New Mafell DDF 40 Duo Doweller

[pingvinlakrits]

I intend to get some oversized 8mm bits for mine... or make a dowel plate for the dowels I have.  It's not that I have a problem with not drilling the holes accurately, just that when the glue is in and I'm putting things together it can be a little difficult.

Yes, the oversized bits are a good idea for sure. I don't really have a problem aligning the holes but sometimes the extra wiggle room is handy on site - as with the Domino. Two pieces that are a fraction off in size will make it hard to put a box together. 

Arguably the DDF40 is more precise. I have had the Domino since it came out in the market and done thousands of holes with it. Still I was very impressed by how sturdy and precise the first box with the DDF40 came out - much more rigid before glue up than an identical box made with the Domino which was a bit wiggly in comparison.

I actually still prefer the Domino as I am so used to it but I am hoping to warm up to the Mafell.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Just ordered a DDF 400. Question about bits, I want a pair of 5mm bits but don't want to pay $78 for them when there are so many for $15 a piece.

Are these bits held by the shank like router bits or do they screw on like Domino cutters?

I read above that they are 8 mm shanks so can they be used in a router too?

* Just got a call from Timberwolf to make sure I'm not a victim of credit card fraud, and asked about the bits, he thinks they are proprietary and ordinary bits won't work. He said that are held by the round shank but a flat =on the shank is clamped by a screw.*

Anyone find a less costly source for compatible bits?

 

[Birdhunter]

The DDF bits have a flat on the shank that allows them to be locked into place. You insert the bit and then tighten down a set screw using the supplied Allen wrench.

The tool can be used with one or two bits. If you use only one bit, you must tighten down the set screw on the unused drive shaft. Please don’t ask how I know this.

I would not try to use the DDF bits as regular drill bits. Likewise, a regular drill bit would not work in the DDF.

After many years of using both Domino machines, I found the DDF surprisingly difficult to push through the cut.

There are excellent videos on the Timberwolf site.

 

[Michael Kellough]

“After many years of using both Domino machines, I found the DDF surprisingly difficult to push through the cut. ”

I suppose it’s the swarf impeding the progress of the drill. since a Domino cutter moves laterally too the swarf is cast aside and the dust extraction pulls it out of the way.

 

[HowardH]

Mine is coming tomorrow.  Couldn't pass up the opportunity on the sale price of $998 including the accessory kit.  It is a beast.  I got to play with one a bit while we were in Munich last month.  I hope my Festools don't get upset with a different color systainer in the sysport.

 

[Michael Kellough]

After posting my question about the bits I found Iwoirhaye’s post about finding bits at RouterBit World.

Looked for the bit online but failed so resorted to picking up the phone. Very helpful guy there found the bit and confirmed the shank diameter is 8mm and already has the flat for the set screw.

Cost $11.04 each. Priority Mail shipping $5.

Before finding out about RBW I’d found and ordered a pair made by European Tooling Systems at Edge of Arlington Saw Co. Also 8mm shank but uncertain if there is a flat. Again, very helpful people and the pair will be drop shipped (for free) from the manufacturer’s distribution center in North Carolina. Total cost $30.14.

Four bits for much less than two of the Mafell. Good if they work...

One last thing, at Timberwolf the bits are described as “hardened steel”. Surely they’re carbide tipped instead?

 

[Lincoln]

I have bits from CMT and Leitz - both brands were a lot cheaper than Mafell. BUT, there's just 'something' about the Mafell bits. They seem to plunge a lot easier and stay sharp a lot longer. I only use the other brands when the originals are out to be sharpened.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Received the DDF 40 and CMT bits.

The aftermarket bits are nominally 55mm but are actually 53mm. The Mafell bits are also “55” but are actually about a 1/2mm longer so adjustment has to be made if you want a mixed pair to cut to the same depth.

My observations about the machine match those posted above so I won’t duplicate.

I’m engaged in a wholesale makeover reorganization of my basement shop. During the chaos I’ve barely room to setup an MFT so I’m kit bashing IKEA cabinets (when weird spaces require custom) and thought the DDF 40 would be good for that.

It’s working great when it’s working. Right now I’m turning 2 foot deep base cabinets into 3 foot deep by adding a foot of white melamine particle board to the original with ten 30mm long 8mm dowels to a 30” butt joint. With the included extension jig I can get a pair of dowels in the middle with no measuring required and no alignment issues. I tap the extension panel onto the dowels enough to keep the pair together while I get it off the table then just use the mass of the bigger panel to hammer the two together by pounding it on the floor (on a floor mat) and set it aside for the glue to dry.

It’s a bit trickier to modify the side and floor panels in order to maximize use of the existing IKEA fastening hardware. This requires drilling both a 5mm and 8mm hole together so the opposite side of the panel requires the bits to be swapped. All of the adjustments required are easy to do with the well designed tool and attachments.

I bought a cheap jig from Amazon for drilling the 15mm cam hole.

But, sometimes the machine doesn’t work at all. There have been reports of incorrectly installed wiring at the power switch resulting in the switch not staying on. I’ve experienced that (at least). In my case the switch does stay depressed but the power isn’t getting thru? What’s worse is that it might just start running again well after the switch is pressed when I’ve picked the tool up off the work to check it out. Potentially dangerous.

This is the 120 volt, 60Hz, 900 watt version.

In addition to the flaky switch (or because of it?) there is a sickly crackling sound from the area of the commutator.

I’m going to try to complete the task with this machine then send it back to Timberwolf. I’m not interested in taking it apart to repair the wiring to the switch even if that’s all that’s wrong. I’ve haven’t yet decided if I’ll want an exchange or refund but I do like joining options and the DDF 40 makes dowel joints (the best for particle board imo) very straight forward.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Grrr, it’s going back for refund.

Well I’m going to try to return it.
Doesn’t look like Timberwolf has a satisfaction guarantee like Festool.

I was starting to enjoy the work flow but then had to move on to laying out drilling locations in more complicated parts. Spent more than an hour on that and then started drilling holes again. Managed to get three pairs drilled (took multiple switch presses) and then it wouldn’t start no matter how many times pressed. No burned electric smell, just no go.

But before starting the layout work I drilled a few pairs of 8mm holes 26mm deep. It was very hard to plunge to the full depth (in particle board) and I’m not weak. This difficulty is what has me throwing in the towel. I don’t want to work that hard when there are other options. I usually seldom use particle board so this tool will seldom be the better option. I saw the video demo using 12mm bits but I’m dubious. Maybe the bigger bit has bigger flutes to clear chips faster?

Sorry Mafell. I own at least two dozen Festools and only one has failed and only after a lot of use.

 

[ScotF]

I think the original duo doweler does a good job with the bigger bits. It is more powerful. Too bad it did not work out for you.

 

[Lincoln]

I've found that technique is everything, with the DD. Try pushing with the heel of your hand, palm up. Makes a huge difference.

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

[member=297]Michael Kellough[/member]  Do you think the difficulty in plunging/cutting, is because of the drastically reduced power output, from the original?

I am very much on the fence with this machine. I am a long time admirer or fan if you like of Mafell but, I’m not sure that the use of dowels isn’t going backwards in many ways?

I know we all have opinion on things, and it is just that, opinion but, I have never gotten too excited about the use of dowels, or pocket hole joints, even though I own several pocket hole and dowelling jigs, I know both methods are popular and loved by many but, mine have gathered a lot of dust.

The very rare time I might use a dowel, I would blow the dust off one of the jigs, and use that.
Am I missing something with the DDF 40, or is it just an expensive way, albeit very precise way, of applying dowel joints to a project?
The shelf pin facility sounds very handy, and I guess some would buy the machine just for this function.

Also, unlike a Domino machine, using a single dowel in certain applications won’t provide the strength or stability of a Domino or tenon.
Just wondered what your overall thoughts on the machine are, apart from the plunge issue?

 

[Llap Goch]

In theory this is a cracking machine, in practise it suffers from a number of problems which combine both quality/design control and user requirements.

Mine failed twice because the switch would not stay engaged and power the machine. It was fixed temporarily, as suggested by Mafell, by removing the cover and 'flattening' the wires going into the switch. I say temporarily as it worked for about 5 plunges and then reverted to the original fault. It was not the first time that Mafell had heard of it as a known fault and their response was either faulty switch, faulty wiring, faulty assembly or a dip in quality control.

Irrespective of all that, mine was returned. One stab at a first impression and all that.

When it was working I noted the following points:

1. Difficult to plunge in MDF and hard woods, it felt as if the machine was struggling (240v).

2. Absolute precision required in the finished cut surface and dimension of your material. There is no slack or wiggle room as there is on both my Domino machines which forgive a degree of innacuraccy and allow for a modicum of adjustment.

3. The depth stop moves forward when you plunge against it.

4. The red pin attachments are plastic and flex. I was concerned at their longevity and continued accuracy.

5. The shelf pin attachment is smaller than the 5mm hole the machine drills and must be pushed hard against the wall of the first plunge or you will introduce a cummulative error with each plunge. This results in shelf pins that are out of alignment and whilst I accept that is likely to be in-attention on my part, the rational of the machine is to speed up work. There is a cure for this by purchasing the template accessory but that makes an expensive machine even more expensive.

6. The Mafell bits are outrageously expensive and the CMT equivalents are as good, if not better, but are not the exact size in both diameter and length.

Back to the Domino's, my original metal prong 500 was one of the first in the UK and hasn't skipped a beat. It has plunged every size, has done so with absolute accuracy when required and allowed a bit of assembly wiggle when needed. My 700 has not done as many plunges but when it has I have experienced exactly the same results as its baby sister.

The Mafell was an enormous disappointment to me. I have several of their tools and love 'em but the DDF40 was not one of them.

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

Yes, to be honest, that doesn't make good reading, and also shatters the Mafell dream a little, as I've always held them in high regard but, being perfect with every aspect of every tool, is probably a tall order. It seems though, that they have gone back a little with this machine, instead of progressing. I don't remember hearing of these issues on the original?

The fact there is not wiggle room or tolerance on the cuts, isn't a concern for me, as i find that facility a contradiction in terms with such a machine. What I mean is, a joint should always be a tight joint to be durable and serve it's purpose. I never use the tolerance settings on my Domino machines, and certainly wouldn't want it when working with dowels but, that's opinion, and how i was taught as an apprentice.

I have a few Mafell tools now that I'm very happy with but, even with premium brands, I like to research. That's what makes this forum so good, there's lots of honesty.

I thought this machine might offer me some extra options, and it may well be the case but, I'm not so sure now is the right time to buy one. sounds like the design needs tweaking, and possibly the power?

I'm saving for an Erika anyway, so I think I'll move on from the DDf 40  [wink]

 

[Birdhunter]

I've had my DDF40 for a couple of weeks and have experimented with it extensively.

My only negative is that it takes a surprisingly large amount of force to drill the 2 holes with the 8mm bits (through MDF, pine, and oak so far). The motor does not sound like it is bogging down at all. My suspicion is that the bit design is a mismatch for the rotational speed. I have tried running the DDF directly from the wall socket and through my Festool vac thinking the vac limited the current available to the DDF. I could not tell any difference. Oddly, the force required seems to be slightly diminishing as I use the machine.

The build quality is amazingly good. The accuracy is exceptional. The ergonomics are just right. The accessories are truly useful.

If Mafell missed the boat on this machine it is that the Plug-it power cord would be great.

I have both Domino machines, and now, the DDF. There are definitely overlaps, but each machine has a sweet spot for which it is perfect. After using the DDF, I wish Festool would offer the pin locators on the Dominos instead of the flappers.

 

[PeterJJames13]

I'm certainly no expert on Mafell (or Festool for that matter lol), but I will say this. The DDF40 is new. The older model is the DD40P. The older DD40P has (I believe) a higher RPM than the new DDF40. 13,500 RPM on the DD40P vs the 8,000 on the DDF40. I do find the older DD40P is easier to plunge, but it doesn't have some of the newer accessories that the DDF40 offers. Just some food for thought.

 

[Michael Kellough]

If my DDF40 lived long enough to complete this one project I’d keep it even though it might be a long time before I chose it for a task over the Domino. I’d rather have more tools than fewer.

I am very impressed by the attachments, they’re excellent. Everything fits in the Sys in an easily accessible way. I even like the little glue bottle.

The electrical fault in my machine might be the control board rather than the switch so I’m not really sure the bits where spinning at the designed speed. The machine was quieter than I expected. The Domino 500 is noisier but it also has additional mechanical movements.

The “big” Duo bits spin 68% faster and the motor receives 11% more power than the DDF40 but as has been said it didn’t seem like the motor was struggling when I was (trying to apply enough force to keep the bits going forward). Maybe a bit redesign would make a difference.

It’s been said that you need to push the tail of the motor housing. This is true. Ignore the nice comfortable rubber over-molded grips behind the switch. Pushing from there will cause the machine to jam on the guide rails which are on the opposite side of the axis of the bits. The guide rails on the Domino are better positioned so grip position isn’t as critical.

The depth stop is soft, it’s just a small bit of plastic with a screw in the end for “fine tuning” the depth. Since the stop is so elastic there doesn’t seem to be much value in turning that screw. Should be aluminum at least.

On the fence, the reddish plastic depth indicator is prone to produce parallax error. When the quick stop is set to 11mm (fairly accurate) the red depth indicator can be read as anywhere from 10 to 12mm depending on your eye position so setting the fence to a custom depth could take while.

I’ll finish my IKEA cabinet mod project with screws and either hand jigged dowels or Dominos. It will take longer to use the dowel jig but I’d spend time beveling the ends of Dominos (so they don’t dislodge bits of particle board going in).

 

[Laminator]

I've found drilling 8mm holes to be much easier if I sort of jam the dd40 in with a quick hard push on the heel of the machine.  The harder and faster I  shove the better.  Trying to plunge slowly simply does not work.  Most of my Dowling is with 8 x 50 mm dowels for which I plunge 26mm depth in MDF,  particle board, and plywood.  Shelf pin holes are super simple with yhe terribly expensive extension template.

 

[Birdhunter]

I have been experimenting with the DDF with a project the incorporates 4 legs forming a double X. The 4 legs actually are formed in 2 pieces. There is a central “hub” that connects everything together. The hub is about 1” square and about 3” long.

I first tried the joining with Dominos, but the mortises ate up too much of the hub.

The DDF was bought just for this project (provided an excuse).

I was able to space 4 8mm dowels down each side of the hub and down the butt of each leg.

So, that is 16 dowels and 32 holes that have to line up perfectly. They did.

I have to admit I was a little surprised.

 

[jeh]

Yes, to be honest, that doesn't make good reading, and also shatters the Mafell dream a little, as I've always held them in high regard but, being perfect with every aspect of every tool, is probably a tall order. It seems though, that they have gone back a little with this machine, instead of progressing. I don't remember hearing of these issues on the original?

The fact there is not wiggle room or tolerance on the cuts, isn't a concern for me, as i find that facility a contradiction in terms with such a machine. What I mean is, a joint should always be a tight joint to be durable and serve it's purpose. I never use the tolerance settings on my Domino machines, and certainly wouldn't want it when working with dowels but, that's opinion, and how i was taught as an apprentice.

I have a few Mafell tools now that I'm very happy with but, even with premium brands, I like to research. That's what makes this forum so good, there's lots of honesty.

I thought this machine might offer me some extra options, and it may well be the case but, I'm not so sure now is the right time to buy one. sounds like the design needs tweaking, and possibly the power?

I'm saving for an Erika anyway, so I think I'll move on from the DDf 40  [wink]

It should not shatter your dream. It is one persons opinion and just that and it sounds to me like he was looking for a reason to not justify returning it. Everyone has different opinions and experiences so I am not discounting his, but there are plenty of others out there who are to the country. Try out the Mafell user group for some alternate opinions. Granted they are biased to a degree since it is a Mafell group, but Mafell is by no means involved in anyway with it nor is it as popular.