New Metabo Sliding compound mitre saw

PDC was a Protool item.  I presume it was always made in the Narex (not to be confused with other Narex brands not owned by TTS) factory with other Protool products. 

The latest Metabo grinders are on display at my local shop.
They look and feel like a step down in quality.  Hopefully that's not the
case.  Overbuilt motors are their selling point, and I imagine they're either shipping them to their Chinese factory, or that they replicated the machinery.

 
fog me said:
Hi all,

My first post and unfortunately it is not a happy one.
Got my new Metabo KGSV 72 Xact sym delivered today and was very happy with it until I tried to loosen the saw blade bolt and this happened:

View attachment 1
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p :'(

Welcome to the forum.

Interesting first ever post to a Festool forum is about a fault with a newly released Metabo saw that competes with the Kapex. Care to elaborate a little love about how this catostrophic failure occurred or some more photos?
 
MAN !

What happened? Did you accidentally launch it off a cliff while you were undoing the bolt or something [eek] ??

The looks quite disturbing.
 
Not trying to be rude.... but were you turning it the correct way? That bolt is reverse threaded (left handed). Clockwise to loosen and counter clockwise to tighten.

 
I picked up a Metabo 18V KGS yesterday and I fondled the KGS 72 Xact SYM. It seems nice enough for sure. It felt like a quality machine. There was nothing to cut in the shop though.

I was a little bummed that the 18V only does 45(+2) right and left but all things considered and for what it is supposed to do for me it will fit the bill. It will be paired with the Metabo KSS40. Haven't even had time to fire it up yet though!
 
Very impressive! I've been hankering after the Metabo 254plus for a while but this is a lovely bit of kit! I wish more local shops stocked their stuff so I could get a hands on feel for them
 
I've have been doing a lot of research on this saw and have found it difficult to find an in depth review of the Metabo KGSV 72 Xact SYM.

I did find one review which was in German here:
https://www.idealo.de/preisvergleic...-kgsv-72-xact-sym-metabo.html#Expertenmeinung

I've cut and paste the review below for anyone who wishes to read it. (N.B It has been translated using google translate so there are some errors)

20.08.16 - The Carpenter (reviewers name)
Neat saw: I recently added the "Metabo KGSV 72 XACT SYM". I use the saw mainly for flooring and trimming for skirting boards.
Pro: The saw has an acceptable weight and the carrying handles are arranged in the right place. The settings of the angles and stops work as seen in the "known" videos. The suction works with vacuum cleaner, (Festo Midi) quite neat. Depending on the material, the chips are sucked out almost completely. I noticed positively that the fine dust, which causes hysteria in the customer, is sucked very well. The saw has a secure stand and compact dimensions. The cut quality with the included saw blade is very good. When one has become acquainted with the many red heads and levers, The operation is really simple and practical. Particularly useful for the trimming of skirting boards is the swiveling of the saw on both sides when the masons have not properly cleaned the corners. Then, the angle previously transmitted with the slider need not be adjusted again. Those who have to mount baseboards often know what I mean. The adjustment of the laser is quite simple if you have the necessary fingertip feeling. It is also practical that you can disable the latch function for the common angles. This makes it easy to adjust angles just next to the snaps. Because of the good performance I use the saw more and more often in the workshop. Contra: The saw has only few points of criticism. The symmetrical adjustment of the stops has to my taste somewhat too much play. In practice this means that if I transfer an angle with the Schmiege, I can move the respective other stop somewhat back and forth after tightening the left or right stop until I have also tightened it. When adjusting, this means that I have to keep the scraper carefully against the stops until the second stop is locked. In my opinion this is only a habit. The supplied Schmiege is unfortunately of no particularly good quality. The tightening screw must be tightened if the angle is not adjusted when the angles are transferred. I have already exchanged the Schmiege since I use this much. The lead wire could be slightly longer and softer. A quality similar to Festo would be nice. The integrated working light and the laser could be somewhat brighter, but they are usable.
Conclusion: In price and performance, the saw with its combination of grooving and panel saw fully convinced me. The processing and handling are very good. I would buy the saw again immediately.
 
I got one as a second more mobile saw to compliment my 25Kg 12" DWS780. I posted random thoughts on it over on the UK Workshop forum. First post on it is here with more posts further through the thread.

In a nutshell it's a fine saw but the detents, at least on my one, aren't bang on and I've not found a way of adjusting them. That's not to say there isn't a way to tweak them... I just haven't looked properly yet as, with the SYM fences, there's a lot of moving parts down below [scared]
 
Anyone who think Metabo is not producing quality items are fools .They could easily take on festool and win.
 
Roachmill: thank you for the review and insight on the Metabo SYM. I wasn't too thrilled with the KS60 so I didn't keep it. If I were in the market for this size saw again I would definitely go with the Metabo SYM as it would probably meet my expectations which are probably on par with your findings. :)

Since I have some bigger stuff to cut this summer (decking/fenceposts) I ended up buying a Metabo 254 - it has no softstart but is light, "cheap", does the job and I got it with the KSU 401 stand which has a spread up to 4m.  [eek]
I didn't go larger in saw size as the tasks at hand does not require it.

I was expecting to true up the saw but to my pleasant surprise the machine is dead on from factory when checked with a large, calibrated square.  I am sure it will do the job and I don't expect miracles from it. Horses for courses. :)
 
LJD said:
Anyone who think Metabo is not producing quality items are fools .They could easily take on festool and win.
Theyd need to come up with a whole lot more products and accessories. And establish themselves in the US MUCH better.
 
I think that you're both right, and I think you're both wrong, too.  Metabo generally marches to a different beat to Tooltechnic (Festo, Festool, Narex, Kraenzle, Schneider).  Some Metabo tools are great.  Brilliant, even.  Some are crap.  Just like Festo/ol.

Principally, Metabo's a category killer in grinders, and also latterly general steelwork tools.  Others make good grinders, too.  Flex. Robbie Bosch. Eisenblaetter.  Maybe even Fein.  From a handful to perhaps a dozen or 2 each.  Metabo makes over 100 different grinders.  It's their particular expertise & specialisation.  Just like Festo/ol was principally a sander manufacturer.

Metabo also makes drills.  Dozens of 'em.  Most very good, and some exceptionally so.  A couple are truly outstanding (BE75 x3, GB18) in their respective capabilities.  From the sands of the desert to the arctic, from North Sea oil rigs to shipyards, industrial sites all over the world use Metabo drills & grinders in particular in the toughest worksites.

Since making inroads into the construction market, Metabo has increased its range somewhat exponentially, especially in cordless gear.  I'll be the first to admit that there's still fairly glaring holes within their cordless range (planers, sanders et. al.) but there's still over 80 different cordless Metabo tools.  In fact a breadth of product that frankly makes Tooltechnic's efforts rather paltry in comparison.  If one adds in the compatible output from such venerated tool manufacturers as Mafell & Rothenberger, then the "Metabo & Friends" cordless range is in my opinion pretty outstanding.

I have only a few myself (9), but consider them close to if not the best tools available in their particular categories.  Aside from everything else, they (Mafell & Rothenberger too) currently sport the world's best, most powerful, versatile and energy dense battery platform available.  It's quite a revelation what high current capacity batteries can accomplish these days.  The only categories that I can think of that have a palpable need for improvement are in SDS Plus & Max combis & hammers, routers & small, compact impact drivers.  Bosch, DeWalt & Makita respectively dominate these segments, and even Festo/ol's handful of equivalents are not exactly exemplars of these particular categories either.

Where Festo/ol tend to dominate is in their sanders, especially those extremely capable aged Holz Her designs they inherited, vacuums (thanks to the Kraenzle purchase;  Metabo, in common with the majority of other German firms use Starmix variants) and of course their loose tenoners which rival even the very best alternatives from Lamello & Mafell.  Most relevant SMEs would be using Festo or Rupes electric sanders these days.

With their relatively unopposed dominance in metalwork tools & rapid expansion into the cordless and construction tools sectors, both Metabo and its Rothenberger and Mafell "companions" are targeting quite a different market segment to Festo/ol.  Festos tend to be more at home in the workshops of small enterprises, sole traders and hobby woodworkers, whereas the aforementioned "gang of 3" are specifically targeting industrial, large commercial & construction clients and specific primary industries such as mining & energy extraction.  From a global perspective, if not specifically north american, you would find Metabo especially and I suspect disproportionately well represented in these specific industries.

As for the dearth of north american representation, well in some ways the 3 countries that comprise the continent have only themselves to blame for that situation.  It's pretty difficult to design a high quality, robust and sophisticated tool around what amounts to an effectively 3rd world mains reticulation system.  Look what's happening to many of the Kapex saws connected to the north america's half-voltage network!  They were never the most robust of tools in the first place, and to connect them to such a primitive reticulation network is almost inevitably asking too much of their somewhat delicate nature.

The rest of the world (aside from the odd tiny banana republic) made the change a century or more ago, allowing much more sophisticated, powerful tools & appliances that would quite frankly overwhelm a lower voltage wiring loom.  It's great news for your local tool manufacturing industry, who can make more specialised lower voltage tooling with extra heavy duty field wiring to cope with those inevitable powerful eddy currents & excess heat generation.  But it's a different story for the major (& a disaster for the small ones, like Festo, Metabo & the like) global tool manufacturers, who must make extensive, expensive, and occasionally (as with Festo's Kapex) ultimately unsuccessful specific modifications for what is with all due respect a fairly marginal proportion of their total marketplace.
 
Nice background piece.

However , for clarity , it needs to be mentioned that FESTO and Festool /TTs are not interchangeable when discusing power tools.

The companies were divide up around the turn of the century to various family members and are completely separate entities now.  FESTO is a pneumatics and industrial automation company .  TTS principally makes handheld electric tools, vacuums, storage solutions via Tanos and lately is into PUR molding processes.
 
"As for the dearth of north american representation, well in some ways the 3 countries that comprise the continent have only themselves to blame for that situation.  It's pretty difficult to design a high quality, robust and sophisticated tool around what amounts to an effectively 3rd world mains reticulation system.  Look what's happening to many of the Kapex saws connected to the north america's half-voltage network!  They were never the most robust of tools in the first place, and to connect them to such a primitive reticulation network is almost inevitably asking too much of their somewhat delicate nature."

Interesting statement about what you think our NA electric system is run on. Just to clarify, most homes in Canada and the USA have roughly 220V to 240V on between 100 and 200 amp services. Industry in Canada runs on 240V 377V 575V and 600V while in the USA its typically 220 and 440V. Households in both countries have 120V and 220V circuits. I fail to see whats archaic in this. We are not offered the higher voltage tools here for whatever reasons because of those that control the sales of these items. Many shops would have no issues, jobsites would either adapt or take the English road with both 120V and 220V tools.

John
 
Reading between the lines in the post a few back blaming the USA electrical systems for Festool's inability to make a good universal motor for the Kapex is utterly ridiculous.

110/115V 60hz is just that and most all universal motors made right now work perfectly on 50-60hz.

 
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