New tool day: TS 60 K + track

Yeah, I don't really get the cordless obsession when it comes to Festool.

I mean, I LOVE cordless, I have a wall full of Milwaukee M18 and M12 tools that I couldn't live without...

But I really only use those when I'm doing work on the house or outside.  In my shop, I hardly ever touch anything but Festool, and it's all hooked up to dust collection, so the cord doesn't change anything.
 
All I have ever seen as far as promotional stuff is a minor discount when buying combo kits.
I have gotten a T-shirt or 2 over the years, but that was from the dealer. The give them away to frequent flyers/regulars. Bonuses that you don't get with Amazon purchases.
 
Crazyraceguy said:
All I have ever seen as far as promotional stuff is a minor discount when buying combo kits.
I have gotten a T-shirt or 2 over the years, but that was from the dealer. The give them away to frequent flyers/regulars. Bonuses that you don't get with Amazon purchases.
I usually purchase my stuff at Lee valley, don’t see Lee valley giving out festool t-shirt.

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Crazyraceguy said:
As usual, I am pretty much in agreement with Coen and mino.
The cordless model has no attraction for me. They are heavier in the first place, plus more bulky.
Since I still have my TS55, I have the riving knife issue covered, if needed. The TS60 has the electronic anti-kickback feature, which is helpful sometimes too. I especially like it when cutting loose laminate sheets as the riving knife can snag in that.
I never use either without a CT, since it is tethered there the cord doesn't add any resistance.
The narrow body of the TS60 doesn't overhang the track on the left side either, so it has no clearance issue with taller dogs.

As alltrackman78 said, the extra cut depth has its advantages too. That was my primary motivation to buy one in the first place. The other things were just a bonus to me.
Definitely gonna disagree with you guys. Cordless matches the performance of corded in every way and gives the functionality of being able to cut without a cord. Do you need that functionality day in day out? Of course not, but it’s an added feature and easily worth an extra 5-10% in the cost. In an on site situation even with power available cordless is hands down a more efficient and safer way to work. In a shop setting I get it corded tools are potentially on par for efficiency but in every other application cordless is far superior

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I like the TSC55. I spent the day working outside in the cold and only needed to make a cut about once an hour. It was much more convenient to carry out the TSC and then put it back inside than leave a corded setup in place and in the way all day. And the TSC doesn’t present a trip hazard.
 
Bencan said:
Definitely gonna disagree with you guys. Cordless matches the performance of corded in every way and gives the functionality of being able to cut without a cord. Do you need that functionality day in day out? Of course not, but it’s an added feature and easily worth an extra 5-10% in the cost. In an on site situation even with power available cordless is hands down a more efficient and safer way to work. In a shop setting I get it corded tools are potentially on par for efficiency but in every other application cordless is far superior
Hobby use of tracksaws is /almost as a rule/ shop use. Even those who have the cordless versions tend to use them 99% of the time inside their shops with the vac.

Thus the argument is that for shop use the corded FEStools are superior to cordless FEStools. *)

In my case - and for many others with boom arms - it is even more pronounced:
I have a primary cutting/sanding workstation with an integrated PlugIt with the hose. When a cordless tool is used, this PlugIt (which I need for sanding) is just "in the way". And do not get me started on Bluetooth pairing when using multiple tools. It is 10 seconds. But it IS 10 additional seconds AND a task I have to think about which is EASY to forget (once a day for me).

I did not sell my PSC 420 and did not put my TSC 55 on sale to save money. That is a very funny argument actually too as the cordless tools are cheaper than corded in Europe .. Besides I Lost €100 on my PSC sale and will lose on my TSC sale as well. But the usability will go up so it is fine with me.

===
If you are a site animal, that is a different discussion. There a corded tool just does not make sense end off. So there is no "consideration" even to make.

Michael Kellough said:
I like the TSC55. I spent the day working outside in the cold and only needed to make a cut about once an hour. It was much more convenient to carry out the TSC and then put it back inside than leave a corded setup in place and in the way all day. And the TSC doesn’t present a trip hazard.
Yeah, to me the TSC "covered" the range for a TS + HKC in one tool as well.

But I found that the TSC cannot /fully/ cover for the HKC, so I am "paying" by the sub-optimal shop setup all the time while having to get the HKC anyway. At that point, I figured, I am better off with optimal shop-use tool as the TS saw and using the HKC with FS/2 for those outside tasks you mention.

____________________
*)
The moment discussion moves to anything else (aka anything PlugIt-less) the argument is not so clear anymore:

The problem of an annoying cord which the PlugIt solves other brands "solve" by going cordless .. and getting a brand lock-in as a bonus.

By this time people got used to this. So we have folks "transposing" this "solution" to FEStools, ignorant on the PlugIt "thing" entirely and just demanding cordless, without further thought. These comments are to have them stop for a minute and think about.

Sure, Sure, this is not so much with a TS60 in NA which lacks PlugIt. But it is valid in the 230V world even with TS 60, and with other TS saws in the US.
 
Coen said:
Snip…
don't really get the obsession with cordless. Ultimately the charger still has a cord and if you cut a lot you need a ton of batteries and chargers. I get the feeling half the cordless users are in it for the hype, not for any practical reason.

I get what you are saying, but who here remembers using electric screwdrivers or more recently would be drills with cords? How many of us would be debating buying the corded version compared to battery today?

I personally use all my festool gear outside the shop. And have swapped all my corded tools for battery powered versions. Doing so has increased my efficiency, especially since the majority of my jobs are in more rural areas where power outlets are further from the point of work.
 
jonnyrocket said:
I get what you are saying, but who here remembers using electric screwdrivers or more recently would be drills with cords? How many of us would be debating buying the corded version compared to battery today?
..
/I feel like spamming here by now, apologies./

Not many people consider a vacuum hose attached to a screwdriver a necessity either ...
[smile]

Not arguing with the site work use case.
 
jonnyrocket said:
I get what you are saying, but who here remembers using electric screwdrivers or more recently would be drills with cords? How many of us would be debating buying the corded version compared to battery today?

I personally use all my festool gear outside the shop. And have swapped all my corded tools for battery powered versions. Doing so has increased my efficiency, especially since the majority of my jobs are in more rural areas where power outlets are further from the point of work.

Ya, I also don't understand the hate for cordless tools...are most of these haters still driving Stanley Steamers...or maybe they're adverse to EV vehicles...let's hope they still drive Stanley Steamers...maybe that could be the answer and the saving grace.

Their mantra, let's just do it the old way, find a tool, find a cord, attach it to the extension cord, drag both cords around in the garage and then ultimately trip on them. At some time trip the breaker and then walk over to reset the GFCI, trip on the cord again and then finally call it a day...and call it a task well done.

Alternative universe 1: Grab a cordless tool, go forward and finish the task...easy peasy.

So for my situation I'm building a new garage and I've been slowly bringing tools from the basement to the new garage that I know I will need to weatherproof it. 
Here's the list so far:
TSC 55 K
HKC
CXS 12
DWC 18
OSC 18
KAL Sys Lite
M18 Sawzall
M18 Propane Heater

Question...is there something that is a unifying theme between all of those tools?

For the disenfranchised...ya it's battery power...cordless...pretty simple.

Adding to that, my favorite track saw is the Mafell MT 55 and the absolutely best rails to use & join are the Mafell rails...so easy...so slick.

Well guess where the Mafell track saw and rails are...................................in the basement because the Mafell is CORDED.

 
Cheese said:
Ya, I also don't understand the hate for cordless tools...are most of these haters still driving Stanley Steamers...or maybe they're adverse to EV vehicles...let's hope they still drive Stanley Steamers...maybe that could be the answer and the saving grace.

Their mantra, let's just do it the old way, find a tool, find a cord, attach it to the extension cord, drag both cords around in the garage and then ultimately trip on them. At some time trip the breaker and then walk over to reset the GFCI, trip on the cord again and then finally call it a day...and call it a task well done.

Alternative universe 1: Grab a cordless tool, go forward and finish the task...easy peasy.

I don't believe it's a hate thing for the bulk of people, who I strongly suspect like me are heavily invested in an existing battery powered brand, and simply don't want a multitude of single tools each taking a unique, propriety battery that increases the risk of not having it charged enough for the times you'd want to use it.

I had the choice when I got my Zeta P2 to get cordless, but given it must be connected to an extractor, like most cabinetmaking tools, it made zero sense to not get the corded model instead. It's ready to go anytime I want, and I never have to worry about the battery needing to be charged. I could mitigate that by buying one or two extra batteries, but at the exorbitant prices Lamello charges for their gear, to me it's just not something I'd be prepared to fork out that much money for. I could better put that towards more tools.

Now if the Zeta used the same batteries as my existing platform, that would be a completely different case, I'd actually strongly consider the cordless as I'm already invested heavily in the requisite battery platform.

This is the same reason I've never bought any Festool, Fein, Metabo, or Milwaukee cordless gear, incompatibility with my existing large Makita LXT platform.

Although if a promotion for the SYS 50 arises, I'll be buying that, and then will likely start looking at replacing or augmenting some of my Makita gear with Festool cordless gear, because battery is the only option for the SYS 50, I'll be forced into that battery platform if I want the SYS 50.

Same goes for a cordless 1/2" router, I really want at least one, but with Milwaukee and Hikoki the only choices currently, I'll just wait and see if Festool or Makita releases one, in which case I'll get one.

I love the convenience of cordless, but it would drive me up the wall having a stack of different brand tools all needing to be monitored for charge just in case I want to use one ad hoc.
 
Cheese said:
Ya, I also don't understand the hate for cordless tools...are most of these haters still driving Stanley Steamers...or maybe they're adverse to EV vehicles...let's hope they still drive Stanley Steamers...maybe that could be the answer and the saving grace.

Their mantra, let's just do it the old way, find a tool, find a cord, attach it to the extension cord, drag both cords around in the garage and then ultimately trip on them. At some time trip the breaker and then walk over to reset the GFCI, trip on the cord again and then finally call it a day...and call it a task well done.
...
Sory, but this is a projection you did here.

There was no hate in any of the "FEStool tools are fine/more efficient/etc. in their corded version". At most a bewilderment by Coen designed to have folks with less experience stop and think a bit.

TLDR:
I lost LOTS of time AND money by drinking the "cordless cool aid" on (not only) this forum and getting a TSC 55 and PSC 420. I just do not want others falling in the same trap like I did. Not without knowing all the trade-offs.

=======================================================================
A hobby small shop maker scenario:

Corded (smaller, lighter):
-------------------------------------------
1 - pick the saw

2 - plug the hose


3 - plug the PlugIt

--- WORK ---

4 - unplug the PlugIt

5 - unplug the hose

6 - store the tool


No brain use involved .. leaving it free for better work activity planning.

Cordless (bigger, heavier):
-------------------------------------------
1  pick the saw

2  CHECK there are packs in the saw
    IF YES
      CHECK the packs are charged adequately
          IF YES
            GOTO: 3
          ELSE
            move packs to the charging queue
    WHILE SEARCH "free" battery packs, DO

      CHECK the packs are charged adequately
          IF YES
              put the packs in the saw
              GOTO: 3

          ELSE
              move the packs to the charging queue
      DONE
    STALL, no free packs
      figure what else to do until a set is charged

3  CHECK saw is paired with the vac
    IF NOT
      pair the vac with the saw

4  plug the hose

5  put the PlugIt sideways so it does not interfere with the work /workstation specific/

--- WORK ---

6  unplug the hose

7  ASSESS if saw will be used shortly again
  IF YES
      IF GOOD MEMORY
        REMEMBER packs were left with this tool
      IF BAD MEMORY
        have a dedicated "tools with packs" storage place, separate from the "long term/safe storage"
  ELSE
      remove packs from the saw
      CHECK their charge
        IF OK
            put in "CHARGED" packs place
        ELSE
            put packs in charging queue

8 - store the tool

OFFLINE WORK:
  work to maintain sufficient packs and chargers
  +1 charger needed for a TSC 55 owner, without this (and without a CTC) one AIRstream charger is absolutely fine for a hobby user


=======================================================================
BROWN - additional steps compared to the other scenario
RED - brain activity required /IMO the bigger "cost" as it kills productivity more than the tasks themselves do/

For outside the shop work, or as a cost-saving exercise - no dedicated tool needed for off-shop tasks - absolutely!
That is what the cordless dust-extraction-requiring FEStools are made for.

For me (and many others) a cordless TSC 55/60/etc. was and is a way to SAVE money. It can remove the HKC need (with compromises) as that one tool will cover multiple tasks. Not the "premium" one. And that is absolutely fine. What I do not like is pretending like there are no "costs" or trade-off with using a cordless tool in a shop. There are. And as honest folk we should not hide these from newcommers asking questions.

EDIT: fixed the algo, thanks mike!
 
Wow that’s an epic debate on cordless vs cord haha.

Like I said, for me it was easy as I will most often, use it in my shop/garage. When doing so, I don’t want dust flying around. More importantly later this year when we move and the shop is the garage attached to the house, and has a gym portion, and the laundry room. So gotta be extra clean.

So yeah, I will use the saw most often plugged in the CT. I will already have the hose going to the tools. I didn’t find that combersome (sorry don’t know how to write it) to have an electric cord going to the CT with the hose.

Yeah, sometime I will use it outdoor. But I will likely have an outlet not too far.

I already have dewalt and makita battery system, didn’t want to get, for now, in a new battery system.

My plan are to make a new, or use the old MFT table I did a couple years back and never use to its full extent. Using an hinge and track dedicated (mostly) to the bench.
(Making a new one cause it’s 4in on center and has 3/4 in holes, so not the standard standard)

I’m not against cordless, I love all my cordless tool. But for the track saw, for MY use case, didn’t see any many advantage over the corded version.  Needing to find an outlet and extension cord 3-4 time a years when working outdoor didn’t seem like a burden too me.

If I ever find out that the corded version is evil and a pain to work with, I’ll sell this one and go get the cordless version.

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luvmytoolz said:
I had the choice when I got my Zeta P2 to get cordless, but given it must be connected to an extractor, like most cabinetmaking tools, it made zero sense to not get the corded model instead. It's ready to go anytime I want, and I never have to worry about the battery needing to be charged. I could mitigate that by buying one or two extra batteries, but at the exorbitant prices Lamello charges for their gear, to me it's just not something I'd be prepared to fork out that much money for. I could better put that towards more tools.

Now if the Zeta used the same batteries as my existing platform, that would be a completely different case, I'd actually strongly consider the cordless as I'm already invested heavily in the requisite battery platform.

To be fair, the Zeta P2 has two things going for it from a cordless standpoint:

It does not actually REQUIRE extraction, as the blade action is rotational and self-clearing, unlike the plunge action of the Domino; it just makes a mess without extraction.

The battery platform for the Zeta P2 is CAS, which is multi-platform rather than strictly proprietary, although more likely to be supported in Europe than other parts of the world.
 
luvmytoolz said:
I don't believe it's a hate thing for the bulk of people, who I strongly suspect like me are heavily invested in an existing battery powered brand, and simply don't want a multitude of single tools each taking a unique, propriety battery that increases the risk of not having it charged enough for the times you'd want to use it.

Now if the Zeta used the same batteries as my existing platform, that would be a completely different case, I'd actually strongly consider the cordless as I'm already invested heavily in the requisite battery platform.

That's exactly the reason I decided NOT to purchase the cordless Mafell MT 55. Two more orphan batteries and an orphan charger, I'd already been down that road with Paslode guns, a Milwaukee screwdriver, a Porter Cable multitool, a Metabo drill...no thanks.
So I bit the bullet and decided to limit it to 2 battery platforms, Milwaukee & Festool...pretty simple.
A Milwaukee & a Festool charger sits in the basement and the same combo sits out in the garage. A few batteries sit next to the chargers so some are fully charged while 2 are being charged. It's really easy...no Venn diagram needed.
 
Cheese said:
luvmytoolz said:
I don't believe it's a hate thing for the bulk of people, who I strongly suspect like me are heavily invested in an existing battery powered brand, and simply don't want a multitude of single tools each taking a unique, propriety battery that increases the risk of not having it charged enough for the times you'd want to use it.

Now if the Zeta used the same batteries as my existing platform, that would be a completely different case, I'd actually strongly consider the cordless as I'm already invested heavily in the requisite battery platform.

That's exactly the reason I decided NOT to purchase the cordless Mafell MT 55. Two more orphan batteries and an orphan charger, I'd already been down that road with Paslode guns, a Milwaukee screwdriver, a Porter Cable multitool, a Metabo drill...no thanks.
So I bit the bullet and decided to limit it to 2 battery platforms, Milwaukee & Festool...pretty simple.
A Milwaukee & a Festool charger sits in the basement and the same combo sits out in the garage. A few batteries sit next to the chargers so some are fully charged while 2 are being charged. It's really easy...no Venn diagram needed.
Gonna strongly agree here, using battery tools is really not complicated…

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
jonnyrocket said:
Coen said:
Snip…
don't really get the obsession with cordless. Ultimately the charger still has a cord and if you cut a lot you need a ton of batteries and chargers. I get the feeling half the cordless users are in it for the hype, not for any practical reason.

I get what you are saying, but who here remembers using electric screwdrivers or more recently would be drills with cords? How many of us would be debating buying the corded version compared to battery today?

I personally use all my festool gear outside the shop. And have swapped all my corded tools for battery powered versions. Doing so has increased my efficiency, especially since the majority of my jobs are in more rural areas where power outlets are further from the point of work.

I tried doing dry diamond core drilling in masonry for 82mm holes for flush mount electrical boxes with my 18V machine .. it turns out you need to have quite a stack of batteries and the tool overheats anyway. The vac is still corded, so what the heck... I went back to using a corded drill for that, it goes dozens of holes back to back, requires zero diaper -I mean battery- changes and doesn't overheat.

For sure I could have gotten a bigger model 18V drill that would not overheat, but that is about twice as expensive... or let's say three times as expensive as the corded drill. And that's because I got a relatively expensive corded version; a cheaper corded one will manage about just as fine.
In about 10 years those batteries probably all need rebuilding/replacing at a cost of $50 each while the corded machine might need $5 in brushes and a new cord for another $5
Now I do get my batteries on the cheap side; lots of dead ones going around and I get a few for nothing / cheap that I rebuild using a spot welder, nickel strip and a soldering iron (for the balance leads yes), but I wouldn't count that average.

As for general small drilling and screw driving; yes sure. But that's mainly because the corded machines have an absolute horrible torque/speed curve and insane rotational inertia, not just for the sake of cord vs cordless. Now for a mitre saw... haha, what on earth?
 
On topic;

[member=61254]mino[/member] - Agreed. You forgot to mention the 'elephant in the room' though - the fact that 'Hallelujah !! Freedom from being tethered by cords !!!' is the rallying cry of the cordless brigade as they make their cordless saw cuts - whilst being tethered to their extractor by the equivalent of a 3.5m long/36mm-diameter firehose-sized 'cord' instead.

But only tentatively on topic;

Cheese said:
Maybe they're adverse to EV vehicles

Yup.

1 - Horrific initial purchase cost.
2 - Horrific depreciation.
3 - Horrific insurance, repair and maintenance cost.
4 - Horrific tyre wear.
5 - Proven unreliability compared with ICE vehicles. Endless software glitches and more besides - the simplest of which can often completely disable the vehicle. Think of an underdeveloped, rushed-to-market Beta-test with a wheel bolted to each corner.
6 - Pathetic charging infrastructure.
7 - No likelihood of an improvement to #6 as a basic 4-bay charging station costs $750,000 and no investors are buying as there's no return on such a huge investment.
8 - A power source (battery) which costs $50-60,000 to replace when it wears out. As it inevitably will. How many people reading this have 5-year-old all-day-daily-use iPhones with 100% functional batteries?
9 - They don't work when it gets cold.
10 - You're screwed if you ever want to tow anything or go uphill. Your battery range just halved.
11 - If you do tow, you'll need to unhitch your trailer and park it somewhere safe so you can get into a charging bay.
12 - But all those bays are already full because there aren't enough of them. You'll need to wait around until one becomes free.
13 - By the time you've done that and charged, your 150-mile journey will already have taken 4 hours. Likely more.
14 - Now multiply that by the mileage you'd like to do for that special weekend away with your family. Say 300 miles each way in an ICE car - there and back on a tank. But even if your car is a small one with a small tank - a 3-minute gas station pump, and you're good to go again. In an EV - multiple charging stops (if you can find chargers), and a 30-40% minimum increase in your journey time featuring restless, hot, sweaty kids. You daren't turn on the AC because it kills another precious 10% of your remaining 30-mile range. Roadside burger or coffee stops whilst hanging around charging? It gets real old. Real quick.
15 - Live in Alaska? Or the Appalachians? Or Montana? Or Colorado? Or New Mexico? Or anywhere else featuring massive, wide-open spaces with hundreds of miles between towns? Once again - you're screwed. I'm a Brit living in a country smaller than just one of your states and my knowledge of the geography of your wonderful country is limited (hence the wild 'Big Country' guesses above), but even here - a 58-million-inhabitants country hyped with so-called 'EV awareness', we only have around 5% of the necessary infrastructure to support a ridiculously-impossible 'All EV by 2030' Government mandate. An entire country less than the size of Texas. 5% infrastructure. Heaven help you guys.
16 - What about trucks? And railroad locomotives? And airplanes? And bulldozers? And farm tractors? And cranes? And ships? And all the other zillion huge diesel, gas and aviation-fuel-powered machines which enable us to live the lives we live?

#17 - #132 = I'll let you do some basic research and figure it out. But I just specifically wanted to mention;

22 - What about the huge number of catastrophic Li-Ion EV fires? The ones the fire departments can't put out because of stratospheric burn temperatures and the likelihood of re-ignition - sometimes days later? And the full HAZMAT teams now needed at every EV fire because the runoff fire-department extinguishing water is now critically contaminated with toxic chemicals?

There's a reason why auto manufacturers have thousands of unsold EV's on their dealer lots, there's a reason why many of them have either drastically reduced (or totally halted) production altogether. There's a reason why early corporate adopters like Hertz are currently offloading 20,000 EV's because they're losing money on every rental. Buyers don't want them because they're unaffordable to the Ordinary Joe, and they're totally impractical apart from being a rich person's crazy-expensive golf cart to go to the mall and back in - all whilst feeling great about how you're saving the planet. Spoiler alert = you're not. Your battery raw materials have involved hundreds of thousands of tons of minerals being mined and processed, and the electricity you've used to charge it has probably come from somewhere like a coal-fired power station which belches out more toxic sludge every minute than a thousand Kenworth diesel trucks produce in a week, or maybe from a nuclear plant producing waste which takes 500 years to become non-radioactive, or maybe from a gas-fired plant using up all the fossil-fuel resources EV's are supposed to be saving.

I don't want to come across as some kind of looney-tunes EV-hating evangelist, and I therefore won't go into the specifics of how I know all this (cue longest post in FOG history)........ but it's sufficient to say that as an environmentally-aware citizen of the world - I believed the glossy marketing BS, I believed I was truly doing a good thing, and I was foolishly sucked into the false hype. So I reached deep, deep into my pocket, and I tried it. An EV version of the same van I'd happily driven for the past 9 years. 18 months in - I've had to buy a new diesel van as well to earn a living, having already turned down at least $30,000 worth of work because I knew my van wouldn't get me there and back in a day and there were no chargers in the rural areas involved. I still haven't been able to sell the immaculate, as-new EV version - not even for half of its initial purchase cost. Only a year and a half in - and I'm more than $70,000 in the hole.

No thanks.

Kevin
 
woodbutcherbower said:
On topic;

[member=61254]mino[/member] - Agreed. You forgot to mention the 'elephant in the room' though - the fact that 'Hallelujah !! Freedom from being tethered by cords !!!' is the rallying cry of the cordless brigade as they make their cordless saw cuts - whilst being tethered to their extractor by the equivalent of a 3.5m long/36mm-diameter firehose-sized 'cord' instead.

But only tentatively on topic;

Cheese said:
Maybe they're adverse to EV vehicles

Yup.

1 - Horrific initial purchase cost.
2 - Horrific depreciation.
3 - Horrific insurance, repair and maintenance cost.
4 - Horrific tyre wear.
5 - Proven unreliability compared with ICE vehicles. Endless software glitches and more besides - the simplest of which can often completely disable the vehicle.
6 - Pathetic charging infrastructure.
7 - No likelihood of an improvement to #6 as a basic 4-bay charging station costs $750,000 and no investors are buying as there's no return on such a huge investment.
8 - A power source (battery) which costs $50-60,000 to replace when it wears out. As it inevitably will. How many people reading this have 5-year-old iPhones with 100% functional batteries?
9 - They don't work when it gets cold.
10 - You're screwed if you ever want to tow anything. Your battery range just halved.
11 - If you do, you'll need to unhitch your trailer and park it somewhere safe so you can get into a charging bay.
12 - All those bays will be full because there aren't enough of them. You'll need to wait around until one becomes free.
13 - By the time you've done that, your 150-mile journey will have taken 4 hours. Likely more.
14 - Now multiply that by the mileage you'd like to do for that special weekend away with your family. Say 300 miles each way in an ICE car - there and back on a tank. If your car has a small tank - 3-minute gas station pump and you're good to go. In an EV - multiple charging stops (if you can find chargers), and a 20-30% minimum increase in your journey time. Roadside burger stops whilst hanging around gets real old, real quick.
15 - Live in Alaska? Or the Appalachians? Or Montana? Or Colorado? Or New Mexico? Or anywhere else featuring massive, wide-open spaces with hundreds of miles between towns? Once again - you're screwed. I'm a Brit living in a country smaller than just one of your states and my knowledge of the geography of your wonderful country is limited (hence the wild 'Big Country' guesses above), but even here - a country hyped with so-called 'EV awareness', we only have around 5% of the necessary infrastructure to support an 'All EV by 2030' Government mandate. An entire country less than the size of Texas. 5% infrastructure. help you guys.
16 - What about trucks? And railroad locomotives? And airplanes? And bulldozers? And farm tractors? And cranes? And ships? And all the other zillion huge diesel, gas and aviation-fuel-powered machines which enable us to live the lives we live?

#17 -#132 = I'll let you do some basic research and figure it out. But I just specifically wanted to mention;

22 - What about the huge number of catastrophic Li-Ion EV fires? The ones the fire departments can't put out because of stratospheric burn temperatures and the likelihood of re-ignition - sometimes days later? And the full HAZMAT teams now needed at every EV fire because the runoff fire-department extinguishing water is now critically contaminated with toxic chemicals?

There's a reason why auto manufacturers have thousands of unsold EV's on their dealer lots, there's a reason why many of them have either drastically reduced (or totally halted) production altogether. There's a reason why early corporate adopters like Hertz are currently offloading 20,000 EV's because they're losing money on every rental. Buyers don't want them because they're unaffordable to the Ordinary Joe, and they're totally impractical apart from being a rich person's crazy-expensive golf cart to go to the mall and back in - all whilst feeling great about how you're saving the planet. Spoiler alert = you're not. Your battery raw materials have involved hundreds of thousands of tons of minerals being mined and processed, and the electricity you've used to charge it has probably come from somewhere like a coal-fired power station which belches out more toxic sludge every minute than a thousand Kenworth diesel trucks, or a nuclear plant producing waste which takes 500 years to become non-radioactive.

I don't want to come across as some kind of anti-EV evangelist and I therefore won't go into the specifics of how I know all this ........ but it's sufficient to say that as an environmentally-aware citizen of the world - I believed the glossy marketing BS, I believed I was truly doing a good thing, and I was foolishly sucked into the false hype. So I reached deep, deep into my pocket, and I tried it. An EV version of the same van I'd happily driven for the past 9 years. 18 months in - I've had to buy a new diesel van as well to earn a living, I still haven't been able to sell the immaculate, as-new EV version - not even for half of its initial purchase cost. Inside less than years, I'm more than $70,000 in the hole.

No thanks.

Kevin

Hello, I think we could be friends.
 
For me, it's not hate at all. I have a few cordless tools. Drills and drivers are basically a no-brainer....and yes, I have been doing this long enough to have been there with the original Makita 7.2v drills. There where no "drivers" back then, the 1/4" hex format was in it's infancy too.
I used a corded drill, 1/4" drive air-ratchet, or a 1/4"drive butterfly impact driver (also pneumatic) all in the place that an 18V LXT impact driver could do today.
Those same batteries work for the compact routers too. Cordless for laminate trimming is a godsend.
Of course there is the radio too, but that's it.
In a shop situation, connected to a CT, there is no advantage to cordless. If there was, I would do it. It's not like I'm shy about spending the money it takes to be efficient. That is the point of the router "collection" after all. (collection=insanity)
Other than a handful of trimmers, a couple of router tables, and 2 full-sized Milwaukee routers, all of my hand-held power tools are Festool. The hose and Plug-it get used every time.

The whole EV thing is 100% on point. You couldn't give me one.
 
squall_line said:
To be fair, the Zeta P2 has two things going for it from a cordless standpoint:

It does not actually REQUIRE extraction, as the blade action is rotational and self-clearing, unlike the plunge action of the Domino; it just makes a mess without extraction.

The battery platform for the Zeta P2 is CAS, which is multi-platform rather than strictly proprietary, although more likely to be supported in Europe than other parts of the world.

The trouble for us here in OZ is we get the bottom end of most gear the rest of the world enjoys, usually at a price premium to make your eyes water. Lamello a case in point, ignoring if I want the cordless version it's an extra $600 over the corded, it cost me around $3200 for the corded tool and accessory kit. If I want the 2 little 5mm alignment pins, that's nearly $70, same for the pressed sheetmetal marker gauge for the Divario connectors, that's not much below $400, so in both cases I made my own for maybe $5 total.

Even the connectors are a killer, a pack of 80 Clamex's are over $400, a carton of 300 Tenso's are $1150, luckily I can buy the aftermarket ones that are literally 1/10th the cost and in my testing perform absolutely identically, but for batteries though I'm at the mercy of the single solitary Australian distributor at nearly $500 for a single 5.5AH, and I've tried almost every major reseller in the States and Uk and they simply will not ship to OZ, so there must be an agreement blocking sales to OZ.
 
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