New membership numbers on the FOG

[justaguy]

The current state of politics and associated discussions in the US is such that many cannot participate without demonizing and degrading those with opposing views.

As an owners group or a community, I would rather we focus on our common interests and what brings us together rather than introducing subjects that may divide us.

When I want to discuss politics I'll do so in a political forum.

 

[Wooden Skye]

Discussing politics and other social issues can get out of hand quickly and rather not have in this forum.

I do agree that there should be some higher level of management involved when need be.  Tyler does his best to provide the information, but sometimes doesn't have all the info to properly answer topics or questions raised, because he wasn't provided, so at those times someone up the festool ladder should participate.

 

[DrD]

I joined a few years back to learn, specifically how to use the Festool tools; which ones would be of benefit to me, and which ones would not.  Back then we had some very positive and informative posts from any number of people who do not post much any more - I'll hasten to add there are great posts currently, but not by the wider number of posters which existed a couple of years ago.

Additionally, since this is a FESTOOL site, the input from and reaction by Festool is abysmal; some little, some not so little.  Little things like a Splinterguard which works on the TS75 at normal cutting depths when working with ply; little things like a pigtail for non-Plugit corded tools (specifically, the RAS 115, PS2, EHL 65, OF2200); big things like the truth about the Kapex issue; big things like prices, especially in light of the Deutsch mark/Euro vs the $USA, and so many others.

And, and air of divisiveness wherein the post(s) and reply(s) become(s) an attack of some type, which is never constructive seems to have become much more prevalent in spite of the ban on controversial issues. 

I would hope for more information pointing out the features, advantages, benefits of Festool, and how to, by using Festool, work faster, easier smarter.  I would hope the literal cornucopia of informative videos in German and other languages could be translated to English (either the King's  or Southern) and shared on this site.

This is still a good site, but it seems to me to have fallen far, far short of its potential.

 

[TylerC]

I would hope for more information pointing out the features, advantages, benefits of Festool, and how to, by using Festool, work faster, easier smarter.

Depending on how you envision the execution of this, I disagree on this one. We/I can do a better job of answer questions. However, I  think the content should be driven by users, and this shouldn't become just a place of us to publish promotional/sales material.

That said, the North American team has plans to increase our amount of content -- videos, tutorials, etc. -- in 2017. Repurposing some German-language videos will likely be part of that.

 

[Stephen B]

I'm not surprised . . . .

...and I am going back to a classic film - The National Lampoons Christmas Vacation..... [wink] and a beer, have a good one all  [wink]
rg
Phil

[size=14pt]
[member=41214]Phil Beckley[/member]  Film or reality?
If reality, it might be safer here on the FOG!  [big grin]  [blink]


__________________

[member=60286]bobfog[/member]

I agree that perhaps the FOG requires a little more 'spirit' but certainly not around the topics you suggest.  [eek]

 

[Cheese]

Sorry Bob...I'm not a fan of number 4 either, and it's not because I don't have strong opinions in those areas and it's certainly not because I dislike firearms, because that's what started me machining metals...the precision and fit of the mating parts in firearms.

However, when discussing these issues in person, you're able to be aware of body language, facial expressions and tenor of voice, which then means you have the ability to back off or the other person has the ability to back off which ultimately leads to a civilized conversation.

With the web...not so much, these conversational nuances seldom make it thru the fog of the Internet and the "conversation" can rapidly escalate into a brawl. We've already seen it with some of the Kapex threads where people, united in their universal appreciation of the brand name tool, can almost come to fisticuffs over the tool because of a very small difference in opinion. 

Think how that same discussion would play out if the conversationalists were widely divergent in their opinion.   

I agree, a little more free reign would be nice, but I do think the mods have done a good job on allowing people to be heard without having to put a boot on their throat.

 

[Danimalx23]

Evening everyone, Happy Holidays!

I just got a new RO 125 FEQ for Christmas and a CT48 to go with it. I signed up on the forums looking for some advice on how to control her a bit, as she bucks around something fierce. Coming from a DeWalt with no issues other than melting the hook and loop pads, I was feeling quite noobish.

I've been a forum user for many years, only new to FOG.  I've noticed a few things that maybe someone would agree with, having an "outsiders" perspective.  My favorite forum that's on the line, would be the Dedicated Theater Build section of AVS Forums.  Over there you have people following some threads for multiple years and excited to come back daily to check for updates. One thing I've seen there that I haven't noticed here, is the abundance of project photos, and personal stories. They have quite a bit of side chatter, revolving around home theaters, but not always completely on point.  I can understand how quickly a thread can derail if people become too passionate about hot button issues such as politics or religion, but there's only so much you can read about the "break in" period that some sanders apparently benefit from, before you go back to google and other message boards.

Admittedly I haven't seen much of the forum outside of the support area, but what I have read has been civil and helpful, just lacking that hook to keep someone coming back after that initial question has been answered.  Looking forward to figuring out my new sander and getting back to making sawdust.  o7

-Dan

 

[JBird]

I have felt for a while that the internet "golden age" of Festool has passed. I was not basing this on forum participation but on user generated content like Youtube videos and fan sites. Just off the top of my head:

1. Paul-Marcell at HalfInchShy no longer generating Festool videos
2. Wood Whisperer no longer using Festool
3. Bryce Burrell not generating content lately
4. Eric from The Popular Shop seems to be  losing Festool enthusiasm and moving to Bosch
5. Dave Reinhold slowing production of content
6. Braden Stadlman no longer producing content

The only prolific creator of Festool content that I am aware of right now is Peter at New Brit Workshop and he seems to be decreasing the proportion of his content dedicated to Festool. Naturally, any individual creator can tire of what they are doing and want to pursue other interests. But taken in the aggregate, and in the absence of new content producers, it seems like a profound change.

However, I would not extrapolate any of this to the health of Festool USA. They appear to be doing very well.

 

[Kevin D.]

I don't post near as frequent as I used to, BUT i still have it in my homepage group when I open my browser.  Allow #4 and I would most likely remove it.  I've left other good forums that have done similar or simply lost control of the reigns.

 

[Roseland]

I have felt for a while that the internet "golden age" of Festool has passed. I was not basing this on forum participation but on user generated content like Youtube videos and fan sites. Just off the top of my head:

1. Paul-Marcell at HalfInchShy no longer generating Festool videos
2. Wood whisper no longer using Festool
3. Bryce Burrell not generating content lately
4. Eric from The Popular Shop seems to be  losing Festool enthusiasm and moving to Bosch
5. Dave Reinhold slowing production of content
6. Braden Stadlman no longer producing content

The only prolific creator of Festool content that I am aware of right now is Peter at New Brit Workshop and he seems to be decreasing the proportion of his content dedicated to Festool. Naturally, any individual creator can tire of what they are doing and want to pursue other interests. But taken in the aggregate, and in the absence of new content producers, it seems like a profound change.

However, I would not extrapolate any of this to the health of Festool USA. They appear to be doing very well.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

Andrew

 

[SMJoinery]

Hello all.
I haven't posted in a long time but I still pop in once in a while looking for a great thread. Did so this morning and spotted this and wanted to comment.
Some of the above comments are valid but some cause and effect must also be borne by some members.
I cannot comment recently but several months past some comments on several threads and posts were derogatory to the contributor and I know of several members who will not return to the site having been on the receiving end of these posts.
Personally I was not, however seeing these posts continuing to develop into a slanging match or degrading into character assassination is enough to put some completely off. This may explain some of the reduction in new members joining as all posts are visible to members / non members alike.
I love the FOG and value greatly the memberships experience. I have learned a great deal from members here and continue to do so.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Scott

 

[TylerC]

I have felt for a while that the internet "golden age" of Festool has passed. I was not basing this on forum participation but on user generated content like Youtube videos and fan sites. Just off the top of my head:

1. Paul-Marcell at HalfInchShy no longer generating Festool videos
2. Wood Whisperer no longer using Festool
3. Bryce Burrell not generating content lately
4. Eric from The Popular Shop seems to be  losing Festool enthusiasm and moving to Bosch
5. Dave Reinhold slowing production of content
6. Braden Stadlman no longer producing content

The only prolific creator of Festool content that I am aware of right now is Peter at New Brit Workshop and he seems to be decreasing the proportion of his content dedicated to Festool. Naturally, any individual creator can tire of what they are doing and want to pursue other interests. But taken in the aggregate, and in the absence of new content producers, it seems like a profound change.

However, I would not extrapolate any of this to the health of Festool USA. They appear to be doing very well.

This is an interesting point, but I’d counter it by pointing to content creators like Kiefer Limeback (Toolaholic), Paul Sprague (Toolpig), Drywall Nation, Toolify, David Stanton, A Concord Carpenter, Canadian Woodworks and others. Not all of this is video content, but they’re all doing interesting things.

None of these guys is 100% Festool, but I personally prefer it that way. I appreciate that we’re getting more content from people who use tools from a variety of manufacturers and can’t be accused of “drinking the green Kool-Aid”.

I don’t see a drop in user-generated content. I think it’s just coming from a different people — and possibly getting less content from more people.

 

[jimbo51]

I agree with what Cheese said about internet vs face to face discussions. Some topics get out of hand very fast. If you want to see a small sample of how bad it can get, try the discussion forums on Craigs List, which are only moderately moderated.

 

[bobfog]

Ok I yield.

Maybe, judging by the responses, politics and contentious current affairs would not be the best for this forum.

I don't think the concept is wrong, as it works fine on other forums, but maybe the average blue collar demographic of a powertool forum's user base isn't the right one compared with the type of people who frequent, for example; high-end HiFi forums or photography groups, etc.

Maybe the average FOG user isn't so well versed in such topical and potentially contentious discussions, so it's easier for it to breakdown into anarchy than be discussed in a mature and civilised manner.

 

[Cochese]

Maybe the average FOG user isn't so well versed in such topical and potentially contentious discussions, so it's easier for it to breakdown into anarchy than be discussed in a mature and civilised manner.

You know, I'm having trouble coming up with a response to this that would allow me to retain my forum status here.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

One can only talk about festool so much.  Plus people get busy with other stuff in their lives.

I am barely on any forums now, between my new shop, work, machinery sales, trying to get custody of my kids, and all the new things going on in my life, forums are at the end of the list.

 

[junk731]

Average Festool user is here to learn about Festool products and techniques typically but not exclusively related to woodworking, not political discussion. We have lost a lot of good contributors because of these discussions and one would only know that from long term viewing. I also feel that we have lost many potential members because of these discussions. Keep politics, religion, gun debates, etc. where they belong, not on a woodworking tool forum.

Festool in my humble opinion has done a great job in allowing open discussions, especially on problems with their products, much more open than any of us thought when Daniel handed over the reins of his experiment. Not bad for a corporation run forum and I don't really know of another quite like it.

There have been many good contributions made to the forum that are no longer visible for some reasons unknown to me. Many members that have made great videos or picture essays, have another life and moved on, while many lurk just to keep up and see if there is anything really new or the same old, same old. Unfortunately its usually the same old topics rehashed which is the nature of these forums in general.

John

 

[justaguy]

[big grin] Maybe someday we will be worthy of joining a "high-end hifi or photography forum".

Maybe the average FOG user isn't so well versed in such topical and potentially contentious discussions, so it's easier for it to breakdown into anarchy than be discussed in a mature and civilised manner.

You know, I'm having trouble coming up with a response to this that would allow me to retain my forum status here.

 

[clark_fork]

The reduction in numbers demonstrates the typical life-cycle of innovative Website content.

The life-cycle has five steps.

1. Discovery- Users find their way here, largely due to the process of seeking information.
2. Absorption Phase- There is outstanding content here with good search capabilities
3. Refinement Phase- Some specifics are very easily obtained
4. Supplementary Phase-Users can build on the initial information
5. Maintenance-Staleness sets in and there is no need to check in as frequently. Through FOG, users discover other sources of information and content such as supplier catalogs, You-Tube other websites.

The numbers show that FOG has reached the maintenance level. There are two factor that often go unnoticed. Invisible is the back-channel messaging that goes on as well as purchasing via the Classified section. I have made significant purchases via classified and I gained from personal messages. I was able to make contact with a person in the Netherlands from whom I received a set of project plans. I have messaged members in the UK as well as Australia.

Now that I know a lot about my Domino 500 and how to square up my MFT/3, I have slipped into just checking once and awhile. I don't expect there can be much done to pick up the numbers. We are over the hump on the bell curve and in the downward phase.

 

[chrisrosenb]

"4) Let us talk about politics, guns, religion, etc."

Then it'll be bye bye from me (not that it'll be a great loss to the FOG as I'm not a great contributor )

I agree. I left Facebook because of all of that crap. If I want to hear about it, I will go to news sites.