New Festool Videos from International Builders Show

Notorious T.O.D. said:
Jason White said:
The new T-square for the guide rails is interesting.

TP

Rutabagared said:

I noticed they didn't mention any price for it though....  I'll guess $165...

Best,
Todd

Actually, I guess I nailed this cost issue pretty well as I was thinking of a single piece approach as the Dewalt $30 piece.  So, if you have two then I guess if you take my estimate times 2, I nailed it....for better or worse.  Looking at the details a little more it might be worth the price especially if you need to work onsite.

Todd
 
PeterK said:
Noticed on the British site that the T12+3 actually has 10.8 volt batteries! The T15+3 has 14.4 volt. Interesting.
Pete

This seems to be a trend all the manufacturers are following with Lithium ion batteries recently.  For example, Bosch relabeled all their 10.8 litheon tools to 12 volts, but if you look closely at the label it says something like "10.8V, 12V max".  Milwaukee and Rigid have similar labels on their 12V.  Makita seems to be the only one still listing theirs as 10.8V.  Evidently Li batteries have a more-than-nominal voltage for a short time after they are charged, and the marketing departments decided this would make them sound more powerful.
 
This seems to be a trend all the manufacturers are following with Lithium ion batteries recently.  For example, Bosch relabeled all their 10.8 litheon tools to 12 volts, but if you look closely at the label it says something like "10.8V, 12V max".  Milwaukee and Rigid have similar labels on their 12V.  Makita seems to be the only one still listing theirs as 10.8V.  Evidently Li batteries have a more-than-nominal voltage for a short time after they are charged, and the marketing departments decided this would make them sound more powerful.

Bosch was just trying to keep up with Makita and Milwaukee.  The batteries and chargers haven't changed from when they labeled them 10.8 volt.  They just increased the designation to essentially match the float voltage of the chargers.  Its all marketing, and it is ruining the world.
 
Tom Bellemare said:
Both drills come with the Centrotec Starter Set plus Right Angle and Eccentric Chucks, like the previous "Sets".

We are taking orders now for when they launch, just let me know.

Tom
Tom, do you know if the new drills are going to have the motor protection on them like the C12 drill does?
 
Robert Robinson said:
Tom Bellemare said:
Both drills come with the Centrotec Starter Set plus Right Angle and Eccentric Chucks, like the previous "Sets".

We are taking orders now for when they launch, just let me know.

Tom
Tom, do you know if the new drills are going to have the motor protection on them like the C12 drill does?

Yes they do. Generally when Festool introduces a tool incorporating an improved technology, that technology is incorporated in the next generation/model.

Bob
 
Robert:

Bob nailed it!

These drills have everything the C12 had (except the shape) and more. They also use the old batteries or the new ones.

What Bob said about Festool incorporating their latest technology in their latest offerings is really apparent when you look at the line of routers that are sold today. The OF 2200 has all the cool features of the OF 1400 plus some new ones.

Tom
 
Does anyone know what the actual battery voltage rating is?  In another thread on another board they are talking about the fact that most of the manufacturers of 10.8v drills are now labeling them as 12v because a Li 10.8v battery charges up to 12v when measured right after charging.

Is Festool using 12v or 15v worth of batteries and using the charging voltage to get to the +3?
 
Nick,

I'm not sure I agree completely with using only ah for comparison.  A 3.5ah hour battery at 15v is not as powerful as a 18v battery at 2.5ah.  The 15v battery will power the drill longer than the 18v because it has a higher ah capacity, but at any given point, the 18v battery can supply more power and thus driver a larger motor.

So I say that it is important to know the true voltage of the batteries because a 10.8v 2.5ah battery pack is not the same as a 12v 2.5ah battery pack....at least as I understand it....though I could be incorrect.
 
P = I * V

I is not amp hours, it is the current draw, amps.  Ah ratings are subjective, based on tested rate of discharge.  Most batteries have a peak discharge rate and it is often lower than actual use.  Ah comparisons from manufacturer to manufacturer are not always accurate.  It depends on how the tests are performed.

Ah is the storage capacity of the battery, much more relative to run-time than output power.
 
Nick, try comparing a 15.6v Panasonic against an 18v Panasonic.  Or try the 12v TDK vs the 15v TDK which I have, both 2.4ah and the 15.5v TDK is more powerful.

If voltage didn't matter then there would be no need to have 18 and 24v anything, we could just run everything on 1.2v 3ah batteries.  The higher voltage can spin a larger motor and that translates into more power.  Now as you have seen there are other things that contribute to power and it is also well known that Panasonic has drills that perform better than most of the competition so I'd bet that the 15v Panasonic would out perform a Ridged of the same capacity as well. That is not only due to their batteries, but also to their motor design, gearing, tolerances etc.

The reason I ask the question is to cut through the marketing hype.  If I had a choice to purchase a 10.8v drill or a 12v drill I would consider the voltage in my decision making process but if I knew that the 12v drill was really a marketing hyped up 10.8v drill, I could make a more informed decision by discounting the voltage as a discriminator.
 
Does anyone want to comment on whether that new FS-PA Parallel stop and FS-PA-VL.
 
IF all else was equal, I would agree with most of Nick's and Bill's comments, but I doubt all else is equal between the Rigid and Panasonic tools being compared.  If the same battery, electronic control circuit and motor technologies were being used, then I would agree that a higher battery voltage will produce a higher torque output of the drill motor.  

It appears to me that our knowledge level would benefit if someone who really knows various battery technologies and portable tool motor technologies would join this thread and give us a detailed explanation.  I suspect the Comparison of the performance of a Rigid 18V drill with 2.5AH battery to a Panasonic 15.6V drill with a 3.5AH battery lacks enough details to be a comparison of the batteries; it may be more a comparison of the design of their motors, gear trains and control circuits.  The AH rating of a battery denotes the total amount of energy that it can hold [and presumably later deliver] when fully charged.  That AH number alone doesn't tell you how rapidly it can deliver that energy to run a motor of a tool; i.e. the power output capability of the battery.  Nor does the voltage, because that output voltage may rapidly fall as more current output is demanded by the control circuit/motor.  The power delivered W (watts) may be expressed as V (volts) times A (amperes).  What are the dynamic V x A characteristics of the various batteries under consideration?  We don't really know.  Have you ever noticed if you run down the battery on a tool, then leave it sit for a few minutes, then try it again, it may give you a very short burst of power.  That is due to the voltage climbing back up during the rest period, but that voltage falls off very quickly when the battery is asked to deliver a lot of current when you try to run the tool again.   The same phenomenon often occurs when the battery in your car is nearly dead; the headlights and horn may work OK, but the battery can no longer deliver the sufficient amperage at sufficient voltage to crank the engine.  The same phenomenon occurs whenever you get/give a static discharge, except that is a capacitor being discharged rather than a battery.

It is also possible to utilize electronic circuitry, transformers and such,  to step up the voltage from the battery to whatever is needed to run the equipment.  In my previous employment, I worked with designers of the electric braking systems now being deployed on aircraft.  These systems run supply voltages as high as 280V, but the [lead acid] batteries are not above 28V.  Even when running only on battery power, these aircraft systems can overdrive the motors if needed in an emergency situation, producing a brake torque higher than their hydraulic counterparts, three motors can be made to do the work of four for a short time (longer periods would overheat the motors to self-destruction).  It's all in the design of the system, not the inherent characteristics of the batteries.  Where very large amperages are needed for short periods of time, capacitors are often used to supplement the power available from other sources.

Festool's (and some Panasonic) C12 and newer model drills use 3-phase motors which are much more efficient and provide much more torque for a given size and weight than their single phase DC counterparts found in most other drill and other battery-powered tool motors.   These tools have internal circuitry to create the 3-phase current used to drive their motors.  

Dave R.
 
nickao said:
Does anyone want to comment on whether that new FS-PA Parallel stop and FS-PA-VL.

Huh??  Don't understand your question, whether they??????
 
I asked a question on whether the FS-PA Parallel stop and FS-PA-VL  would be  suitable for hardwood.

 
nickao said:
Tom I almost purchased that FS-PA Parallel stop and FS-PA-VL

I have never held it or actually seen it. Will it work with hardwoods?

I know it is more than likely designed for ply, but I would love to use it on the  3" x 10"  wide boards I get.

Nick,

I have not gotten my guide yet, but I don't see why it wouldn't work with hardwoods or thicker stock.

Bob
 
I wanted to use it to rip a bunch of 1.5" wide pieces out of my 2" x 10" lumber. The rough edge would be cut first so that the next piece and the rest of the pieces after that could index on the nice cut.

Right now I have to make that first cut on the TS 75(or jointer if it is not too rough an edge) and walk over to the table saw, I would love to just keep cutting away on the TS 75.

To get this new accessories operation right:

I make a cut then I slide the wood over, I cut again, then slide the wood over and cut again and so on and so on, until I am done making my strips? Is that how it works Bob?
 
Hey Bill I am sorry. I am an ass  :)

Sometimes I can not express myself the best way here. I had 2 root cancels this morning and the numbness is wearing off so I am a little on edge.

Still forum friends I hope.
 
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