New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)

[Frank-Jan]

When installing the fence, is there calibration required? (Just drawing a line before unscrewing the original fence, or clamping a straightedge to the table, or does it register in some way that it can't go wrong).

I'm asking this because my fence has arrived at customs, and I don't know how long that will take, but my saw is also an older model, that's affected by the callback and has to be sent in for repair somewhere in february, and I'm going to return it to stock before sending it in.

 

[Colliflower]

When installing the fence, is there calibration required? (Just drawing a line before unscrewing the original fence, or clamping a straightedge to the table, or does it register in some way that it can't go wrong).

I'm asking this because my fence has arrived at customs, and I don't know how long that will take, but my saw is also an older model, that's affected by the callback and has to be sent in for repair somewhere in february, and I'm going to return it to stock before sending it in.

Hello, Frank-Jan.
Yes, I think it's best to make sure the fence is nice and square with the blade, so there will likely be a bit of adjustment. And yes, it would be a good idea to draw a line so that when your Kapex comes back, you can put the Cube right back in place. That would make it easiest. Glad to hear it's almost to you!

 

[Frank-Jan]

My fence arrived last Wednesday, wrapped in a festive moose design.
View attachment 1View attachment 2
I was very excited and decided I would install it that day, because I had to install baseboard on Thursday, and I could test it out right away.
It felt quite substantial, especially after feeling the original part, so I went to grab the kitchenscale and check the weigths. (518g for the festool vs 1251g for the colliflower fence)
View attachment 3View attachment 4
I noticed the stop bolts for preventing the sliding fences to detach work differently, on the standard fence you need to screw the little bolts all the way down, so the tab on the fences clear them, on the colliflower fence, you need to unscrew them a bit, so the tab clears them underneath the head.

I was a bit in a rush, and the circumstances at the time of the transplant weren’t ideal. (my temporary “shop” is a huge mess, and I didn’t  have the most stable flat surface I should have)

The sliding fences wouldn’t slide easily onto the new fence, but after I loosened the bolt for the fenceclamp and making sure there wasn’t any debris in the channels with a few cottonswabs, and the application of some lube I got them on, and dial the bolts back so the fenceclamp would apply enough pressure to keep the fence from sliding.

I made a few cuts and the miters didn’t turn out great, which was caused by the sliding fences tilting to the back.
View attachment 5View attachment 6View attachment 7

My kapex is an early version (2007) and one of the issues the saws had back then was that the sliding fences could get stuck, which happened to my saw when it was still in warranty, and I sent it in for a repair.

I did check ekat if the partnumbers for  the slidingfences had changed over the change in partnumbers for the saw, but that doesn’t seem the case.

I think it will work if I order them new. (maybe they have done some machining on the fence and/or the sliding fences as part of the repair).

Since I needed my saw the next morning I reinstalled the original fence; and decided that I will order a new set of sliding fences, and try it again after my saw has been sent back for the safety issue repair.

By then I also have a bit more space, and I 'll have a bunch of extra cubes at the ready to play with. (if the cube isn't square, and you turn it around for making a bevel cut for example, it won't be flush with the fence, or you would have to dial in the setscrews everytime you flip it)

I was a bit dissapointed I couldn't use it straight away, but I am looking forward to have it up and running next month.

 

[Mini Me]

I am going to take back what I wrote previously and that is the Zero Block does affect the dust extraction at least on my saw. I finally got the saw back in service today after a minor problem and cutting the block produced heaps of dust not picked up by the extraction which I did not notice before when I did it on the first attempt. Also the Bosch Glide as I discovered on the first attempt cuts the block offset to the left of centre in the fence opening. That is in itself not too much of an issue but what it does not allow is a 45 degree cut the left as all that will do is cut the corner off the block because of the offset in the block and that  does means a separate block would have to be used for angle cuts. I am not convinced the Bosch Glide is a good candidate for the block idea, it works well but the dust extraction is definitely an issue as I initially thought it would be. Where the Kapex extracts via the guard all other saws extract via the dust being ejected to the back of the saw and this is always a problem. I have spent too many years in and around dust extraction advising and selling equipment to recommend this to anyone but a Kapex owner and for all I know the Kapex my well be affected as well but my gut feeling says if it is it won't be as bad as other saws.

 

[Colliflower]

My fence arrived last Wednesday, wrapped in a festive moose design.
View attachment 1View attachment 2
I was very excited and decided I would install it that day, because I had to install baseboard on Thursday, and I could test it out right away.
It felt quite substantial, especially after feeling the original part, so I went to grab the kitchenscale and check the weigths. (518g for the festool vs 1251g for the colliflower fence)
View attachment 3View attachment 4
I noticed the stop bolts for preventing the sliding fences to detach work differently, on the standard fence you need to screw the little bolts all the way down, so the tab on the fences clear them, on the colliflower fence, you need to unscrew them a bit, so the tab clears them underneath the head.

I was a bit in a rush, and the circumstances at the time of the transplant weren’t ideal. (my temporary “shop” is a huge mess, and I didn’t  have the most stable flat surface I should have)

The sliding fences wouldn’t slide easily onto the new fence, but after I loosened the bolt for the fenceclamp and making sure there wasn’t any debris in the channels with a few cottonswabs, and the application of some lube I got them on, and dial the bolts back so the fenceclamp would apply enough pressure to keep the fence from sliding.

I made a few cuts and the miters didn’t turn out great, which was caused by the sliding fences tilting to the back.
View attachment 5View attachment 6View attachment 7

My kapex is an early version (2007) and one of the issues the saws had back then was that the sliding fences could get stuck, which happened to my saw when it was still in warranty, and I sent it in for a repair.

I did check ekat if the partnumbers for  the slidingfences had changed over the change in partnumbers for the saw, but that doesn’t seem the case.

I think it will work if I order them new. (maybe they have done some machining on the fence and/or the sliding fences as part of the repair).

Since I needed my saw the next morning I reinstalled the original fence; and decided that I will order a new set of sliding fences, and try it again after my saw has been sent back for the safety issue repair.

By then I also have a bit more space, and I 'll have a bunch of extra cubes at the ready to play with. (if the cube isn't square, and you turn it around for making a bevel cut for example, it won't be flush with the fence, or you would have to dial in the setscrews everytime you flip it)

I was a bit dissapointed I couldn't use it straight away, but I am looking forward to have it up and running next month.

Hi, Frank. Sorry I haven't been on here for a while.
Yes, we have made fixes to the fence slanting slightly back. The irony is that in order to avoid too much slop in the fence, we made the tolerances super tight so that the fit would be as "perfect" as possible. This made for a too tight of a fit, as you mentioned, and any burr/anything would affect a smooth slide. Both the tilt back and the too tight fit have been fixed.
I'm going to send you another so that you can report back on the fixes. (Even though it is shipping to Europe!)
I'm sorry that yours isn't perfect. As customer suggestions came back, we were quick to modify to make better. Like all Colliflower products, our goal is to have them be the BEST. We believe in this product 10000%, and we believe it's the future of ZC fencing, so our goal is to make it perfect. Thanks for your patience, and I'll get the new version in the mail to you soon.

 

[Colliflower]

I am going to take back what I wrote previously and that is the Zero Block does affect the dust extraction at least on my saw. I finally got the saw back in service today after a minor problem and cutting the block produced heaps of dust not picked up by the extraction which I did not notice before when I did it on the first attempt. Also the Bosch Glide as I discovered on the first attempt cuts the block offset to the left of centre in the fence opening. That is in itself not too much of an issue but what it does not allow is a 45 degree cut the left as all that will do is cut the corner off the block because of the offset in the block and that  does means a separate block would have to be used for angle cuts. I am not convinced the Bosch Glide is a good candidate for the block idea, it works well but the dust extraction is definitely an issue as I initially thought it would be. Where the Kapex extracts via the guard all other saws extract via the dust being ejected to the back of the saw and this is always a problem. I have spent too many years in and around dust extraction advising and selling equipment to recommend this to anyone but a Kapex owner and for all I know the Kapex my well be affected as well but my gut feeling says if it is it won't be as bad as other saws.

Greetings, Mini Me.
I'm sure many will keep in mind that your version is one you made and not a Colliflower Cube. I'm sure you've done a great job with it, but I'm confident our design can consider the angled cuts and dust extraction. As I've reported, I'm very happy with the dust extraction with the Cube on my Kapex.
The saw you experimented on, the Bosch Glide, is a fantastic saw, and since I see the Cube as being the future of ZC fencing, we will work hard to make it the best for every saw. That is the goal!

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
....since I see the Cube as being the future of ZC fencing, we will work hard to make it the best for every saw. That is the goal!

I like this attitude. Give your conviction, you should consider contacting Festool (and/or other major miter saw manufacturers) to see if they're interested in using or adapting your design for their future fences. For example, SawStop should use your ZCI design in their pricey ZCIs.

 

[Colliflower]

Snip.
....since I see the Cube as being the future of ZC fencing, we will work hard to make it the best for every saw. That is the goal!

I like this attitude. Give your conviction, you should consider contacting Festool (and/or other major miter saw manufacturers) to see if they're interested in using or adapting your design for their future fences. For example, SawStop should use your ZCI design in their pricey ZCIs.

Thanks, Chuck. You know, many years back I was in talks with the SawStop owner & founder about making the SS ZCI for them. When we got down to numbers, he basically laughed at what I needed to make them for him. At that time he got them made in Taiwan, so they were made for cheap. This all was after he'd told me I was infringing on his patent(s), so I had to change the design completely after not making an agreement. (The original design used the OEM locking handle and locking screws, with our replaceable insert design.) Who knows if I'll ever approach Festool about it.
And thanks for your input on the Cube. Yes, I greatly appreciate this design & look forward to it gaining more traction. It's kind of hard to devote lots of time on it when I'm so busy with other things! But as with all else, we want it to be perfect for the customer so will take all feedback to make it the best.

 

[Frank-Jan]

Hi, Frank. Sorry I haven't been on here for a while.
Yes, we have made fixes to the fence slanting slightly back. The irony is that in order to avoid too much slop in the fence, we made the tolerances super tight so that the fit would be as "perfect" as possible. This made for a too tight of a fit, as you mentioned, and any burr/anything would affect a smooth slide. Both the tilt back and the too tight fit have been fixed.
I'm going to send you another so that you can report back on the fixes. (Even though it is shipping to Europe!)
I'm sorry that yours isn't perfect. As customer suggestions came back, we were quick to modify to make better. Like all Colliflower products, our goal is to have them be the BEST. We believe in this product 10000%, and we believe it's the future of ZC fencing, so our goal is to make it perfect. Thanks for your patience, and I'll get the new version in the mail to you soon.

Hi Jack,
Thanks, I was about to order the new sliding fences today, but I'll put a hold on that, maybe they will be the same als the old fences. I have been contacted by a lady from festool Germany, and they will do the repair on my saw the first week of march.
I too believe you nailed it with this idea, I stumbled upon an old picture I took for the "I wish festool made this" section back when my kapex was still new and shiny, with the zero clearance cup that came with my makita ls1013. That one wasn't great because it had to be fixed with 2 akwardly placed screws, and couldn't be used for bevelcuts.
View attachment 1

 

[Twst]

Excited to say I have a cube and zci on the way!  [smile]
Looking forward to upgrade the cut quality further, but most of all maybe make the saw safer and less chance of throwing small pieces.

There is little feedback and reviews to be found, are there any long time users?

 

[Frank-Jan]

I'm very happy about the zci, I'm still using the first two inserts, (one for square and one for beveled cuts). There's no way I would have kept swapping the inserts if I had to unscrew the holder everytime.

I haven't received the replacement cubefence yet, so I can't comment on that.
(It actually slipped my mind, I did not contact Jack to remind him, and I was planning to test the fence I have with the upperfences of the latest model (the son of a guy we work with sometimes has one, but it was weird to visit someone I hardly know due to covid19, so I forgot about it)

 

[WestMan_Canada]

BUMP
I have experienced this same problem on a 120 EB (June 2022).  Happy to discuss further...

 

[sibejan]

I haven't received the replacement cubefence yet, so I can't comment on that.
(It actually slipped my mind, I did not contact Jack to remind him, and I was planning to test the fence I have with the upperfences of the latest model (the son of a guy we work with sometimes has one, but it was weird to visit someone I hardly know due to covid19, so I forgot about it)

Did you receive the replacement in the end?

And how is your experience, and how are other users?

I consider buying one before sunday, since my local dealer gereedschappro has a 20% discount temporarely.

 

[juss1]

Curious on your thoughts on the fence after some use?  Easy to install?  How well does it perform?  Dust Collection performance?