New festool vac/saw setup questions

[Kevin Stricker]

As I see it Fein has put their name on the line calling their filter/bag combo a HEPA vac, and that is going to be looked at in a better light than a vacuum that does  not.  You can argue tell you are blue in the face with any inspector that your CT is as good or better than the Fein but most likely that is not going to matter at all as Festool is not classifying it as such.  Festool is not qualifying their vacs as HEPA/EPA compliant so in the EPA's eyes they are no better than any run of the mill shop vac with a HEPA filter.  The way I look at it, the Fein is cheap insurance.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I'll bet you the $32,500 fine it doesn't happen.  If you're gonna think like that, you might as well stay home and wait for the Mayan prophecy to come true too.  I don't mean this as a personal attack against Kevin's statement.  It's just silly to be that much of a worry wart when there's no legal way they could get you for using a Festool CT like that.  It's not like you're doing asbestos remediation in a pressurised enclosure.  Remember, after you're done cleaning up bagging the possible hazardous lead paint, the EPA tells you to dump it in with regular garbage.  Guess what happens when that garbage goes not to a landfill but an incinerator?  They're burning lead paint.  It's all a big joke, poorly thought out executed even worse.

 

[tbellemare]

My guess, and this is just a semi-educated guess, is that the whole thing was influenced by politics (both/all sides) and once it got rolling, it took on its own life. A life that had to prove something to everyone, which is why it means very little of substance.

I suspect the fines will only be applied by some local (or relatively local) authorities that have an axe to grind or want to inflate current, popular opinion. I suspect that if contractors take reasonable precautions while acting in good faith with good tools and practices, they can defend their business in court.

Unfortunately, anyone who has dealt with CERTAIN local authorities knows that they can be unreasonable. Also, going to court is typically untenable. I think, as others have suggested, that the best thing is to first get, IN WRITING, the recommendations and requirements of your local and regional authorities. With that in hand and your documented attempts to comply, you should be reasonably safe.

I sell both Festool and Fein. I seriously doubt that any legitimate analysis would make either one more safe for kiddies than the other if properly collecting the results of remodeling. The big difference I see is that Festool dust extractors work better with the Festool system. I have customers that will freely state that they also work best with other mfr's tools. There is one accessory for Festool Dust Extractors that can make a big difference in a multi-material environment, and that is the Spark Trap. It can be used to knock down chunks on the way in to the bag. It allows the Festool CT's to work on a variety of tools that normally people don't think can be run clean.

Tom

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Spark Trap. It can be used to knock down chunks on the way in to the bag. It allows the Festool CT's to work on a variety of tools that normally people don't think can be run clean.

Tom, could you elaborate on that?  I'm interested.  And what do you mean by knocking down chunks?

 

[chrisrosenb]

As I see it Fein has put their name on the line calling their filter/bag combo a HEPA vac, and that is going to be looked at in a better light than a vacuum that does  not.  You can argue tell you are blue in the face with any inspector that your CT is as good or better than the Fein but most likely that is not going to matter at all as Festool is not classifying it as such.  Festool is not qualifying their vacs as HEPA/EPA compliant so in the EPA's eyes they are no better than any run of the mill shop vac with a HEPA filter.  The way I look at it, the Fein is cheap insurance.

You need to look at this site. Festool HEPA Vacs
Festool does advertise there CT 22/33 & 26/36 vacs as HEPA just as Fein does their vacs.

 

[tbellemare]

Tom, could you elaborate on that?  I'm interested.  And what do you mean by knocking down chunks?

If you use a Festool CT to pick up chunks, it can shoot them right through the bags. By chunks, I mean anything more massively dense than a wood chip.

Let's say that you were in a cleaning mode and you had removed some grout. It often comes out in chunks. If you fly one of those chunks of grout through a CT 22 or CT 33, it would hit the back of the paper bag at pretty high velocity. The new CT's are somewhat similar though the bags appear to be more resilient. Putting the Spark Trap in the system, you can knock down those "bullets" before they see the inside of the CT, let alone the back of a bag.

Admittedly, it can be a little tedious to empty the knocked-down bits out of the Spark Trap but it doesn't take nearly as long or cost as much, (even cumulatively), as a bag blow out (bag, clean up, filter). It is a use of the technology that people I know are using and they are getting far more use out of their CT's than the average user. It's possible to use Festool CT's effectively and safely with materials harder than wood.

Tom

 

[Corwin]

...  Putting the Spark Trap in the system, you can knock down those "bullets" before they see the inside of the CT, let alone the back of a bag.

Admittedly, it can be a little tedious to empty the knocked-down bits out of the Spark Trap but it doesn't take nearly as long or cost as much, (even cumulatively), as a bag blow out (bag, clean up, filter). It is a use of the technology that people I know are using and they are getting far more use out of their CT's than the average user. It's possible to use Festool CT's effectively and safely with materials harder than wood.

Tom

I can understand using a Spark Trap to, well, prevent sparks from entering the bag while working with materials that may in fact cause a spark.  But for most woodworking situations, would not either a separator or cyclone be a better choice -- and much easier to empty?

 

[tbellemare]

For most woodworking situations, I would completely agree.

I was suggesting that the Festool CT, Dust Extractors, have more utility than woodworking. They can be used while working with a variety of materials if one considers how to properly configure them and protect them from the results.

Tom

EDIT: Maybe it isn't common knowledge how a Festool Spark Trap works... It is essentially a big, steel, smashed cylinder with two holes. The flow between those holes, which are across from one another, is interrupted by a plate of steel that is set perpendicular to the flow from hole to hole. That plate knocks down hot chips and will also knock down chunks.

In both cases, it protects the bag from hot or sharp "bullets".