New Tools - NAONA?

[Dave Ronyak]

From the poll, 62% of FOG members are from the US.   Over 1/3 of the members of the members are from other parts of the world.    Notice I didn't say "North America".   

At issue is that there are TWO issues, not one.   First is availability.  Is it NAINA (North America) or not?   Second is communication.  How well is the information communicated in the US and elsewhere?

While we in North America receive Festool products later than other parts of the world, we in the United States are blessed (a word that I rarely use) by having an incredibly strong, proactive dealer network, an aggressive US marketing department (headed up by Shane), and a not-so-secret weapon - Christian Oltzscher.   

The quality of this entire network is based on the strong intelligence, ethics and business savvy of people like Bob, Timmy, Bill (two Bills actually), Ron, Joel, and Shane.   People with these qualities exist in other countries too.  Anthony from Australia comes to mind!   We, however, have Christian O.  IMO, it is his drive and vision that created the powerhouse team!   

When I first learned about Festool over two years ago, the base elements of the team were there but didn't appear cohesive.   There was little corporate advertising.   Service was excellent, but received little visibility other than word of mouth.   Festool USA was competing with its dealers; the dealers and Shane were out there, but working pretty much by themselves. 

Now where are we?   
- Shane has done an magnificent job with this rollout.   But who brought Shane on board to Festool USA and turned him loose to do his good stuff?   

- Like many of you, I have my favorite dealers.  But now we have additional options like Woodcraft and Rocker.  For me, it's great to have the opportunity run down to my local Woodcraft and grab a package of 80 grit Rubin on Sunday afternoon.  Hmmm...  I wonder who is the driving force in expanding that dealer network?

- You may not have noticed it, but FestoolUSA is no longer competing with it's dealers.   That reduces a lot of confusion for customers (I was VERY confused about that) and make the dealers happy.

With the falling dollar and slowing economy, life isn't perfect here in the US.   But at least we have a good "Christian" fellow on our side!   ;D

Regards,

Dan.

Excellent and highly accurate summary, Dan.  But I think you overlooked expressly stating another key - Matthew Schenker's creation of FOG (together with those members of FOG who helped him including yourself).  I would not have paid nearly as much attention to Festool products or purchased nearly as many as I now have absent FOG.  I also wonder about the demographics of USA compared to the rest of the world.  I have read comments on FOG that USA is not that significant a market for Festool compared to other locations.  You would have gotten the same answer from the German automobile companies had you asked them 30 to 40 years ago.  Today USA/NA is BMWs most significant market.  (My guess is that China will surpass USA in the future.)  How many members of FOG/USA purchasers of Festool products do so because 1) they want the best and 2) they can afford it?  I suspect it is a significant fraction in USA. 

Dave R.

 

[Dan Clark]

Dave,

The ONLY reason that I didn't include FOG (and Matthew) is that I think it applies to all countries.  Yes, 63% are from the US, but 37% come from outside the US.  This is truly an international forum. 

The issue lies in the country management.  US Festool management has taken advantage of vigorously taken advantage of FOG.  Other country management?  Nada!

Other country dealers like Anthony?  Absolutely!  Great dealer!  But have the countries leveraged the dealers?  Have they ensured that the dealers are meeting customers needs?  Have they aggressively dealt with dealer issues?  Nope!  (A certain country north of the US comes to mind!) 

I limited my comments to the differences.  All countries have access to FOG.  All countries could offer giveaways!  All countries could respond to user complaints and issues.  Do they?  Nope!  Does US management?  Oh yeah!  Does US management use this as a great two-way communication medium with customers?  Dumb question!  How about other countries?  Dumb question!

Matthew created FOG.  FOG is probably the single most successful product-specific forum that has ever existed.  It's UNIQUE!!!  FOG is responsible for many people from MANY countries buying Festool or expanding their collection. 

But who was smart enough to take advantage of the FOG opportunity?!?  Heck, I suspect that Christian took one look at FOG and said something like, "Well lookee there - a perfect mechanism to get and give customer feedback.  An awesome way of communicating with customers!" 

What is common?  FOG!  What is different?  Christian and the US team.  That's why I focused on them.

Regards,

Dan.

p.s., I think that there would be a lot of happy Festool customers - Non-US and US - if other country management showed up. 

p.p.s, I rest my case:http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=2692.0

 

[Eli]

All countries have access to FOG.  All countries could offer giveaways!  All countries could respond to user complaints and issues.  Do they?  Nope!  Does US management?  Oh yeah!  Does US management use this as a great two-way communication medium with customers?  Dumb question!  How about other countries?  Dumb question!

Actually, I totally agree with you, but in fact Anthony does offer giveaways to users on another forum (that Ideal Tools sponsors). The reason you don't see him here as much is because most of his customers are on another forum board. There are really only three or four guys from AU that come here regularly. Most of the AU specific complaints/issues he tackles over there.

 

[Dan Clark]

All countries have access to FOG.  All countries could offer giveaways!  All countries could respond to user complaints and issues.  Do they?  Nope!  Does US management?  Oh yeah!  Does US management use this as a great two-way communication medium with customers?  Dumb question!  How about other countries?  Dumb question!

Actually, I totally agree with you, but in fact Anthony does offer giveaways to users on another forum (that Ideal Tools sponsors). The reason you don't see him here as much is because most of his customers are on another forum board. There are really only three or four guys from AU that come here regularly. Most of the AU specific complaints/issues he tackles over there.

Eli,

Hi.  I'm confused about how Australia is organized.  I thought Ideal Tools was a dealer (aka distributor) and that Anthony was a representative from them.  As a dealer, whether Ideal Tools chooses to communicate through FOG or the Ubeut forums is up to them.  I assume that they resolve customer issues similar to US Dealers - directly with the customer.

This is not about Dealers - US or otherwise.  My point it that Festool Australia (or whatever arm of Festool Corporate that works with Australia) does NOT communicate actively with the customers. 

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Anthony]

Hi.  I'm confused about how Australia is organized.  I thought Ideal Tools was a dealer (aka distributor) and that Anthony was a representative from them.  As a dealer, whether Ideal Tools chooses to communicate through FOG or the Ubeut forums is up to them.  I assume that they resolve customer issues similar to US Dealers - directly with the customer.

This is not about Dealers - US or otherwise.  My point it that Festool Australia (or whatever arm of Festool Corporate that works with Australia) does NOT communicate actively with the customers. 

Regards,

Dan.

Hi Dan,

I only wish I was Festool AUS ;D. I am just one of many a Festool dealers in Oz.

 

[Dan Clark]

Hi.  I'm confused about how Australia is organized.  I thought Ideal Tools was a dealer (aka distributor) and that Anthony was a representative from them.  As a dealer, whether Ideal Tools chooses to communicate through FOG or the Ubeut forums is up to them.  I assume that they resolve customer issues similar to US Dealers - directly with the customer.

This is not about Dealers - US or otherwise.  My point it that Festool Australia (or whatever arm of Festool Corporate that works with Australia) does NOT communicate actively with the customers. 

Regards,

Dan.

Hi Dan,

I only wish I was Festool AUS ;D. I am just one of many a Festool dealers in Oz.

Anthony,

From my perspective, you are FIRST among many.  8)  Your posts on Ubeaut and your website provide a lot of added value to Festoolians.  And frustration, of course.  Dangling little gems like this CMS (http://www.idealtools.com.au/category3893_1.htm) under our NAINA noses does generate a certain amount of envy, you know.  ;D

I believe that many non-US Festoolians wished that their country management would take part in Festool user forums like (FOG and Ubeaut). 

Regards.

 

[graphex]

Just to drag this back to the computer discussion - I'm a software engineer, designer, and beginning woodworker. I've got high-end macs and high-end PCs. I've also got high-end Festool tools and, uh "high end" DeWalt tools. Just to subtly infer something here, my PC - which I'll admit costs less than my top of the line mac, and is very useful - is a certain shade of bright yellow...

As far as running a CNC machine with a mac, you could... but you'd be better off with a dedicated computer for the machine. In terms of creating files for a CNC machine, you've got plenty of options on OSX, Windows, or Linux. While I haven't done much CAD for a while now, my favorite line of CAD programs (from Ashlar Vellum) is made for either platform.

One place where the Festool=Apple analogy breaks down is that with Apple products, we get them first in the US!  ;D
(Oh, and Christian O is a lot cooler than Steve Jobs!)

 

[HowardH]

Matthew created FOG.  FOG is probably the single most successful product-specific forum that has ever existed.     

This is a fantastic site for sure but I'm also a Nikon user and their user group site, www.nikonians.org. rivals this site IMO.  It's been around for several years and has participants from around the world.  Both are about a high quality manufacturer and the level of energy and enthusiasm is on par with this site.  The parallels are remarkable with the same sort of comments about NAINA, what they call NAS (Nikon acquisition syndrome), new product rumors and rollout dates, service issues, etc.  However, one thing about this site that is different is that the manufacturer actually reads and cares about the comments made therein.  I have never seen a Nikon rep ask for comments from the members.  Both sites have ended up costing me many thousands of $$$.   

 

[dltflt]

I have made my last purchase because of this web site.  Keep up the the good work Matthew and thanks

 

[Dan Clark]

Matthew created FOG.  FOG is probably the single most successful product-specific forum that has ever existed.     

This is a fantastic site for sure but I'm also a Nikon user and their user group site, www.nikonians.org. rivals this site IMO.  It's been around for several years and has participants from around the world.  Both are about a high quality manufacturer and the level of energy and enthusiasm is on par with this site.  The parallels are remarkable with the same sort of comments about NAINA, what they call NAS (Nikon acquisition syndrome), new product rumors and rollout dates, service issues, etc.  However, one thing about this site that is different is that the manufacturer actually reads and cares about the comments made therein.  I have never seen a Nikon rep ask for comments from the members.  Both sites have ended up costing me many thousands of $$$.   

Howard,

I have only one thing to say... "D3"  Pant, pant!  Drooooollllll...  Can we spell D3 + 200-400!?! Maybe a 70-200 VR,  14-24, or maybe a 500mm VR (Dan goes into cardiac arrest!)  How about 11 frames per seconds.  Blazingly fast autofocus.  Ultra-low noise.  Awesome color.  And, usable images at ISO 25000 (not a typo).

Or course the downside is the price!  (Think 5 figures for D3 plus 200-400.)  Makes Festool look dirt cheap!  Maybe in another life.

Dan.

p.s., is the D3 good?  Take a look at this:http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=27061231http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=27033590http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=26952357http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=26934669http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=27040063

And finally these at up to 12,800 ISO:http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=27002698&q=12800&qf=m http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=26647291

p.p.s In case you're not impressed with the high ISO pics, consider this: the best you could get with my camera and almost all other cameras is a nice shade of black!

 

[graphex]

25,600 ISO??? holy @*%#

I wonder what a spinning TS-75 blade looks like at 1/8000 of a second.

I still wish people would us a longer shutter when showing the laser on the Kapex. I'm guessing it isn't a dashed line in real life? Actually, it is a spinning reflector, or a splitter or what?

Based on the way it looks like a dashed line in the videos, I'd guess it is a spinning mirror/prism. Anyone know?

 

[Eli]

The dashed line is because the laser is shooting through the blade guard. When you lower the saw to begin or check a cut, the blade guard retracts and the lines are solid.

 

[HowardH]

stop!  Stop!  Dont tell me anymore!  Just got the D200 about six months ago (of course the D300 came out a month later) and its all i'll ever need. Yea yea.   That's right.  Oh no!  The feeling is coming back.  NAS!  Hopefully it will pass. Good thing about festool is they dont come with a new product line every six months.  Its bad enough as it is.  BTW, I REALLY need the 18-200 VR very badly. Glad to see I'm not the only multi-hobby junkie!

 

[Dave Ronyak]

[
p.p.s In case you're not impressed with the high ISO pics, consider this: the best you could get with my camera and almost all other cameras is a nice shade of black!

Dan,

Those are good for starters.  How would you like to be able to discern a human hair at a couple of miles, maybe in low light.  That could be arranged for a few mil and a top security clearance.  (Half kidding with smiles)

Dave R.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Hi.  I'm confused about how Australia is organized.   I thought Ideal Tools was a dealer (aka distributor) and that Anthony was a representative from them.  As a dealer, whether Ideal Tools chooses to communicate through FOG or the Ubeut forums is up to them.  I assume that they resolve customer issues similar to US Dealers - directly with the customer.

This is not about Dealers - US or otherwise.   My point it that Festool Australia (or whatever arm of Festool Corporate that works with Australia) does NOT communicate actively with the customers. 

Regards,

Dan.

Hi Dan,

I only wish I was Festool AUS ;D. I am just one of many a Festool dealers in Oz.

Anthony,

From my perspective, you are FIRST among many.  8)  Your posts on Ubeaut and your website provide a lot of added value to Festoolians.  And frustration, of course.  Dangling little gems like this CMS (http://www.idealtools.com.au/category3893_1.htm) under our NAINA noses does generate a certain amount of envy, you know.   ;D

I believe that many non-US Festoolians wished that their country management would take part in Festool user forums like (FOG and Ubeaut). 

Regards.

I would like to add that I for one have benefitted from Anthony's posts and email notices.  It was through them that I first learned of the RO 125 getting an edge guard.  When I purchased mine in USA in Fall 2005, there was no edge guard.  When I probed FestoolUSA based on after seeing what was posted through Ideal Tools, I learned of the difference in housings, and eventually got a replacement housing and edge guard for my RO 125.  So I would like to thank Anthony and Ideal Tools for their contributions, albeit some of them are oblique and frustrating due to NAINA.

Dave R.

 

[tallgrass]

i have read good things about reliable tools but could not get a e-mail responses about cost and shipping , i tried several times but not one response. thoughts?

 

[Anthony]

I would like to add that I for one have benefitted from Anthony's posts and email notices.  It was through them that I first learned of the RO 125 getting an edge guard.  When I purchased mine in USA in Fall 2005, there was no edge guard.  When I probed FestoolUSA based on after seeing what was posted through Ideal Tools, I learned of the difference in housings, and eventually got a replacement housing and edge guard for my RO 125.  So I would like to thank Anthony and Ideal Tools for their contributions, albeit some of them are oblique and frustrating due to NAINA.

Dave R.

Thanks Dave. Your post made me laugh before I got to the end of your sentence "...due to NINA". I was thinking my wife would agree with you that some of my contributions are oblique and frustrating... then I finished the sentence and realised you are talking about power tools.

If its any consolation, I would say NA might be getting their hands on the MFT3 before we will see it here in Oz.

Back to Dan's comments. I would not mind some direct input into this forum by Festool Aus as well, but there can be too much of a good thing. I think there is a nice balance here at the moment with all parties doing a fine job. A handful of dealers plus Festool USA seems to be working out okay. We wouldn't want the number of people selling the tools to overwhelm those owning the tools. It is a FOG after all.

 

[Dave Rudy]

If its any consolation, I would say NA might be getting their hands on the MFT3 before we will see it here in Oz.

AHA, take that all you outback expatriots!

 

[Eli]

Your taunt would have teeth if I was actually interested in the MFT3. But I find that since I have a rear extension for the CMS, I have no need for a table at the same height.  ;D ;D ;D

 

[Dave Rudy]

You win!  I give up.