New member seeks advice on Domino & MFT 3

[Charlie Hill]

Hi All

I have had a TS 55 for about 18 months with 1.4m guide rail and at the beginning of this year added a 2.7m rail. A couple of months ago I got a Domino DF500 and domino assortment. Last month I got an MFT 3.

So now that I have used these tools a little I have some questions to stop me going wrong please!

MFT 3

When I set this up I think I must have done something wrong as the guide rail does not sit level on the workpiece - non cutting side of the rail is marginally higher, but the splinter strip side sits flush on the workpiece. How do I adjust that please?

If I try to cut very small parts the rail does not hold them securely enough and consequently when the saw is pushed through it tends to slide the workpiece end that is not supported by the sliding fence away from the saw. This results in an out of square cut. How should I overcome this issue please?

How do you cut very thin material i.e. thinner than the sliding fence as if you move it out of the way it is harder to get the workpiece square to the guide rail?

Domino DF 500

My machine has the "lugs" (not pins) and they don't seem to fit into the mortices - using 6mm domino - so how can I use these to set out the mortices if they don't fit?

Guide Rails - Marking Out Errors

Well this problem is my fault entirely!

I cannot seem to manage to mark out on the workpiece at each end the same measurement, probably as due to age my sight is not as sharp as it used to be. I use a decent quality tape measure, then draw a line about 50 mm long with a pencil against an engineers square held tight against the edge of the workpiece. I then offer the splinter guard up to these lines. However I seem to end up being anything up to 1 mm out most times.

Any suggestions to remedy my errors would be appreciated.

No doubt once I have used the tools some more I will have more questions!

Charlie

 

[semenza]

Hi Charlie,

Welcome to the FOG!  [smile]

On the marking  to set the guide rail.  I would say that in effect the method you are using is prone to introduce errors.  I have used your method and others over the years and always found that I was off using the method you describe.

  Places for that to go wrong and introduce error are-----

    It can be hard to tell if the tape is being held at a  perfect right angle to the edge you are measuring from. If the angle is off it will shorten the distance from the edge to your mark. And equally important the two marks may not be at the same distance.

    Using the square to make the mark into a line from the end of the piece is counting on the piece as a whole to be perfectly square. If that is off then the line you make through the mark will be slightly askew.

    The simple fact that you are effectively marking twice for each measurement can introduce error.

Try to find ways to eliminate some of the above-------

  Use  a large square or story stick or even a rule set against a smaller square to measure from the edge of the piece.

  Find a way to make the mark/line as  part of the same operation as the measurement.

  Square the cut the piece (don't count on sheet goods to be perfectly square) before  you start marking for pieces. That will ensure you have square reference edges.

I use Woodpecker's  T-Squares to mark for guide rail placement. They create the type of mark you are doing but remove the potential for errors ( except human error). I am not sure if you can get them in the UK.

Seth

 

[mouppe]

Re the domino question, the lugs are used to register the domino against the outside edge of the workpiece, not the inside of the mortise. If you have the cross stops, the pins on these can be used inside the mortises.

Re the guide rail, are you sure the splinter guard edge is actually your cut line. Could the splinter guard have slipped and moved away from the blade?

 

[sancho57]

There are several ways to solve the issues you have described.
They are not unusual as we all have experienced the same issue.

I have some links that I saved.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-how-to/how-to-efficiently-rip-a-bunch-of-strips-with-a-track-saw/

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/how-i-rip-ff-and-door-pieces/

http://www.tool-home.com/products/catalog/festool_domino.php

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-how-to/4x8-sheet-goods-breakdown-with-the-parallel-guides/

All the info is here on the site.

lots of good stuff here

Hope this helps

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Charlie

You have the Domino answer - the pins that used to be on the older models and are now on the large DF700 are much better. I keep my paddles out of the way all of the time and never use them.

The marking errors can be due to many things.

 - I now need 2x glasses for really accurate marking and I use a fine pencil.

 - When you have a piece of stock on the MFT3 to be cut using the rail then the piece on the right has the kerf thickness taken from it during the cut. If you measure from the right edge and then do the cut then the cut will be your measurement minus the kerf (I have made this mistake several times). If you measure from the left edge of your stock then make the cut then it will be cut to the size measured.

 - I have been using my anniversary Stanley tape for all of my accurate work for several years. I checked my rule when I bought it but have now found that it is out by 1mm. Somehow the moving tag must have worn or move more than before. When I buy squares I check them in the shop by comparing them in pairs. I will now take more care when buying a new tape rule and check it with a 1m rule before buying.

 - If you use a wooden folding rule then you will get some parallax error if you are not directly over the gradation when you make your mark.

I am not sure about the twist in the guide on the MFT 3. I no longer use the setup that came with the MFT3 as I get more accurate results by using other methods.

You have a really nice starter set of Festool tools. The Domino and TS55 (with the rails) are game changers. I assume that you have a CT - if not then get one. The Rotex sanders are astonishing and the RO90 is a great one to start with as it has the delta mode as well as orbital and rotary modes. The routers are fabulous and the OF1400 is a really sweet yet very powerful and versatile. If your tools earn you money then consider the Kapex.

Good luck.

Peter

 

[sancho57]

Peter,

I ashamed of you.

You held back the most important secret of using festools.

The festool watch, when you set the time ahead on it, it makes thing go faster.

I am deeply deeply disurbed by this

  [big grin]

 

[Stone Message]

Peter,

I ashamed of you.

You held back the most important secret of using festools.

The festool watch, when you set the time ahead on it, it makes thing go faster.

I am deeply deeply disurbed by this

 [big grin]

Hi Ron

I did not think that Charlie would know about (h)our little secret. Besides, the watches are so rare that I doubt whether he would have a chance to get one. He can always watch the video!

Peter

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

I recommend to also check your engineer's square for 90 degree accuracy.  When I first started, I used an Empire square from Home Depot (made in China) that was not truly square ...and then I bought a used Mitutoyo ( supposed to be the best) on eBay. Everything was off by a mm.  (Turns out, the square was probably dropped a hundred times and the seller was just trying to get rid of it to some sucker...like moi.)
  I next bought a Woodpecker 1281 square.  This new square showed me that the first two squares were not true. Wow! Overnight, I became a better craftsman.  Next, I found some videos on youtube that demonstrated how to calibrate and square the MFT.  Voila! Perfect cuts! Now, I feel like anything is possible! Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[Charlie Hill]

Thank you all for the helpful and informative replies. I will work through these suggestions and see how I get on.

On Thursday the Festool rep is calling to see me as I am considering either the CTL 26 or Midi dust extractors to compliment my set up. I am undecided as to which would be better. The Midi would be more portable which would be helpful for the odd occasions I do work in a customer's home, but I am concerned that the filter bag would need constant replacing. Think how much dust accumulates when you rout a 20 mm x 6 mm groove for panel doors in MDF! The CTL would I think cope with the volume of dust but not sure I would fancy carrying it up 3 flights of narrow stairs as I had to do earlier this year [unsure]

What do you guys think?

 

[Stone Message]

I have the CTL 26. The bags are very clever as they are efficient right to the end. You can always get a long life bag if you want. I have had to carry it around a few times but not much. I bet that the bag advantage will easily outweigh the portability for you. Anyway, you are probably young and fit and just think how the CT will help you maintain your fitness if you do have a 3 flighter sometime in the future!

Peter

 

[Charlie Hill]

Unfortunately Peter I cannot claim to be either young or fit anymore as I have just had my 60th birthday. I'll have to see how I get on with the rep on Thursday.

 

[barnowl]

Thank you all for the helpful and informative replies. I will work through these suggestions and see how I get on.

On Thursday the Festool rep is calling to see me as I am considering either the CTL 26 or Midi dust extractors to compliment my set up. I am undecided as to which would be better. The Midi would be more portable which would be helpful for the odd occasions I do work in a customer's home, but I am concerned that the filter bag would need constant replacing. Think how much dust accumulates when you rout a 20 mm x 6 mm groove for panel doors in MDF! The CTL would I think cope with the volume of dust but not sure I would fancy carrying it up 3 flights of narrow stairs as I had to do earlier this year [unsure]

What do you guys think?

Charlie, I'm older than you are, and I bought the 26, specifically because of the bag, though I seldom take it to a jobsite.

It lasts a long time compared to the bag in my older 22.

 

[Charlie Hill]

.....

I am not sure about the twist in the guide on the MFT 3. I no longer use the setup that came with the MFT3 as I get more accurate results by using other methods.

........

Peter.

Just re read your reply and now wonder what you meant by the last sentence above? Could you elaborate please?

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Charlie,

The guide clamp arrangement that comes with the MFT3 is okay but for really accurate (and repeatable) work there are better ways. Several people have developed special bench dogs that allow the work piece to be set against stops in a horizontal row and the rail is then pushed against stops in a vertical column. Mine are called 'Parf Dogs' but there are several other variations that achieve the same thing. I am not sure but I think that Qwas will have their own solution to this. They all rely on the MFT rows and columns of holes being precisely at right angles. Paul Marcel has some useful guidance in this area on his early MFT videos.

Here is a 'Parf Dog' video link:

EDIT- THE OLD VIDEO HAS BEEN REMOVED

Here is the new video with the Veritas Parf Dogs from Lee Valley...



Peter

 

[Charlie Hill]

Unfortunately Peter I cannot claim to be either young or fit anymore as I have just had my 60th birthday. I'll have to see how I get on with the rep on Thursday.

Peter

For various reasons I could not meet the rep until Tuesday 15 Oct. Once I saw the size of the CTL26 v Midi v my current vac I decided that you were right to suggest the 26. So took delivery of one yesterday! Not had a chance to try it properly yet but initial reaction is that it is very good.

The rep recommended the Tradesmen cleaning kit - 454766 - but I think it is a bit pricey at nearly half the price of the vac

What would you suggest - workshop and occasional site use - please?

 

[Stone Message]

Unfortunately Peter I cannot claim to be either young or fit anymore as I have just had my 60th birthday. I'll have to see how I get on with the rep on Thursday.

Peter

For various reasons I could not meet the rep until Tuesday 15 Oct. Once I saw the size of the CTL26 v Midi v my current vac I decided that you were right to suggest the 26. So took delivery of one yesterday! Not had a chance to try it properly yet but initial reaction is that it is very good.

The rep recommended the Tradesmen cleaning kit - 454766 - but I think it is a bit pricey at nearly half the price of the vac

What would you suggest - workshop and occasional site use - please?

Over the years I have always kept those extension tubes and tools that are used with domestic vacuums rather than throw them away when buying a new machine. I certainly would not pay half the price of a CT for a set even if it were gold plated. The only Festool addition that I have is their small crevice tool and the little round brush that fits on the end of either the 27 or 36 mm hose.

Peter

 

[fidelfs]

I bought the Bosch version made of plastic, it works ok and it fits the Festool hose.  It is the Bosch VAC011 Vacuum Cleaner Wand Kit, the price it is reasonable.
There is not systainer, but that is ok.  It only adds to increase the price for something that it shouldn't be expensive.

I don't know if this is available on UK, I couldn't find it on Amazon UK.  I bought in Amazon and the prices is $53.75.  The crevice tool and round brush that Peter mentioned are identical with Festool. 

Here is the link from the US site: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AV79Z/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Charlie Hill]

Sorry for the delay in responding. I discovered a few days ago that the pieces from my old vac will fit the CTL26 ....... result [big grin]

 

[sancho57]

I usually use a broom and a bench brush w/ a dust pan for the shop, and just the CT w/ the hose to clean the MFT.

But Im a bit old fashion that way.

Im 60 y.o. too

 

[Slappy]

WoodCraft has this kit on sale right now $15.oo not a complete solution but piece of the puzzle  [cool]

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2085969/44679/VACCUFLEX-Nozzle-Kit.aspx