NEW Kapex KS88

[jonny round boy]

I don't know if there are many people on this forum with connections to World War 2, but I think that marketing-wise the number "88" is quite ill chosen. This number refers to the German AA and AT gun, that was one of the most feared by the Allies.

I do know of the '88, but TBH I hadn't made that connection. I think enough time has passed now for people not to worry about tenuous links like that. Besides, the 120 and 88 refers to the cut capacity - if they'd rounded it up to 90, then no doubt someone would complain that it couldn't cut 90mm stock...

About braking; with some type of electric motors, when you short the magnetic coil, it will produce a counter-force that will brake the rotor. I don't know if it works with the Festool motors, but it is very effective and cheap.

That's what the electronic brake does - that's why I can't understand the 'cost saving' benefit of removing it.

 

[Forrest Anderson]

The removal of blade braking would be a very surprising cost-cutting measure, and the thought of a blade slowly free-wheeling to a standstill would put many potential purchasers off the idea of getting one (including me).

HOWEVER, I think the new KS88 probably does have blade braking!   Here's why I think that...

Whilst the comparison chart at http://www.festool.co.uk/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=1191 says...

KS Sliding compound mitre saws:
How do they compare?

...the page entitled "Overview of the benefits" at http://www.festool.co.uk/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=1193 says that a "safety brake" is part of the MMC electronics...

The impressive features and benefits of the KS 88 include:

...and the page entitled "Definitive features come as standard" at http://www.festool.co.uk/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=1201 also says that a "safety brake" is included in the MMC electronics "for extra safety"...

KAPEX KS 88: quick, easy and so versatile
Definitive features come as standard:

I therefore reckon that the KS88 does have blade braking, and that the comparison chart is wrong.

I'm off to try to find more conclusive evidence to support my theory!  

Forrest

 

[Mike B]

I'm off to try to find more conclusive evidence to support my theory!  

Though I like your positive angle on the info at hand... something tells me they've just copied and pasted the MMC blurb from the KS120... happy to be wrong though!

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Though I like your positive angle on the info at hand... something tells me they've just copied and pasted the MMC blurb from the KS120... happy to be wrong though!

I have now found the new Kapex brochure at http://www.festool.co.uk/images/gb_downloads/brochure_KS88_KS120.pdf, which gives details of both machines, but guess what? It has the same inconsistent information as the website. Unfortunately, the Adobe Acrobat version of the brochure on their website has the pages assembled out of order, which confused things even more!

On the page 4 of 6 of the electronic version of the brochure (and page 2 of the printed version), it says:

The new KAPEX KS 88 and the KS 120 are two sliding compound mitre saws with a single objective: the perfect cut. The impressive features of the KS 88 include:

twin-column guide with two bearings for unique precision
low weight for easy transportation and greater mobility
intelligent details such as an angle preselection knob and quick-release clamp for rapid adjustment of the inclination angle
integral MMC electronics for a smooth start-up and efficient machining of different materials

When it comes to cutting accurately, the KS 120 with additional equipment features is simply unbeatable:

e.g. dual-line laser for an accurate indication of the cutting line
easily accessible fine adjuster for setting the saw blade angle accurate to the millimetre
special cutting position for cutting depths up to 120 mm
practical bevel for rapid transfer of interior and exterior angles

In the above case, note how it doesn't say that the KS120 also has a brake - the implication is therefore that as far as the brake is concerned, the KS120 and KS88 are the same.

Secondly, when giving highlights of both saws on page 5 of 6, the brochure says:

MMC electronics with variable speed preselection, smooth start-up, overload protection and integrated safety brake for safe adaptation to the working material.

Again, that's another vote for the KS88 having a brake.

However, we then get the same problem with the comparison table on the page 6 of 6 of the electronic version of the brochure (and page 5 of the printed version), where it says that only the KS120 has a safety brake!

The hunt is still on for more conclusive information...

Forrest

 

[Peterm]

Thanks for the update. Personally I'm not sure introducing a limited-spec model is the way to go ( the lack of laser guides would make me think twice) and I think it'd be crazy for any manufacturer to introduce a saw without blade-braking at anything but the most bargain-basement of prices.

?644 (plus VAT, presumably) doesn't count as bargain-basement round my way.

Cheers, Pete.

 

[festoller]

On the brake issue. Since there was nothing about the KS 88 on the German Festool site, I called Festool and spoke to sales.

The person I spoke to confirmed there's no brake installed. He also mentioned that the other safety features will prevent touching of the blade anyway.

Well, I agree an endless spinning blade is something you really don't want to have, on the other hand I can't imagine Festool would develop something that 1980.

My guess is that even without the break the blade will stop pretty fast. I'll try to see and test one as soon as possible or talk to their technical support again next week.

 

[Forrest Anderson]

On the brake issue. Since there was nothing about the KS 88 on the German Festool site, I called Festool and spoke to sales.

The person I spoke to confirmed there's no brake installed. He also mentioned that the other safety features will prevent touching of the blade anyway.

Thanks for contacting them.

If the brake is indeed missing, I have to say that I think the decision was a bad one.

In the Festool UK on-line catalogue the full designation of the various packages are:

  KS 88 E GB 110V      in carton  -  644,00 GBP   
  KS 88 E GB 240V      in carton  -  644,00 GBP   
  KS 120 EB Set GB 240V      in carton  -  1360,00 GBP   
  KS 120 EB Set GB 110V      in carton  -  1360,00 GBP   
  KS 120 EB GB 240V      in carton  -  835,00 GBP   
  KS 120 EB GB 110V      in carton  -  835,00 GBP   

It is well known that Festool use the E suffix to indicate "with electronics", and the B suffix to indicate "with brake".

As the KS88 only has the E suffix, it does indeed look as though the brake is missing, at least in the UK market.

My guess is that even without the break the blade will stop pretty fast. I'll try to see and test one as soon as possible or talk to their technical support again next week.

Thank you. I look forward to hearing your findings!

Forrest

 

[lordinteriors]

this confuses me also when i read this post i was excited but a saw that wont even cut 100 mill seems a bit pointless i have a dw715 and i love it i would love a kapex but only 120 cuts is limited for my use anyway

lee

 

[festoller]

As promised I spoke to Festool again and got the missing information on the brake issue.

The Kapex KS 120 fast brake works with additional magnets. The KS 88 is without these magnets, but has an electronic brake such as other manufacturers. The electronic brake needs approximately 4 seconds (an estimate by technical support) to completely stop the blade.

Festool mentioned the KS 88 non magnetic brake system is equal to other manufacturers.

At least for my old Makita 1040 I can confirm this, but it would be interesting to hear from other experts  about the brake system from manufacturers such as Dewalt, Bosch and others. If Festool is right, they?ve simply downgraded their KS 120 brake to meet the standard of other manufacturers.

Unfortunately the German Kapex promotion including the ?Festool? radio will probably not start until September, production has just started. ;D

 

[mastercabman]

The electronic brake needs approximately 4 seconds (an estimate by technical support) to completely stop the blade.

4 seconds?        If only they would use the same electric brake that was used on the(original) B&D Saw cat!!!!

 

[vajper]

The Kapex KS 120 fast brake works with additional magnets. The KS 88 is without these magnets, but has an electronic brake such as other manufacturers. The electronic brake needs approximately 4 seconds (an estimate by technical support) to completely stop the blade.

Festool mentioned the KS 88 non magnetic brake system is equal to other manufacturers.

Ba ding! Remember post #17?

 

[festoller]

As mentioned earlier Festool Germany just posted pictures of the new site radio, you'll get for free with a new Kapex KS 120. This seems to be limited to Germany for now, since it's not mentioned in the UK. There's only one photo and no technical details for now. I'll post an update as soon as there are more details.

http://www.festool.de/Aktionen/Herbstangebote-2009/Seiten/AngebHolz9_09.aspx

By the way still no news about the LS1016 in the UK.