new member

[finley]

Hi everyone. I'm a new member, long time wonderer of the website. seen some really nice stuff on here.
thought i would start posting a few things that i have made.

iv been working for a timber framing company for the last 3 years and now i am setting up my own company making furniture and bespoke joinery, i would be very grateful for some advice.
more to come soon

 

[Theshipstore]

First let me say  [welcome] to FOG.
Next let me say my equipment expenses, not materials are taken in my hourly rate, for me its part of doing business.
I really like the timber work on that home its awesome

Sal

 

[Alan m]

welcomr to the fog.

stunning work.
i would include tool costs in the hourly rate but consumables as materials. 1 drill bit might last 12 months or 12 minutes. no way of knowing. i dont think it is fair to include those costs in your hourly rate  as those jobs that dont use drill bits  will get charged.
i put all bits, routerbits (or  a percentage of the cost related to use),sandpaper ,vac bags, etc in as materials

 

[jmbfestool]

Welcome!

4th picture now that's the stuff I would like to get my hands on doing.

Nice!

 

[woodguy7]

Stunning work, love your furniture.  What is the 3rd picture ?  That is some house, the 2nd to last one  ;D

 

[ericbuggeln]

Dont trust that someone will pay you, just bc they promise they will. Get a substantial amount of money up front and then a final payment or mid and final payment depending on the overall cost of the job. Make it clear when you will be expecting a mid payment, so everyone is on the same page. If you do anything outside of the contract, which happens every job, then write it as an amendment and give customer extra costs up front, otherwise youre doing it for free. Good luck, Eric

 

[sancho57]

Dont trust that someone will pay you, just bc they promise they will. Get a substantial amount of money up front and then a final payment or mid and final payment depending on the overall cost of the job. Make it clear when you will be expecting a mid payment, so everyone is on the same page. If you do anything outside of the contract, which happens every job, then write it as an amendment and give customer extra costs up front, otherwise youre doing it for free. Good luck, Eric

Dont forget to have the customer initial the amendment as accepting and agreeing to the extra cost. Old saying around here, If it isnt written it didnt happen.

 

[woodguy7]

That's some good advise from Eric & Sancho.

 

[finley]

thanks for all the advice ;D the third picture is a cigar box and the top slides on dovetails. i will be putting up more pictures of my work soon

 

[Wooden Lungs]

Hi and welcome.
I do not include drill bits or blades etc in my pricing. The reason for this is simple. If you were to walk into a barbers and get your hair cut you would be upset if he asked you for extra money to cover the cost of the wear on his scissors and clippers! Whether or not this cost is openly advertised or added without your knowledge.

One drill bit will cover many jobs for me. I take care with all my blades and router bits etc and get as much mileage out of them as possible. Hence why would I sting one individual for something I am potentially going to use for several jobs. Of course instant disposables like rubble sacks ,sandpaper etc can be included in clients costs.

I stopped working with a guy a few years back because I found out he had added the cost of a makita site radio onto the clients bill without her knowing.
This is a bit of an extreme example I admit but I took him aside and paid him all his outstanding money and told him to take a jump.
His wife later rang me up complaining that everyone was doing this type of thing!!!! So I can only assume that lots of people add stuff on to their costs like drill bits and blades etc. Most of us on here in the UK are also self
employed and can claim this stuff anyway on tool expences so why should I add it to the clients bill? [sad] Well I refuse to rip off clients without their knowledge.
Its very very rare for me to use blades or drill bits on something that will kill them with one use. If this was the case I would hunt around the workshop and find some crapping old bits to use first.

So am I to believe that if a Carpenter/Joiner charges a client extra for drill bits or router bits to do the particular job for a client he leaves THEIR property behind when he packs up his tools? If I went to a restaurant and had a meal and they added on the cost of the cutlery can I take it home with me????? Come on........

I know some will jump down my throat now and tell me I'm wrong! This is just my opinion and moral.

By the way I love your work. you have already left your mark mate [smile] I hope you put some coins in those Oak mortices......

 

[peter halle]

I also don't charge extra for bits and blades with two exceptions:

1.     If I know that due to the nature of the job situation a bit or blade will go from new to trash, then I will charge for it.
2.     If the bit (usually router bits) is required for the job and probably will never be used again, then I will charge for it.

Peter

 

[jmbfestool]

I also don't charge extra for bits and blades with two exceptions:

1.     If I know that due to the nature of the job situation a bit or blade will go from new to trash, then I will charge for it.
2.     If the bit (usually router bits) is required for the job and probably will never be used again, then I will charge for it.

Peter

+1 what Pete said!  Ill still charge!   If the bit is very expensive and is specially bought for the job even though it might be a handy bit for me to have any way and can still be used many of times for future jobs   but thats my bonus  [big grin]

 

[Alan m]

when i charge for router bits specifically. it is based on usage and whether i had to buy it specifically for that job (special design speced  when normal cutters would do). if a bit is  one i cant see myself ever needing and they made me buy it then  they will pay full(usually keep it as bonus unless they say they want it when asked.
expencive  normal profile bits i charge by usage. if a bit costs 50 euro and their job uses it a lot  then they might pay 1/2 the cost, if it is only used for one cut then no charge usually.

.
i rarly charge for blade specifically (included in hourly)  but have on ocasion charged a resharpning cost on some materials or a lot of cuts.
i would charge for jigsaw blades by quantity used on the job.
disposable bits (small bits, metal bits, sds bits, hole saws) all wear fast and are easily blunted or broken so i charge by usage or quantity used. holesaws mostly  and small bits.
recipricating saw blade  arent worth keeping after most first uses  so are  dumped in the bottom of the tool box for dirty jobs, charged by qty used
sand paper by qty used or minimum qty bought ( if i had to buy a 10 box specifically only for their job situation (some odd paper ))
screws i carge by the box . if i use half a box of 50mms and half a box of 100mms i will charge for a box of 100mms  and  keep the other half of the box to pay for the other screws. it all balences out
lots of other things  like glue etc i just add a few euro (depending on how many odd bit were used) .

as for the barbers  scissors , you are being charged for the wear  , it is included in the houry rate , or at least it should.
being charged for cutlery in a resturant is completely different  as they dont wear  down ( but there is a replacment charge factored into the total price of the meal , even if it is only one cent)

 

[sancho57]

I charge ut its included in the bid as the cost of doing business.

It will not be listed as a separate line item on the bid.

It would be included in my hourly shop rate along with other things screws, glue, sand paper, electricity, etc everything is included in the shop rate.

You have to know the cost to do business inorder to give a bid and be able to stay in business.

Ootherwise ou'll be negative on every project.

You cant stay in business losing money.

 

[tiralie]

thought i would start posting a few things that i have made.

Nice work. I like that cabinet with the lime green. Is it for a Paul Smith shop?

i would be very grateful for some advice.

1)  The (true) purpose of business is to create a customer (Drucker). Without a customer you have no business, so as a business owner your real job is finding customers (marketing) who value your service and innovating (differentiating) to separate yourself from the competition.
2) Your potential customers don't care how much overhead you have to pay for. If they don't value your service you won't be able to charge for the overhead you thought you needed.
3) Overhead will kill you. Make sure you are charging enough to cover anticipated overhead before you get it. These days there is a lot of underutilized capacity, so there is always a way to get things done without investing in a lot of overhead right away.
Hope that helps.
Tim

 

[finley]

thought i would start posting a few things that i have made.

Nice work. I like that cabinet with the lime green. Is it for a Paul Smith shop?

i would be very grateful for some advice.

1)  The (true) purpose of business is to create a customer (Drucker). Without a customer you have no business, so as a business owner your real job is finding customers (marketing) who value your service and innovating (differentiating) to separate yourself from the competition.
2) Your potential customers don't care how much overhead you have to pay for. If they don't value your service you won't be able to charge for the overhead you thought you needed.
3) Overhead will kill you. Make sure you are charging enough to cover anticipated overhead before you get it. These days there is a lot of underutilized capacity, so there is always a way to get things done without investing in a lot of overhead right away.
Hope that helps.
Tim

thanks for the advice Tim, the cabinet was made for a clothing shop that sells paul smith and was designed for stuff like aftershave and wallets