New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw

[Chef]

I saw this saw recently at a metabo roadshow where I got to do a few test cuts and I was instantly impressed especially by how compact the machine is. The price was £549 +vat ,I forgot to ask if it was built in Germany. They also do the same saw but without the sym fence @ approx £100 less, I left to think things thru (as I am looking to purchase a new slider mainly for workshop use) and I am now torn between the 2x models...is the sym fence worth the extra cost ? Or are there other compact saws I should consider .  Ta

 

[Kev]

I saw this saw recently at a metabo roadshow where I got to do a few test cuts and I was instantly impressed especially by how compact the machine is. The price was £549 +vat ,I forgot to ask if it was built in Germany. They also do the same saw but without the sym fence @ approx £100 less, I left to think things thru (as I am looking to purchase a new slider mainly for workshop use) and I am now torn between the 2x models...is the sym fence worth the extra cost ? Or are there other compact saws I should consider .  Ta

[member=61479]Chef[/member] I think the SYM fence is one of those things that you'd never miss until you've got to use one. I could imagine myself using a SYM fence in a number of situations where it'd simplify the job, but I don't think I could justify a third SCMS based on how often it would come into play.

 

[dutchie]

I'm also curious if it's made in Germany or not. If it is that would probably seal the deal for me and I'd be looking to replace my Bosch with the SYM version.

So far I've seen Metabo stuff from Germany, Hungary, Vietnam, Korea and China so all over the place! 

 

[Kev]

I'm also curious if it's made in Germany or not. If it is that would probably seal the deal for me and I'd be looking to replace my Bosch with the SYM version.

So far I've seen Metabo stuff from Germany, Hungary, Vietnam, Korea and China so all over the place!

I'm going to guess made in China .. there appears to be a lot of design commonality with the Metabo cordless SCMS I have that's made in China. Annoying little things like the allen key rusting within weeks detract from a pretty solid design.

 

[Amalix]

Also available without the "SYM" fence. Basically (dare I say it) a Kapex clone. A quick search tells me prices range between 500€ and 600€ (in Germany)... Might be an interesting upgrade, the space saving aspect is a huge factor for me.

Video:

 

[Kev]

Also available without the "SYM" fence. Basically (dare I say it) a Kapex clone. A quick search tells me prices range between 500€ and 600€ (in Germany)... Might be an interesting upgrade, the space saving aspect is a huge factor for me.

Video:

[member=50329]Amalix[/member]

No, not with a 216mm blade it's not.

This size machine is excellent for flooring, panelling, decking, etc .. but don't confuse the cut capacity. I'm hoping they intro a version of the KGSV 72 XACT SYM in cordless, then I'd swap my KGS 18 LTX 216 in a heartbeat.

 

[Amalix]

Right, maybe my comparison to the Kapex was a little bit too fast. Cut capacity and Dust collection will be a lot less on the metabo, among other things. I really cant afford the Kapex but I would love a space saving miter saw.

I have a lot of flooring coming up, as well as fitting a kitchen and 2 large sheds, all of which this machine (and my current, the kgs 216) can easily handle. Budget wise though, decisions decisions...

Bottom line, I suppose this remains a decent alternative if one is looking for a compact saw.

 

[Kev]

Right, maybe my comparison to the Kapex was a little bit too fast. Cut capacity and Dust collection will be a lot less on the metabo, among other things. I really cant afford the Kapex but I would love a space saving miter saw.

I have a lot of flooring coming up, as well as fitting a kitchen and 2 large sheds, all of which this machine (and my current, the kgs 216) can easily handle. Budget wise though, decisions decisions...

Bottom line, I suppose this remains a decent alternative if one is looking for a compact saw.

[member=50329]Amalix[/member] Agree with you 100% .. my little cordless Metabo SCMS has a couple of "made in China" imperfect aspects, but as a complete unit it is really a little beauty - particularly for the price point. If this new little Metabo SYM is as good or better in quality as the Metabo I have, for the price you mention and it features - it'll be excellent buying [wink]

Before I got my KAPEX (I got it with the UG stand and extensions to easily move about) I got by happily (ignorantly) with a little Hitachi SCMS. There was always a lot of clean up with the Hitachi, the stand was a pain, measurement was a pain, stabilising different length pieces of timber with two free standing rollers was a pain ... I simply didn't realise the quantum leap of moving to the KAPEX until I was looking back. Now that I've added the little Metabo cordless SCMS the KAPEX sees a lot less action.

 

[rizzoa13]

Id also spring for this in cordless. I've got a decent amount of the metabo LIHD batteries and plan to get more so Id get this in cordless in a heartbeat.

Can it cut crown nested? Probably not. Can it cut most everything else you'll be doing on a daily basis? Probably. In my eyes it  ould be very useful.

 

[dutchie]

So I reached out to Metabo and they informed me the KGSV 72 Xact SYM is Made in China. Still comes with the 3 year warranty like all Metabo tools, but I'm curious what tools are still being made in Germany by Metabo.

I have a Metabo SB 18 LTX Quick BL and that's made in Germany. Metabo just released an update version of this drill (SB 18 LTX Q BL I) last month I'd be curious to see if this is also still made in Germany or also moved to China.

 

[bobfog]

Made in China isn't necessarily a bad thing. It depends on what sort of handle Metabo has on enforcing good QC standards. In some instances the money saved on labour can be ploughed back into better components. Don't rule something out just because it's made in China.

 

[McNally Family]

Made in China isn't necessarily a bad thing. It depends on what sort of handle Metabo has on enforcing good QC standards. In some instances the money saved on labour can be ploughed back into better components. Don't rule something out just because it's made in China.

Unless you're talking about dog biscuits.  They "ploughed" something into those, but it was toxic to animals, killing them.

 

[DB10]

  I spoke with Metabo about their Chinese production sometime ago as I was disappointed that the latest Cordless Angle grinders that were supposed to be built in Germany got switched to being produced in China.  I was told that it isn't all about the cheaper labour in China over Europe but it is more to do with logistics, apparently if you want to be able to produce quality machinery at a competitive price then it makes sense to make it in China. I sort of see where they are coming from, China is the epicentre for manufacturing and if that's where everyone else manufactures their tools then why make it hard on yourself and try do it somewhere else.
By the way I've never had any problems with either Metabo or Milwaukee tools that have been manufactured in China, I believe companies like this invest a lot of time and money in their quality control.

 

[Kev]

I think there's a big difference between simply sourcing cheap stuff from Asia and flogging it for a tidy profit v's a reputable manufacturer reducing manufacturing costs .. if they do maintain a high quality standard it can be a benefit to the consumer.

I will confess though to immediately lowering my expectations when I appraise something cheaper that's made in China. If my Metabo cordless SCMS had been more expensive and made in Germany I wouldn't have expected the allen key to rust in the first week!

 

[dutchie]

My biggest gripe with stuff made in China isn't so much the quality, because as mentioned above plenty of high quality stuff is being made in China, but more with the lack of labor and environmental laws. I doubt the workers in the Chinese Metabo factory work on the same terms as their 'colleagues' in the German factories. And with that I don't mean how much they are being paid necessarily, but the number of days in the week they have to work, the number of hours and the amount of holidays they get, etc. etc.

 

[bobfog]

My biggest gripe with stuff made in China isn't so much the quality, because as mentioned above plenty of high quality stuff is being made in China, but more with the lack of labor and environmental laws. I doubt the workers in the Chinese Metabo factory work on the same terms as their 'colleagues' in the German factories. And with that I don't mean how much they are being paid necessarily, but the number of days in the week they have to work, the number of hours and the amount of holidays they get, etc. etc.

The counter argument is if people boycott because of the reasons you stated they wouldn't have jobs at all because if there isn't an economic advantage to be exploited they'd just move manufacturing back to Germnay and add 50% to the cost of the tools. So it's lose lose all round.

 

[McNally Family]

My biggest gripe with stuff made in China isn't so much the quality, because as mentioned above plenty of high quality stuff is being made in China, but more with the lack of labor and environmental laws. I doubt the workers in the Chinese Metabo factory work on the same terms as their 'colleagues' in the German factories. And with that I don't mean how much they are being paid necessarily, but the number of days in the week they have to work, the number of hours and the amount of holidays they get, etc. etc.

Dutchie, I agree with you completely.  I stopped purchasing shrimp from our local grocery, because it is sourced from places like Indonesia (as is most frozen grocery store and restaurant shrimp in this country), where the shrimp industry employs slave-like labor practices.
http://www.triplepundit.com/2014/06/csr-asia-inclusive-business-solve-shrimp-industry-ills/#

It's a small protest, of insignificant economic consequence, but as a matter of principle I now purchase shrimp from the Gulf and have it shipped overnight to my home in Tennessee.  It costs a little bit more, and it means I don't get to eat shrimp as often, but it tastes better knowing someone was paid a living wage, and can live in a decent home, while earning their living.

Festool utilizes factory labor in the Czech Republic for some of their products (PDC comes to mind), where labor costs are about 1/3 of that found in Germany.  Business will migrate to cheaper labor to maintain margins.  It is only when they end up harming people (or pets) in the process, where it becomes a problem.

 

[dutchie]

My biggest gripe with stuff made in China isn't so much the quality, because as mentioned above plenty of high quality stuff is being made in China, but more with the lack of labor and environmental laws. I doubt the workers in the Chinese Metabo factory work on the same terms as their 'colleagues' in the German factories. And with that I don't mean how much they are being paid necessarily, but the number of days in the week they have to work, the number of hours and the amount of holidays they get, etc. etc.

Dutchie, I agree with you completely.  I stopped purchasing shrimp from our local grocery, because it is sourced from places like Indonesia (as is most frozen grocery store and restaurant shrimp in this country), where the shrimp industry employs slave-like labor practices.
http://www.triplepundit.com/2014/06/csr-asia-inclusive-business-solve-shrimp-industry-ills/#

It's a small protest, of insignificant economic consequence, but as a matter of principle I now purchase shrimp from the Gulf and have it shipped overnight to my home in Tennessee.  It costs a little bit more, and it means I don't get to eat shrimp as often, but it tastes better knowing someone was paid a living wage, and can live in a decent home, while earning their living.

Festool utilizes factory labor in the Czech Republic for some of their products (PDC comes to mind), where labor costs are about 1/3 of that found in Germany.  Business will migrate to cheaper labor to maintain margins.  It is only when they end up harming people (or pets) in the process, where it becomes a problem.

Glad we're on the same page

About the Festool Czech factory I think that was part of the deal when TTS (Festool's mother company) bought Narex, a czech company. So I think there's a difference with Metabo, Milwaukee etc. here. I don't think they moved labor their perse as its cheaper, but they simply obtained a fully functional factory there. This is just speculation from my side, so correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[McNally Family]

I'm sure your right.  I just remember seeing on the side of the PDC that it was made in the Czech Republic.  Then for some reason I was involved in research regarding labor rates in Europe, and how they compared to the United States.  That is how I discovered the difference between German and Czech labor costs. 

 

[yetihunter]

completely relevant.