicians are on the go in this environment and need the tools and convenience to follow with him. His job is tightening, repairing and patching to keep the facility up and running and his time is money for the facility. I think we have a world where both cord and cordless tools have a place and the tool makers know this and the different contractors and technicians appreciate the fact they do. Cord or cordless, it depends what world you need it for as to how valuable it is to you. As consumers lets demand quality from the toolmakers in both.