New Woodpeckers One Time Tool...

[darita]

Woodpeckers has a new Hole Boring Jig for Festool table tops.  Just wondering if it might be a good idea to get one?  They do make good, precision stuff.

 

[Birdhunter]

Being a Woodpecker product, it probably is well design and constructed. Unless I need a bigger top, I’ll just buy a ready made Festool top.

 

[Timtool]

It works with a 1/2 inch cutter and bushings for 20mm or 3/4th holes. That's a great option but I wouldn't want to rely on drilling each hole with a half inch cutter and having to move around the router.
It seems far more precise to drill them with a 20mm or 3/4th cutter that you just push down in one go, I have always done it this way. It's easy and accurate.
I'm guessing that if your router isn't top of the line or jitters, that a play could appear, which would increase exponentially as you reposition the jig in holes that are less and less accurate.

 

[Klemm]

if accuracy is important you may want to take a really close look at the Parf Guide System, 20mm Centrotec Carbide cutter is included.
Look for details https:
//tsoproducts.com/workholding-accessories/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system/
Review the videos by Peter Parfitt and by Dave Stanton demonstrating this system.

[member=10829]Timtool[/member]  comment about repeatable accuracy as you reposition a phenolic plate around is something to keep in mind. When you see what is included with each system, price is not a differentiator.

Hans

 

[bertv]

Mind you: if you are using metric routers you will have to invest in a 1/2 inch collet, which is quite an expense. Woodpeckers sometimes offer metric equivalents of their (One Time) tools, but not for this one.

IMO the Parf system is a better solution. But that's just my 2 cts.

 

[Tony from Pandora]

Collet size shouldn't matter, should it?  I'm not a metric user, but I'd assume someone makes a 1/2" router bit with an 8mm shank (if that is the metric size in question).  And it's the router bit size in reference to the bushing that determines accuracy, not the collet size... correct?  You could technically use a 1/2" router bit with a 1/4" shank as long as the bushing fit.  I wouldn't, but in theory, that should work, shouldn't it?

 

[bertv]

The bushings that are part of the product have to be used with a 1/2 inch cutter. Those are very hard to find for a 12 mm collet, and even more for 8 mm collets (I did a search w four suppliers in Europe and did not find any). The cutter is NOT included in this set, so that too is an additional cost…

 

[HarveyWildes]

if accuracy is important you may want to take a really close look at the Parf Guide System, 20mm Centrotec Carbide cutter is included.
...

My experience with the Parf Guide System is that it is so accurate it's spooky (Halloween is coming ), and I heard a lot about the accuracy before buying it myself.  The problem with the OTT approach is that it makes it hard to get feedback from the early adopters on just how accurate it is before you commit to buy one.  One the other hand, if you need 3/4" holes instead of 20m holes, and 96mm centers are OK, it might be interesting (instead of boring...  I didn't just really cave into that obvious pun, did I?).

 

[Tony from Pandora]

The bushings that are part of the product have to be used with a 1/2 inch cutter. Those are very hard to find for a 12 mm collet, and even more for 8 mm collets (I did a search w four suppliers in Europe and did not find any). The cutter is NOT included in this set, so that too is an additional cost…

Ahh... I see what you're saying... it's an either/or thing... Make the system use a bit that's more universally accepted, or include bushings that would enable a wider range of bits to use.
My American arrogance assumed a 1/2" bit would be in nearly every router user's arsenal and it was only the shank size that was the issue.  I didn't realize how hard 1/2" was to come by in metric shanks.

I'd be willing to bet that if this OTT does well at all, the next go-round would include a metric equivalent

 

[Stone Message]

if accuracy is important you may want to take a really close look at the Parf Guide System, 20mm Centrotec Carbide cutter is included.
...

My experience with the Parf Guide System is that it is so accurate it's spooky (Halloween is coming ), and I heard a lot about the accuracy before buying it myself.  The problem with the OTT approach is that it makes it hard to get feedback from the early adopters on just how accurate it is before you commit to buy one.  One the other hand, if you need 3/4" holes instead of 20m holes, and 96mm centers are OK, it might be interesting (instead of boring...  I didn't just really cave into that obvious pun, did I?).

The proof for any of these systems is to do a 4 (or 5) cut test. It has to be done on video in one take. I have done that.

The problem with this type of jig is that a minor error in the first set of holes becomes a bigger and bigger error as the pattern progresses. Any engineer will tell you that but every woodworker knows that when you are cutting a load of pieces of wood of the same length that you always use the first one cut to mark the next and never ever use the most recent one for marking.

I saw this jig in the sales and dealer area ( the OP was Dan Clermont) and as he is a dealer trying to sell the Woodpecker product I respected his pitch (as it was in the Sales and Dealer area) and did not post anything there.

I have yet to see anyone produce a genuine 4 cut test video of any product that can come anywhere near the accuracy of the PGS.

Peter

 

[Cheese]

I didn't realize how hard 1/2" was to come by in metric shanks.

I checked a couple of router bit catalogs (CMT European & Onsrud) that offer metric sized bits and they offer metric sized cutters with imperial sized shafts, but not the other way around. The closest ones were several CMT's that were 12.7mm (1/2") in diameter, but they also had 12.7mm shafts.

 

[Svar]

The problem with this type of jig is that a minor error in the first set of holes becomes a bigger and bigger error as the pattern progresses.

I agree on error propagation. That template is a bit small. about 6 x 7 holes would be good.

I have yet to see anyone produce a genuine 4 cut test video of any product that can come anywhere near the accuracy of the PGS.

A copy of the original MFT top with a pattern bit will match that accuracy.

 

[Svar]

It seems far more precise to drill them with a 20mm or 3/4th cutter that you just push down in one go, I have always done it this way. It's easy and accurate.

With plunge cutting it is hard to avoid tear out on the opposite side.
However, they could always include an extra bushing that fits precisely in the template hole to allow for plunge cutting if one chooses.

 

[Timtool]

The bushings that are part of the product have to be used with a 1/2 inch cutter. Those are very hard to find for a 12 mm collet, and even more for 8 mm collets (I did a search w four suppliers in Europe and did not find any). The cutter is NOT included in this set, so that too is an additional cost…

I have so many 12,7mm(1/2) router bits with 8mm shaft, that I don't know what to do with them. Came with the first used routers I bought. Probably a thing of the past but it seems that as some point it was a very common bit.

I would be more worried about the guide bushing from the jig, you'd likely need a universal adapter plate to fit it on a European router here.

 

[Stone Message]

....
A copy of the original MFT top with a pattern bit will match that accuracy.

Festool make no claims whatsoever about the accuracy of the 20 mm hole spacing on the MFT3. The also do not give any tolerance for the hole size. The MFT3 was designed as a portable work holding bench with a separate system for track saw cutting that does not rely on the accuracy of the hole pattern. There is plenty of documentary evidence that indicates that the hole size of the MFT3 may vary.

Peter

 

[jeh]

What is the opening size on the plate. If it were sized to hold a template guide of the appropriate size or included a custom template guide then a 20mm bit could be used for straight plunges greatly simplifying the job. As designed I do believe the spiral cut bit will work nicely, but sometimes simplicity is better.

 

[Svar]

....
A copy of the original MFT top with a pattern bit will match that accuracy.

Festool make no claims whatsoever about the accuracy of the 20 mm hole spacing on the MFT3.

Does it matter what they not claim? It happen to be made on CNC or some line boring machine or whatever. Intended or not the holes are equidistant.

 

[Stone Message]

Does it matter what they not claim? It happen to be made on CNC or some line boring machine or whatever. Intended or not the holes are equidistant.

Yes it does matter. If it is not in the specification for the sub contractor making the MFT3 tops then they do not need to worry about accuracy. Everyone who has spent a few years working with CNC machines will know that tools wear and they need tweaking to keep accuracy. If there is no obligation on the sub contractor then why should he waste money making something more accurate than specified?

I suggest that you try the 4 (or 5) cut test on an MFT3 !

Peter

 

[Svar]

Does it matter what they not claim? It happen to be made on CNC or some line boring machine or whatever. Intended or not the holes are equidistant.

If it is not in the specification for the sub contractor making the MFT3 tops then they do not need to worry about accuracy.

You don't know that.
There is a difference between having no specs and not telling them to you. How would they do QC on it without documentation?
Upon my request FT did not divulge their specs for blade runout. This does not mean they don't have one.
BTW FT will not release their rail straightness specs either. Does it mean the extruder shouldn't worry about it and just do whatever they want?

 

[J0hn]

Looks like there are a couple of different threads going on this subject.

I posted some comments with pics in this thread on how I do it
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festo...tool-boring-jig-for-mfts/msg526744/#msg526744