New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller

[joiner1970]

As far as I can tell the only factor that allows the new model to drill lines is a new plastic tab thing with a 32mm offset which for some reason they didn't make for the older model.  The tabs may be backwards compatible.

I bet you can modify the old model to do the same. An add-on sub-base with a pin at 32 mm offset from the bit. One can do the same for a plunge router too.

This (as well as the new Doweller) presents a cumulative error problem. If your offset tab/pin is even 0.1 mm off, you'll be 1 mm off after 10 plunges (20 holes). The old model, which uses toothed guide rail does not have this issue.

I did ask Jens about this as I thought that might be a problem. He showed how you can use the long metal arms to drill the holes further apart then go back and drill in-between using the plastic pin. I'm sure that would lessen accumulative error slightly. I could only tell by actually using this thing for awhile.

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk

 

[lwoirhaye]

Doesn't Freud make 'em too?

They did. They stopped making it.  Triton makes one, but it allegedly doesn't even come close to the Mafell in terms of precision.  I have doubts as to whether such a tool can be made well below a certain price point.  It's a lot more precise than something like a biscuit joiner where a $100 model works almost as well as a Lamello.

 

[aloysius]

Doesn't Freud make 'em too?

They did. They stopped making it.  Triton makes one, but it allegedly doesn't even come close to the Mafell in terms of precision.  I have doubts as to whether such a tool can be made well below a certain price point.  It's a lot more precise than something like a biscuit joiner where a $100 model works almost as well as a Lamello.

I'm referring to the bits, not the machines, as per the Q above.

 

[Svar]

Doesn't Freud make 'em too?

They did. They stopped making it.  Triton makes one, but it allegedly doesn't even come close to the Mafell in terms of precision.  I have doubts as to whether such a tool can be made well below a certain price point.  It's a lot more precise than something like a biscuit joiner where a $100 model works almost as well as a Lamello.

I'm referring to the bits, not the machines, as per the Q above.

Well, Triton makes the bits too.

 

[jeh]

The templates should work though there are expensive. The tools bottom plate has the same zig zag pattern. Buy the templates and never look back. They are very well-designed.

 

[lwoirhaye]

I think these are the format of cutters that fit the Mafell -http://catalog.eoasaw.com/viewitems...tooling-systems-8mm-shank-dowel-bits-55mm-oal

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Got me the DDF 40 yesterday.



Very well built unit for sure and I look forward to using it tomorrow or perhaps saturday on a project. Got the kit with most, if not all the add ons including the template adapter and the side extension. A colleague has the template rails so I won't get any myself.

It is down to 800 rpm from the previous G model (18000!!!) and the P (13500) but 8000 rpm is still very fast drilling and I think the bits might last longer too. Initial thoughts are: very well made, bulkier than the DD40G but overall good balance.

Will see how it operates during the next couple of days, it will give the Domino a run for the money for sure!

 

[neeleman]

You're certainly a Plug-it Fan!
I assume Mafell didn't deliver the DDF 40 with the Plug-it tail?

 

[joiner1970]

Got me the DDF 40 yesterday.



Very well built unit for sure and I look forward to using it tomorrow or perhaps saturday on a project. Got the kit with most, if not all the add ons including the template adapter and the side extension. A colleague has the template rails so I won't get any myself.

It is down to 800 rpm from the previous G model (18000!!!) and the P (13500) but 8000 rpm is still very fast drilling and I think the bits might last longer too. Initial thoughts are: very well made, bulkier than the DD40G but overall good balance.

Will see how it operates during the next couple of days, it will give the Domino a run for the money for sure!

I'm getting a demo one to try out tomorrow.  While i wait for mine

 

[pingvinlakrits]

I have now used it for a full day and I will post a mini review with initial impressions tomorrow after my second day in the shop with the DDF 40. So far so good but there are some things I am not overly impressed with. 

Might snap some photos while I am at it.

/ Henrik

PS

Yes, I am a bonafied Plug-It fan! Considering how few corded machines I have left nowadays I am glad to have them all fitted with the Plug-it system for convenience. Still bugs me that I can't do it with the Mirka sander...

 

[aloysius]

Yes, I am a bonafied Plug-It fan! Considering how few corded machines I have left nowadays I am glad to have them all fitted with the Plug-it system for convenience. Still bugs me that I can't do it with the Mirka sander...

You could always try an alternative labelled sander with Mirka's motor & mechanism:  Sumake, Rupes, Carsystem, Delmeq or Indasa.  All these have fixed cabling systems.  Only Mirka & Metabo seem to share their own proprietory plug-it cabling.  Alternatively, you could always ditch both the Mirka & Tooltechnic plug-it tools & just buy fixed cable machines & install your own system instead.  Some are apparently pretty reliable, giving reputedly more glitch-free performance than the abovementioned two.  Festool once offered a proper fixed cable alternative, but I haven't seen any in their current catalogues for a few years.

For what it's worth, I've sampled an assortment of plug-it systems from not just Festool & Mirka, but also B&D, Elu, Kango, Atlas Copco, Milwaukee & Eisenblaetter over the years (30 odd?) with nary an issue ever.  But I don't ever exchange cables between tools.  To me it's a waste of my time, in Mirka/Metabo's case difficult to accomplish with a vac hose installed, and all but guaranteed to increase the incidence of bad connection through repetition.  Every required tool remains plugged into a power board on or near the vac.  I just exchange vac hoses as required.

I also noticed recently that Mirka now offer a rewirable plug-it female plug, thus negating the potential expense of cable replacement.

More important to me is the current prevalence of poly-vinyl chloride power tool cabling.  It's cheap, nasty, occasionally unsafe & in many ways & instances unsuited for some of the tools to which it's installed.  Thankfully, the very best tool companies still incorporate rubber sheathing & high-purity microstranded copper flex on their premium tools.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Most of the corded tools I've kept have their own Plug-it cable attached to it in the Systainer. A few of them I don't use that often but travel together so they get to share a cable on site.

In the shop switching cables is unfortunately a necessity since I have a cable attached to the shop vac hose and that is getting quite a workout some days, switching between two/three machines at times. I do have the OFK500 on a separate cord since I don't use a vac for it so that keeps the switching down some for me.

I have yet to wear out a cable or fitting though my ETS EC 150 sander broke down just shy of the warranty going out, the machine end connector being the culprit. I think. I will never know as Festool misplaced the sander in house and I got a new one eventually, but no thanks to Festool. There was a small popping noise when attaching the cable so I think the ETS EC 150 shorted out due to something broken on the machine end. Cable was fine and fairly new and no other tools were affected. 

I am keeping an eye on things and I am aware of the potential problems. As long as it is just a matter of replacing a cable I am fine with that though I hope I don't have to.

 

[mcooley]

For the price the plug-it seems like it needs to be reworked. My Domino 500 connector pin sheared clean off inside the socket and the Festool tech said it was probably a worn out Plug-it cord etc. You have to be sure the cord is turned all the way and doesn't loosen over time. Otherwise, it can introduce play and strain the connectors in the socket. I keep wondering what other Festool tool will do this next? I purchased a new plug-it cord since the metal pin was jammed inside it but as for the other cords no way can I afford to buy all new ones. At least like many people I only use a couple cords regularly. Who has ever heard of a $50 cord anyhow? Crazy. I mean the plug isn't exactly high tech and the fact you can't take it apart or repair it is more or less planned obsolescence. As a separate note the other end of the cord is just as unreliable by loosely fitting in the outlet which is completely contradictory to the whole premise of the system, no? 

 

[mcooley]

One more note about the new Mafell. Maybe Festool will now finally step up on the ergonomics. I know they like the minimalist thing but the fact your hand has no definite place to grip the machine is something they need to fix. The Mafell at least tries. I have yet to handle one but I assume it feels more stable than the DF 500. 

 

[lwoirhaye]

I think I push on the "butt" of the tool with my older duo-doweller much of the time.  Plunging into hardwoods requires some pressure.  Stuff like MDF plunges easily and alignment is more consistent.  I mentioned elsewhere that stationary dowel drills use clamp downs which the Mafell lacks.  It may be an acceptable compromise but from part to part the clamped parts are likely to come in with tighter tolerances.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

A very brief write up on the topic (I have a longer version on the MUF though I am not sure linking is appreciated by the mod's):

The machine is bulkier.
But, the ergonomics are improved and the on/off switch is way better (if it lasts!) and overall balance is great.

Plunge speed is slower than the Domino DF500 and a little slower than the DD40G with 8mm bits. I find I have to use more force - despite the better ergonomics - to complete a plunge with the DDF 40.

My DDF40 was the MaxiMax version - all goodies included.

However they did not ship my unit with a plunge depth scale  [crying] which I realized early on in the thread on the MUF as I complained about having to measure up the depth of cut manually from the bits and another user wrote about the "scale on the side of the machine" - which turned out to be missing on my unit!  [big grin]

(The dealership has ordered up the spare part today...)

Being well familiar with the plunge action of the DD40G and Domino DF500 (and 700) I agree that the butt end grip works best. For the Domino I equipped it with a "D" handle sort of like the XL700 which has significantly improved plunge action and ergonomics on my DF500.

But I digress... 

...the DDF is slower to plunge, the depth scale was missing and the depth stop is mushy, the plastic tabs give a little when you reach the end of the plunge. It feels a bit cheap and makes it a little harder to know when you are done. On better quality MDF the DDF40 slows a little midplunge and requires more force to complete the plunge despite having better ergonomics. I tried various grips but decided the butt end is still the best and more comfortable than the DD40G and the Domino.

Despite all that the machine is a joy to register against the work piece and to work with, precision is excellent and with less slop than the Domino (for better or worse!)

Everything assembled has a snug fit with no play but without having to use excessive force to put it together. This is stellar performance and definitively outweighs the nitpicks - which still are annoying, I have to say.

The accessories are very well made and the alu adapter for the template rail works as a lateral support for surface plunging (perpendicular to the material). However my adapter did work itself a bit loose - twice - after a series of plunges so it is something I will have to keep an eye on. I did tighten it up I am sure and after the second time it worked one side a bit loose I was sure I wasn't imagining things, but with some mdf dirt and grime in there it will probably not unwind further down the line.

It is surely not a Domino replacement but it will take a heavy toll on my Domino usage. Still, the Domino does things that are unique to it and has given me some good solutions for furniture making so mine is a definite keeper but I do appreciate the updated Duo Doweller as it has taken the older DD40G/P to the next level and made it as simple to use as the Domino has always been.

The DDF40 can also register on the inside side of cabinets which is nice - though the vac hose adapter has to be removed for the right side - and this came in handy for me today. 

If you are into the DDF I think it makes sense to get the MaxiMax with the goodies as it does expand the possibilities. Stocking up on Dowels is cheap too!

For anyone contemplating either the Domino OR the DDF 40 I am not sure which to recommend over the other.
As it stands today I think I would go for the DDF40 for cost over time, ease of use and the ease of finding and stocking up on dowels though I am very happy with my Domino. The DDF40 can do a few things related to cabinet building the Domino simply can't so if one is on a limited budget the DDF40 has a few key advantages.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

I think I push on the "butt" of the tool with my older duo-doweller much of the time.  Plunging into hardwoods requires some pressure.  Stuff like MDF plunges easily and alignment is more consistent.  I mentioned elsewhere that stationary dowel drills use clamp downs which the Mafell lacks.  It may be an acceptable compromise but from part to part the clamped parts are likely to come in with tighter tolerances.

I fully agree with this. On MDF on the upper scale of the density range the DDF40 is a bit slower in use though. Still not too slow but a few plunges in MDF required more force than I expected. The Domino digs in differently and is not a fair comparison but is faster for sure. It is worth the extra effort for the extra precision though the "slop" in the Domino mortises are sometimes very beneficial for assembly.  There is not much wiggle room with the DDF40 but so far all pieces have come together just square, snug and perfect. Unglued MDF boxes are surprisingly stable.

Except for questionable QC at Mafell in recent years  (for me personally; issues with three out of six NEW machines ordered and a fourth one giving up the ghost which takes the total up to FOUR out of six purchases requiring warranty repairs...  ) I do think the DDF40 is a great upgrade to the DD40G and a worthy addition to any a workshop in need of a intuititive, hand held jointer.

To be fair I will mention that other people who have tried the new DDF40 have mixed results with plunge speed with the 8mm bits in MDF. At least one person finds it fast in plunge operation and YMMV but I find it a bit on the slow side. Slow, but precise.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

As far as I can tell the only factor that allows the new model to drill lines is a new plastic tab thing with a 32mm offset which for some reason they didn't make for the older model.  The tabs may be backwards compatible.

There is a sturdy adapter for the Mafell LR32 template rails included in the MaxiMax kit and available as an accessory. "Auxilliary rest ZA".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=Cj600bEjvqY

The tabs are not backwards compatible with the older model. There is a slight difference in the machining of the base plate receptacle. We did try fitting the new tabs to the older model.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Quick update: machine runs nicely.

It is not as forgiving as the Domino when it comes to placement/doweling and subsequent assembly.  After a few boxes with internal chambers done with both side by side it is hard to pick a winner - but for me I actually prefer the Domino, it plunges faster, is more forgiving and the end result is pretty much the same.

I say pretty much as the DDF 40 is capable of higher precision and is not very forgiving if you freebase it. Parts will come together and align perfectly or almost not at all. If any piece is out a fraction for any reason it might give you problems fitting it together.

I am not saying I am sloppy with the technique but the DF500 has some advantages for on the fly work whereas the DDF40 can do a little more than "just" dowelling pieces together.

 

[lwoirhaye]

I intend to get some oversized 8mm bits for mine... or make a dowel plate for the dowels I have.  It's not that I have a problem with not drilling the holes accurately, just that when the glue is in and I'm putting things together it can be a little difficult.