New Festool Tool Due Out Soon - Planex

[jonny round boy]

Just got back from my Festool dealer, and the Festool rep was there with a BRAND NEW TOOL that's due out in *I think* October in the UK & Europe. And it's one HELL of a beast!!! Before he got it out he described it as looking like something out of 'Alien', and he was not wrong.

I did ask the rep if I could take some pictures of it to post on here, but he said no  so my description will have to suffice for now.

It comes in the larger of the two maxi-systainers, and it's a drywall sander. It comes in 3 sections - the 'head' unit, which is a approx. 10" random orbit sanding disk, powered by an attached motor which is extremely small put very powerful. The disk is completely surrounded by a circular brush (like on the RAS sanders), though it looked like a section of this ring (about a 1/3rd) could be removed for sanding right into corners. This is connected via a universal joint and a short section of flexi hose to the arm, which has a 'quick-fix' electrical/mechanical connector on the end. This connector links it to the second section:

The second section is the 'Handle', which has all the controls on it - the on/off switch, speed control, and a control which alters the amount of suction from the vacuum. It is connected via a standard plug-it cord & hose port.

The third section is an extension piece, which can be fitted between the two to lengthen the handle. These can be used in multiples for sanding high ceilings.

Like I said, it's described as a drywall joint sander, and can be used to sand down joints on walls & ceilings, though it can also be used as a floor sander, and to sand concrete, too.

Because plaster/concrete dust is very agressive, it CAN'T be used with standard CT extractors - it's designed to be used with a self-cleaning SRM extractor (he did demo it using a CT22, but said that prolonged use would damage the CT. Also the extraction rate on the CT isn't really sufficient).

All this is from memory, so may not be 100% accurate, but I think he said it would be out here sometime in October, and it would be around ?1300 (presumably ex-VAT!) for the sander & SRM combined. The part number for the sander is LHS255, and it's called 'Planex'.

edit: just done a search, and found a picture of one on the German eBay site.

edit 2: There seems to be some confusion as to wether the p/no is LHS255, or LHS225 (that eBay listing shows both!).

Edit 3: The question marks above should be pound signs (GBP), but for some reason they've changed!

 

[jonny round boy]

Found some better pictures now:

Opening the Maxi systainer:
[attachimg=1]

The 'Alien'-like head unit:
[attachimg=2]

The three sections:
[attachimg=3]

 

[Matthew Schenker]

jonny round boy,
This is interesting, but I have to admit I'm a bit confused.  Need to get more information on this.  From your photos, it does look like an alien!
Thanks for the scouting report.
Matthew

 

[Dan Clark]

Jonny,

Since I'm in the drywalling stage of my master bathroom remodel, I've been reading up about the process.  After you mud drywall, it needs to be sanded.  Most drywallers hate that part of the job.

I have a couple of inexpensive hand sanders with dust collection.  Neither works well.  I think it's because the suction draws the sander down to the surface and makes it difficult to move.  I've mostly given up on the idea and will use a round, pole sander with no dust collection for the final sanding.  It's messy, so I'll just wear a dust mask and clean up afterwards.   

Some of the pro-drywallers use a Porter-Cable sander/vac combo for bigger jobs.  Here's the sander:http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-7800-Drywall-Sander-13-Foot/dp/B00002267Z and the vacuum:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...d_t=201&pf_rd_p=277661601&pf_rd_i=B00002267Z.  Apparently they work fairly well, but are a bit of a hassle to use and only really useful for bigger jobs.

It would be interesting to read reviews on the Festool sander. 

Dan.

 

[Trevor H]

I must say the planex looks like it would be a godsend for drywall sand / finishers everywhere! I use my rotex when i sand drywall. I try not to when i can avoid it, but it's sufficient for those days i don't feel like pole sanding. I just hate putting my rotex through all that work when it does such a great job on my floors! The planex sounds like it would also solve a lot of my tile issues. I could rip tile off a slab and sand the remaining mortar back to a level surface and re-tile.

Hope we see the planex in the states someday!

 

[Matthew Schenker]

No wonder it looked mysterious to me.  I've never done drywall sanding.  With this new tool, maybe one day soon I'll have a reason to do so (although my circa 1915 house is all plaster).
Matthew

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Yep, Jonny, you'd better get a call in to Sigourey Weaver and tell her to bring her hand held "canon."  That's one scary looking piece of hose.

What is a SRM?  Sand Removal Machine? 

Could you use your CT 22 or other Festool vacuum if you inserted a small cyclone such as the Dust Deputy between the Planex and your vacuum? 

According to the manufacturer's instructions, I've used my Fein Turbo II vacuum with their disposable paper filter bags to collect plaster and drywall dust, without any apparent ill effects on the vacuum.  I find it hard to imagine why any Festool CT vacuum with its disposable paper bags and HEPA filters would risk damage to the vacuum machine, particularly if the mini-cylcone is also in the circuit to capture most of the drywall dust before it even reaches the vacuum machine.  Could you ask your dealer for his thoughts on this?

Dave R
.

 

[jonny round boy]

The SRM is a series of special extractors for explosive dust (paper dust, soot, certain plastics, powder coatings, aluminium or zinc dust). There were (according to my catalogue) 2 in the series, the SRM 212 LE-AS, and the SRM 312 LE-AS. The one that will be supplied with this sander appears to be a slightly different model, presumeably specially adapted in some way.

The rep said that it is 'self-cleaning', in that it has some mechanism for cleaning/unblocking it's own filters. Presumably the clogging of the filters would be what would cause the CT series to overheat? He also said that the CT's aren't powerful enough.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

OK.  I certainly admit I am stabbing much in the dark.  For the plaster and drywall sanding I have done, my tooling is producing dust at a much lower rate than the Planex "Alien" machine.  I've been using hand powered sanding screen holders (by Hyde tool, Massachusets, USA) and my RO 125.

Dave R.

 

[Eli]

I use 20 minute hotset and sponge. Hate to sand, too much mess, wait too long to paint.

 

[Tinker]

Before drywall (sheetrock) came out, i had done a little plastering.  I had just gotten into whitecoating when i started my own buisiness.  I did not have a large enough crew to follow thru with whitecoating and so quickly lost the knack.  Within about two years from starting my own masonry contracting biz, sheetrocking had become the new rage.  "It has everything that plaster has without the cracks."  Since I had done some plastering and still did a lot of stucko work, the tools were naturally familiar to me.  I watched a few good tapers on several jobs and learned a few of the shortcuts.  In those days, we had to mix the joint compound, and that was the biggest trick to learn.  Too much water and you made a lot of mess that needed sanding.  too little water and you felt like you were trying to move the walls as you applied. But you did not need to sand.  your arm would be so tired you couldn't sand.  not even open a can of beer  :-\  Anyhow, As winters were a time of slowdown for us masons, i did a lot of drywall taping from December into early March.  I had, as i said, done whitecoating and so the knack was there to accomplish a reasonable taping job without having to sand.  I (as with almost all experinced tapers) have never had to do much of any sanding.  Between coats, it was a very quick, and nearly dustless, job to go around the rooms with a wide taping knife and just scrape off any of the small ridges, especially in the corners. (sanding preents its own set of problems and sould be avoided if at all possible) At the corners, you had to be very careful not to cut into the tape with the knife.  The trick there was to not try to do both sides of any corner at the same time.  you do one side of any corner and go onto another corner, or another room.  Don't do the second side until the first side has dried enough that you won't leave any scratches on the first side.  If you are only working one room, do not allow temptation to cause you to hurry the processs. find something else to do for an hour or so.  If you learn to be patient, you will avoid a lot of sanding.

Another story:  If you don't care for stories, get back to your taping.  A neighbor asked me for a price to tape his cellar remodelling project.  About three or four rooms, all drywalled.  I gave him the price and he wanted to know if i minded if he tried doing it himself.  NO PROBLEM.  I'll would tell him how to do it, even show him to get him started.  He would have to purchase his own tools as i would not loan my tools to anybody.  I'm left handed and lefties wear the edges and handles differently than righties was my excuse.  If he were lefty, it would be flat out no loaning of tools, period.  He went down to the local supply yard to purchase tools and compound that i had recommended.  While there, he met one of his DIY buddies who gave him the advise that he did not need those tools.  all he neded was a sponge.  Well, a couple of weeks later, i was not surprised when i got a phone call to do a rescue job.  It was then that he relayed the sponge story and that he was now in real trouble. I took a walk over expecting to see something of a mess that would be somewhat easy to rectify with putty knife and sand paper for and evening or two.  In my wildest dreams, i could not have immagined the nitemare i saw when i entered his cellar.  to make a long story short, it cost the poor man about four times as much to have me straighten the project out than it would have cost had he accepted my original offer. AND, then, he had to do a major cleanup...

Since then, they have come out with the premixed compound where one does not even have to mix.  Just peel the top off and have at it, but to avoid sanding, learn to wait, learn to wait, learn to wait and then try waiting.  you will be surprised at how much faster the job will go if you also learn to wait. 

Have fun
Tinker

 

[Tinker]

Another thought.  There a lot of good inovations in taping tools. The taping knife is most important.  get a selection.  i use a 4" for starting corners and a 6 or 8 for the flat tape and nails.  For second and third coats, i go to 8" for corners and nails and 12 " for the flat tape.  If you are not used to trowels, stay away from them.  The tape knives are easir to learn and you won't gt as much compound down your neck and in your teeth.  Try to stick with square cut knives as opposed to the tapered edges, you won't cut into the tape on the corners.  Since i learned plastering, i have alwayss used a plaster hawk to hold the compound, some like to use trays.  suite yourself.  stay away from those angle knives designed for both sides of the corners.  Leave those for the experts.  come to think of it, i have never seen an expert use thos things.  They lose too much time didling trying to get it right on bothsides at once.  they just slap it of and move to next corner.

Tinker

 

[Michael Kellough]

...Another story:  If you don't care for stories, get back to your taping....

Have fun
Tinker

I enjoy your stories and advice.

 

[woodshopdemos]

There is even one on Ebay. And you can get the words translated for you. Some translated lines leave a little to be desired: "Strong, fast erosion at wall and cover by strong, durable Winkelgetriebe " No problem if your Winkelgetnebe is in need of winkeling.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://item.express.ebay.de/Haus-Garten_Heimwerker_Elektrowerkzeuge_Festool-Planex-Langhalsschleifer-LHS-255-WELTNEUHEIT_W0QQitemZ330147658264QQihZ014QQptdnZElektrowerkzeugeQQddnZHausQ20Q26Q20GartenQQadnZHeimwerkerQQptdiZ2414QQddiZ1814QQadiZ2452QQcmdZExpressItem&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=5&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dplanex%2Bfestool%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26ie%3DUTF-8

 

[Dan Clark]

I certainly don't have the drywalling experience of some of you folks.  OTOH, for my master bath remodel, I realized that I'd have to learn the skills and learn them well.  I didn't want to repeat the mistakes of the original builders and other homeowners, and in many cases I had to repair them.

My master bath remodel is a "project from hell".  Since it's a complete remodel (sistered joists, and new subfloor, interior walls, electrical, plumbing, and tile), the logistics are nightmarish and there have been constant surprises, I found that hiring subs to be very difficult.  Since I want pro-level results, I've learned a lot of new level skills and bought pro-level tools.

When I talk to people and read posts on many forums, I'm constantly amazed at the number of homowners who waltz in to these projects with misconceptions like:

- "It shouldn't be that difficult.  The pros charge too much!"
- "The guy at the BORG said 'It's easy!'"
- "I don't need those expensive materials."
- "I can't afford those expensive tools.  The cheap ones are good enough!"

While it's feasible to get good results with inexpensive materials and tools, I've found that it takes a LOT of knowledge and experience to know when that's feasible.  IMO, most homeowner DYI'ers have neither.  So it's not surprising that they get poor results and end up spending more to repair it or hire a pro (at twice the cost) to repair it.

My approach is simple - First, get good quality tools and materials.  Then, spend the time and effort to learn how to do it the right way.  It's been literally and figuratively painful, but so far I've achieved very good results.

Through this process, I learned quite a bit about drywalling.  There seem to be two camps of Pro drywallers.  Pros who do nothing but drywall and lots of it, and Pro remodelers and generalists who do it as part of the contracting business.

Many of the Pros who do nothing by dryall use very expensive, taping systems that cost $2,000 - $5000.  Automatic tapers and mud pumps allow them to set and finish tape at speeds that are astonishing.    Here's an example of the tools many of them use:http://www.all-wall.com/acatalog/Drywall_Master_Jumbo_Pro_Set1.php.

Remodelers and other generalists typically can't justify the expensive stuff.  Drywalling a few rooms makes the cost and hassle not worth it.  However there are tools that help.  Manual corner flushers and some specialized sanders help them. 

It's this second group that I'm aiming at.  I found the 2" combo corner flusher and 3" corner flusher make short work of inside corners.    After trying multiple regular and dustless sanders, I found that rough sanding taped joints with a dustless hand sander to work the best and then finish with this Radius 360? Drywall Sanding Tool.    The manual dustless pole sanders sound like a good idea, but I found them VERY difficult to control (YMMV).  In addition to that, I've got multiple other smaller taping knives and other tools that make the job go faster.    This stuff is a bit expensive, but almost all are pro-level purchased at places like www.all-wall.com.  IMO, that's about the only way you're going to get something that approaches high quality.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Dan Clark]

No problem if your Winkelgetnebe is in need of winkeling.

John,

Well that's a problem that all of us have.  As the years pass, our Winkelgetnebe needs winkeling.  ;D

Dan.

 

[jonny round boy]

There is even one on Ebay.

Yes, there's a couple - that's where I *ahem* borrowed the above images from!

 

[Eli]

FWIW, I learned the hot set and sponge method from a pro, and it's fast and clean. I didn't mean to give the impression you don't use knives. You still throw up three coats, with increasingly longer knives. But you can knock down everything you need to with a sponge. A sponge bought in the masonry section, not a normal sponge.
Because it kicks fast, you can do all three coats in an hour or so. Ready for paint real soon. If you move slow, switch to a longer setting mix. 5 min, 20 min, 45 min, or 60 min. are available in the states. I used to use 20 min. there.
I've only seen 45 minute here in Australia, but I know if I looked, I could find at least one other open time. I just finished some serious repairs in a lath and plaster room. The drought last year settled the foundation and tore apart a couple of walls. They sell bondo in giant tubs here as 'builder's filler'. That was a great way to stabilize the cracks and keep any further erosion from happening so I could plaster. I did use RO150 to knock that down in areas where I was too slow with the spreader. I also used an extractor fan in the window. The staff in the office building where I was working kept walking by saying "Surf's up!" every time I mixed a batch....

Still, nothing but flat white paint was appropriate for that room, you can't make chicken salad from chicken S4!t.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Dan and Tinkern,

Dan has shown us some fancy and relatively expensive corner taping tools.  I have learned to use a 90 degree corner taping tool, but after comparing that approach with Tinker's recommendations, I prefer his way.  The part that took longest to learn was his lesson on waiting, and waiting, and learning to wait again.  I wish I had had Tinker's counsel many years ago when my wife and I struggled to figure out how to tape drywall.  At that time we were also ignorant of the fact that little bathrooms are probably the hardest rooms to drywall and wallpaper due to the proximity of all their corners and their fixtures when the need arises to repair prevously shoddy work.

Dave R.

 

[Dan Clark]

Dave,

I agree with Tinker about the corner knives.   Toward the bottom of this page, you'll see the "Marshalltown 4 X 5 (10,16cm X 12,70cm) Inside Drywall Corner Trowel w/ DuraSoft? Handle":http://www.all-wall.com/acatalog/Corner_Tools.php.  I have an inside and an outside corner knife from a different manufacturer.  I don't like 'em; they are a hassle to use.   

The Corner Flushers are a different beast.  They are pretty expensive, but much better than the corner trowel.   For some of the drywall work I've done so far, I didn't have the flushers.  I tried using the corner trowels.   Major hassle.   About 1/2 way through one set of inside corners I gave up, bit the bullet, and bought two flushers and one handle.   I don't like the cost, but I still have lots of inside corners to do.   

Regarding drywalling bathrooms... 

IMO, they are extremely tough to do.   One wall has 14 individual openings (pipes, drains, fixtures, sockets) to be cut in the drywall.   Even after the work I've already completed, there are still 17 inside and 6 outside corners to tape.   Also, to help prevent moisture problems, I'm using hot mud (setting-type mud) for all taping. 

I've had lots of recommendations to use a glossier paint in the bathroom - maybe an eggshell.   The problem is that every tiny little defect will show up.   Combine that with lots of light coming from multiple fixtures and the skylight, and a Level 5 finish is pretty much required.   So, I'm skim coating the entire bathroom.  (I'm going to use the roll-on and trowel off method.)

Now consider that I'm tiling the shower, tub backsplash, and vanity top with square-cut limestone.  So that drywall has to be: a) it don't matter, b) decently flat is fine, or c) dead flat?  Yes, we have a winner - dead flat!     That was a major hassle!

All of this means a level of effort that is pretty amazing.  Yep, bathrooms are the worst.  That's why I bought the tools.  I can't afford to screw up the drywall after all the time and money spent.

A couple of other things I've learned...

- File down the the sharp corners of knives just a little so that don't catch.    Not much.  Just so they aren't sharp.   

- I tried using a hawk, but had lots trouble with it.   I went back to using a pan.   And, I found that I liked the 14" pans over the 12" pans.  Get a good one though.  Continuous welded stainless steel is best and won't leak.   HD and Lowes (at least locally) carry nothing but spot welded junk.  They'll leak. 

- Oddly, I prefer hot, setting-type mud to regular, drying-type mud.  I can mix up the amount I want and choose the setting time (I have 20, 40, and 90 minute mud) that meets the task.   I use the easy-sand types and find it just a little harder to sand than the drying-type.   And clean up is easier to me.  Scrape out your pan and knives and your done.  Cleaning mud mashers is a real pain, IMO.

-Using a Rotozip to route out openings and cut end walls flush is messy, but says lots of time and work.  But they are tricky to use.   I've got three routed openings that need to be patched because I overshot or made some other bonehead error.  If using a Rotozip, get the dust collector attachment, get a Fein hose adapter, and hook it to your Festool CT.  It reduces the dust 50-90%.

- If you think your bathroom was built correctly, you're probably wrong.  Expect shoddy work that you will have to fix.

Dan.